CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I have read an interview with Jonathan's father, but was wondering if there have been any comments from Ellen's family.

In a very early news story Ellen's brother was quoted or interviewed saying something like he expressed grief and confusion over the incident and said her family would appreciate privacy as they wait for LE to do their work. I also believe there was a photo of him in Mariposa. This is from an old lady's memory.

 

[Countem]

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind linking that article? Thank you either way.

I am not the OP, but here is the link to the interview with the father’s family.

Father of British software developer found dead with family says family still waiting for autopsy | Daily Mail Online

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

from the San Francisco Chronicle, Aug 28. Article on Gerrish-Chung family, Philip Kreycik, and climate change: The Family On a Hike. The Runner Who Never Came Home. Are Their Deaths Tied to Climate Change?

“Over the last 20 years, every year is hotter than the last, more or less,” Basu said. [Rupa Basu, the chief air and climate epidemiologist with California’s Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment.] “That’s part of the reason from a health standpoint why we need to be proactive because it’s changing so quickly.”

Heat causes more reported deaths annually on average in the United States than any other weather hazard, according to the report. And that’s despite heat illness and death being “severely underreported,” Basu said.

In 2006, a heat wave in California led to at least 140 deaths between July 15 and Aug. 1, more than 1,100 hospitalizations and about 16,000 emergency room visits."

 

[Countem]

IMO we’re too much in the weeds of who is saying what in this segment, Is this the journal speaking or the original journalist! Are these direct quotes from the sheriff or summaries?

In my post that you are quoting, it is the original journalist’s personal Twitter account conveying information from his personal discussions with the sheriff.

In one of his tweets, the journalist confirms that he spoke with the sheriff when reporting that investigators “believe the family hiked most of a grueling 8.5-mile loop — including 5 miles of steep southern exposure trail with little to no trees or shade in 103 to 109 degree heat — before succumbing on the return to their truck on a steep switchback” as of August 26, 2021.

Tweet: https://twitter.com/mgafni/status/1431004944681684994?s=20

Article: Investigators have ruled out 2 causes of death in case of Mariposa family, but still have no answers

But the sheriff was also suggesting early that this might be a criminal matter, which doesn’t seem to be on the table now. Note, too, “belief at the time”, per the journalist, as you are quoting.

Respectfully, I will emphasize the word “early” in your comment. Early on, before evidence was gathered, all manners of death were on the table. Regardless, my original post was about the hiking path that the family took, not their manner of death and, as mentioned above, the sheriff now is reporting a certain path taken by the family as reported by the San Francisco Chronicle.

I was the one that added “belief at the time,” not the journalist. (I did not include quotes around that phrase in my original post.) I was just covering my bases.

Also, the sheriff here, if this is being reported correctly, is contradicting the fact that his instinct and priority was to send SAR and the helicopter to the switchbacks, and not to the ORV trail, or down to the river….

One’s initial instinct and what one determines after gathering and interpreting evidence are two completely separate things. We also do not know for certain what other areas were being searched between 2 a.m. (when the truck was found) and 11 a.m. (when the bodies were found), and there could have been searchers going down other routes, as well. MOO.

Source for timeframes: 'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail

 

[MntnHiker]

So, I'm assuming since they have mentioned testing the little bit of water left in the hydration bladder that they would have also mentioned testing water in bottles they had with them, right? So since that wasn't mentioned, they likely (at the time of death) just had this bladder for water?

I find this very odd. A bladder like this is great for the person wearing it. But what about the other spouse, dog, and child? Like other hikers have commented already, it is very difficult, time-consuming and annoying to get water out of it to pour into anything. Maybe his spouse just drank out of his straw too, but the baby and dog couldn't have.

When we go hiking with our dog (we don't have children), we bring actual water bottles and a little pop-up bowl for her to pour water into. If we are both hiking, we either each carry our own hydration bladder OR we carry actual bottles as well and one of us just drinks out of the bottles.

All this to say, I wonder if they DID have a bottle with them and it got lost at some point on their hike which maybe exacerbated the heat situation. Did they have it out to drink from it, it fell and toppled over the side of a cliff? That would also mean getting water to the baby and dog would be a lot harder. MOO

 

[Tink60]

Hi Tink,

Somewhere on the previous thread I posted a link illustrating that lightning strikes do not always leave a trace, whether visible or internal.

Oops! I better go back and read- thanks!

 

[nao]

I ran a temp of a 105+ for 3 or 4 days. My house mates found me on the floor and took me to emergency....they said didn't have to wait Dr's took me in right away. I was apparently awake and conscious.. Given an ice bath and then tyed to the bed...I remember nothing for about a week. Moo ...with heat stroke all logic would be gone.

 

[Ruthbullock]

So, I'm assuming since they have mentioned testing the little bit of water left in the hydration bladder that they would have also mentioned testing water in bottles they had with them, right? So since that wasn't mentioned, they likely (at the time of death) just had this bladder for water?

I find this very odd. A bladder like this is great for the person wearing it. But what about the other spouse, dog, and child? Like other hikers have commented already, it is very difficult, time-consuming and annoying to get water out of it to pour into anything. Maybe his spouse just drank out of his straw too, but the baby and dog couldn't have.

When we go hiking with our dog (we don't have children), we bring actual water bottles and a little pop-up bowl for her to pour water into. If we are both hiking, we either each carry our own hydration bladder OR we carry actual bottles as well and one of us just drinks out of the bottles.

All this to say, I wonder if they DID have a bottle with them and it got lost at some point on their hike which maybe exacerbated the heat situation. Did they have it out to drink from it, it fell and toppled over the side of a cliff? That would also mean getting water to the baby and dog would be a lot harder. MOO

If the baby was breastfeeding, they wouldn’t need any water (whilst it’s fine to give a baby water, there is no real need). We sometimes decant water from our own packs for our dog, but also sometimes take separate bottles- so that doesn’t worry me. However the breed of dog an Akita cross whilst overly energetic and doesn’t tire, can’t cope with heat at all well. IMO the dog went first and triggered a chain of events as they tried to rescue it, rather than leaving it in situ.

 

[Sunny Day]

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind linking that article? Thank you either way.

Father of British software developer found dead with family says family still waiting for autopsy | Daily Mail Online

 

[RedHaus]

Ahhh, thank you. I wasn't sure if it was a technical hiking term or a mountainous thing.
Thanks for clearing it up.

Well actually, @annpats. I was thinking more about why I used the term "cut off" to describe access I might be looking for and use, or perhaps JG and EC were looking for and used IF they had been seeking a mine to explore. I think the reason I said "cut off" vs. trail, path, etc., is from my experience access to mines is often not a marked trail or even a well used trail. It may even require some bush-whacking to get to the mine you seek. So when I said "cut-off", I was perhaps distinguishing a possibly well hidden access route to a mine that may almost not appear as a path per se. I may be making much more of this than I need to, but I thought I'd revisit my answer to you.

 

[NoSI]

Hi All,

Been following this thread closely, but not posting much. Considering everything, I do feel that this has to be heat related. It just makes the most sense.

I found this article very interesting - Deadly Degrees: Why Heat Waves Kill So Quickly | Live Science).

Here are some highlights:

The medical term for excessive body heat is hyperthermia. The first phase is heat exhaustion, a condition marked by heavy sweat, nausea, vomiting and even fainting. The pulse races, and the skin goes clammy. Muscle cramping can be an early sign of heat exhaustion. Heat exhaustion can be reversed by moving to a cool location, loosening clothing and applying cool, wet washcloths to the body. But when people with heat exhaustion can't find relief, they can quickly advance to heat stroke. This condition happens when a person's core body temperature rises above 104 degrees F (40 degrees C).

In heat stroke, sweating stops and the skin becomes dry and flushed. The pulse is rapid. The person becomes delirious and may pass out. When trying to compensate for extreme heat, the body dilates the blood vessels in the skin in an attempt to cool the blood. To do this, the body has to constrict the blood vessels in the gut. The reduced blood flow to the gut increases the permeability between the cells that normally keep gut contents in, and toxins can leak into the blood, according to a book chapter in the textbook Wilderness Medicine (Mosby, 2011). These leaky toxins trigger a massive inflammatory response in the body, so massive that the attempt to fight off the toxins damages the body's own tissues and organs. It can be hard to tell what damage is caused directly by heat and what is caused by the secondary effects of toxins, according to Wilderness Medicine. Muscle cells break down, spilling their contents into the bloodstream and overloading the kidneys, which in turn start to fail, a condition called rhabdomyolysis. Proteins in the spleen start to clump as a direct result of heat; they're essentially cooked. The blood-brain barrier that normally keeps pathogens out of the brain becomes more permeable, allowing dangerous substances into the brain. Autopsies of people killed by heat stroke often reveal microhemorrhages (tiny strokes) and swelling, and 30 percent of heat stroke survivors experience permanent damage in brain function, according to Wilderness Medicine. Part of the insidiousness of heat-related deaths is how quickly they can happen. As many as 10 percent of people who experience heat stroke die, according to the American Association of Family Physicians (AAFP). Heat exhaustion requires immediate medical treatment and rapid cooling. In the case of a hiker on a trail, there may not be time to get to a spot that's cool enough to reverse the damage.

As per the CDC: Heat stroke occurs when the body’s temperature rises rapidly, the sweating mechanism fails, and the body is unable to cool down. When heat stroke occurs, the body temperature can rise to 106°F or higher within 10 to 15 minutes. Symptoms of heat stroke include: Confusion, altered mental status, slurred speech; Loss of consciousness (coma); Hot, dry skin or profuse sweating; Seizures; Very high body temperature. It is fatal if treatment is delayed (for more information please see: Heat Stress Related Illness | NIOSH | CDC).

 

[RedHaus]

Public content created by the Mariposa Trail group for their/volunteers use. Be sure to also scroll all the way down and check mark, "trail conditions and needs." www.MariposaTrails.org - Google My Maps

RSBM
Thank you @JustReading01. I found this description of Point 17 on the Savage-Lundy trail interesting. It makes me wonder whether the trail was actually harder to navigate than we might imagine given the emergence of vegetation regrowth on the trail itself. Another reason perhaps the increase in the family's core body temperatures was accelerated - if they had to navigate around brush all along the trail. It just so happens that Point 17 appears to be very close to where they were found.

 

[GatorFL]

So, I'm assuming since they have mentioned testing the little bit of water left in the hydration bladder that they would have also mentioned testing water in bottles they had with them, right? So since that wasn't mentioned, they likely (at the time of death) just had this bladder for water?

I find this very odd. A bladder like this is great for the person wearing it. But what about the other spouse, dog, and child? Like other hikers have commented already, it is very difficult, time-consuming and annoying to get water out of it to pour into anything. Maybe his spouse just drank out of his straw too, but the baby and dog couldn't have.

When we go hiking with our dog (we don't have children), we bring actual water bottles and a little pop-up bowl for her to pour water into. If we are both hiking, we either each carry our own hydration bladder OR we carry actual bottles as well and one of us just drinks out of the bottles.

All this to say, I wonder if they DID have a bottle with them and it got lost at some point on their hike which maybe exacerbated the heat situation. Did they have it out to drink from it, it fell and toppled over the side of a cliff? That would also mean getting water to the baby and dog would be a lot harder. MOO

ITA, I find it odd no bottles were found, either for the baby or the dog.

 

[RedHaus]

Agree... There are only 3 scenarios>>>1) They initially took Hite Cove for the full loop or 2) They attempted a down and back on the Savage Lundy 3) They aborted a counter clock wise loop (going down Savage Lundy for the loop) and turned BACK up Savage Lundy. One thing we DO KNOW>>They were going BACK UP Savage Lundy when they perished.

BBM

I do think it is important for any investigation to tease out the path the family took and how far they got, if at all possible, because that information in conjunction with other information such as the provisions and equipment they had on hand and where they were found deceased, could help inform a cause of death and why.

But I realize with our limited information it may not be something we WS'ers can solve for. That said, I do think we have plausible scenarios as you accurately, IMO, outlined in your post, @rahod1. However, I do question your conclusion that we know the family was going back up the SL trail. I am not sure that is true.

We think, at least I think, they were heading back up the SL trail. And the probability they were going back up may be quite high. But I think it is also possible they may have been going down the SL trail or had stopped on their way down and never got going again. Just because EC may have been trying to get back up the trail given she was found 30m up hill from the rest of the family, it may only have been she heading back up to get cell service or to get back to the truck for help.

Some scenarios that could have resulted in the family heading down the SL trail and only making it as far as they did are dark ones, as they include suicide or an accidental overdose from something. Since suicide has not been ruled out because toxicology results are pending, that leaves open the door in my mind that that is a possibility.

I add in the scenario of an accidental overdose to further illustrate my point, because I suppose that is also possible, although not likely. If the parents perished 'by accident' (JG first, then EC as she crawled towards help) - perhaps by something they recreationally ingested - tragically the baby and dog would have later succumbed to heat stroke.

Anyhow, I only paint these dark scenarios to try to illustrate my point that I am not sure we know for certain that the family was heading back up the SL trail.

 

[RickshawFan]

"In the years 2010 through 2014, 192 SARs were hiking-related fatalities. And the reasons for injury and death are noteworthy. The largest percentage of deaths for years have been consistently attributable to three things: lack of knowledge, lack of experience, and poor judgment. In fact, deaths related to lack of knowledge and experience by far outnumber deaths attributed to falls." from What's Killing America's Hikers?

This quote is from an excellent article by a SAR professional regarding the rise in hiking rescues and deaths. The statistics the author uses are based on National Park data but the trend she sees is probably accurate in all wilderness and hiking areas. It's as if SAR crews know this, but the rest of the world, including LE and me, did not.

This is also my sense of the matter. But I've been reading SAR reports for years. If you ever meet an SAR member, invite them for dinner, and just let them tell stories. You will learn a lot.

I've more than a few times done something really stupid myself.

A factor that isn't mentioned is "arrogance". Many people think they can outmaneuver nature, when nature ALWAYS has the upper hand.

A big red flag for me is when we have a missing hiker and those left behind describe them as "experienced". They almost never are. I also get red flags if missing hikers were traveling "ultralight", or if they are wearing inappropriate clothing (e.g. jeans) and footwear (e.g. sneakers).
I've met thru hikers on the AT who aren't experienced after being 5 months on the trail. They've never had to think on their feet in the wilderness, they can count on there being a road within a few miles so they can hitch to town, there are a gazillion other people on the trail, there are shelters and water sources every 7 miles (on average), and Walmarts hither and yon. (People were even staying in motels every other night!) That's not how you get back country experience. Sure, there might be some dicey moments (you will almost certainly encounter a bear, who will very likely run away from you ASAP), but this is not life on the edge. It's very cushy, in the scheme of things: out West is a whole different dimension (you might get stalked by a mountain lion), with its vast spaces and roadless areas.
IMO there are many sources of "experience", and it's best practice to get several. Yes, spend a bunch of time in the back country, but also go out with old timers, take an extended backcountry trip with a mountaineering club or a group like the Sierra Club, volunteer for SAR. If they humble you, so much the better: you will learn from them.

I also read SAR reports, especially the analysis. I don't have a lot of sources for these, but no doubt they're out there. You quickly learn what kinds of things people do that are incompatible with survival.

Here is one incident that can teach a person a lot:
Mount Hood's Deadliest Disaster

Mount Rainier National Park rescues as well as Grand Canyon will also be good reads.

I like to read these SAR reports. They are not recent, but the details are same old, same old, the kind of thing we see on WS all the time. This guy is a true "old timer", by the way. I had a chance to have a long conversation with him a few years ago. He's the type of guy you'd want to sign up for a trip with (he's likely made his own trip to heaven by now, though, RIP).
Traditional alpine mountaineering - free information and instruction

On another case, I also came across this French-speaking man in the Pyrenees. He takes people out on mountain hiking/backpacking trips, though I believe he's not a paid guide. He also has great photos. As far as best practices—and what kind of experience you need before he'll take you out—he's primo IMO. Although his blog isn't instructional, just from his photos, he's a good source for "this is what a good pack fit looks like", "this is what kind of boots you wear in this terrain", "this is a moderate hike," "this is how fast you are expected to move along on this trip", "this is how you do a bivvy", "this is a standard tent".... I'd love to go on one of this trips: I'd learn so much. Les Topos Pyrénées par Mariano – Randonnées et topos dans les Pyrénées

Always take your "10 essentials", folks! There's a reason NPS has signs all over the main trail in the Grand Canyon....
While I'm on this subject, TIP...... if you hike, check your pack. Look at the buckle on the sternum strap. Is it a weird shape? That's a whistle. Use it if you have a problem in the back country and need help; it is louder and will carry much better than your voice. It might just save your life.

 

[RickshawFan]

Hi Tink,

Somewhere on the previous thread I posted a link illustrating that lightning strikes do not always leave a trace, whether visible or internal.

Yes,that post had a great example, too!

 

[RickshawFan]

Thanks for the info Question>>> If all they had was the bladder (father had access?), how did they plan on providing water for the mother...infant and dog? I imagine it would be tedious unless they had additional sources??

It would be very tedious, and almost impossible for the dog.
It's actually a big red flag for me if the mom wasn't carrying a day pack. She would have needed a day pack to do anything more than about 15 minutes total My 25 lb doggie needs water any further than that, but so do I. And I'm certainly not out there above 80 degrees.

But I'm still trying to make the family's decisions compatible with some kind of trip on those trails. Only carrying 3L of water would be waaaaaaaay off of potentially workable. That's why I can't think of them doing the loop.

I mean, there are dumb mistakes, and then there's completely out of touch.

 

[RickshawFan]

We think, at least I think, they were heading back up the SL trail. And the probability they were going back up may be quite high. But I think it is also possible they may have been going down the SL trail or had stopped on their way down and never got going again. Just because EC may have been trying to get back up the trail given she was found 30m up hill from the rest of the family, it may only have been she heading back up to get cell service or to get back to the truck for help.

Snipped for focus

Another scenario:
They were going DOWN the gulch trail. He, baby, and doggie got a bit ahead. Perhaps she was looking for the dog and the dog caught up with dad, so he leashed it. Whatever. So, dad, baby, and doggie, have a sit and wait in the trail for momma. They are all facing uphill because that's where momma was coming from. He's just nicely sitting, baby set beside so dad's back could relax, doggie now leashed for safety. Maybe even momma was just over a knoll so they couldn't see that she'd collapsed or tripped and hit her head or whatever.
In this scenario, they'd be on the way DOWN, but facing uphill.

 

[annpats]

Well actually, @annpats. I was thinking more about why I used the term "cut off" to describe access I might be looking for and use, or perhaps JG and EC were looking for and used IF they had been seeking a mine to explore. I think the reason I said "cut off" vs. trail, path, etc., is from my experience access to mines is often not a marked trail or even a well used trail. It may even require some bush-whacking to get to the mine you seek. So when I said "cut-off", I was perhaps distinguishing a possibly well hidden access route to a mine that may almost not appear as a path per se. I may be making much more of this than I need to, but I thought I'd revisit my answer to you.

I get ya. An unofficial path that 'cuts off' from or leads from the main route. Sometimes hidden by foliage etc.

 

[rleigh123]

Heat stroke has not been ruled out as a cause of death. The only causes of death that have been ruled out are blunt force trauma and "chemical hazards" along the trail. Based on recent media reports, law enforcement is waiting for toxicology results before commenting further on a possible COD.

By the way, it's often difficult or impossible for an autopsy to confirm that heat stroke was the cause of death. “The autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short" (from https://www.aaimedicine.org/journal-of-insurance-medicine/jim/2002/034-02-0114.pdf). When heat stroke is listed as an official cause of death, it's usually after all other possibilities are eliminated.

You mention that the official word is that these deaths are "unique" and "strange." Law enforcement used a lot of such language initially, but that began to change last week. In a statement on Thursday, the Mariposa County Sheriff’s Office continued to say that they were investigating various potential causes of death, but--for the first time--they focused more on the conditions that day:

"The sheriff’s office said the entire Savage-Lundy Trail loop, where the family was found dead, is approximately 8.5 miles, with 5 miles of that being a 'steep southern exposure path with little-to-no trees or shade' in the 2018 Ferguson Fire burn scar. Sheriff officials said temperatures there appeared to range from 103 and 109 in certain parts of that trail between 11:50 a.m. and 5:50 p.m. Aug. 15, the day the family is believed to have been hiking it."​

Source: https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253770788.htm

I'm not suggesting that law enforcement has concluded that heat stroke was the COD, but I think they've shifted from not thinking about it at all to thinking that it's likely, or at least not unlikely.

Yes I know all that, but what I'm saying is the way it's been presented and investigated by officials and treated by the media is beyond weird. I've never seen a heat stroke case handled like this.