CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

[RickshawFan]

Agreed. I know LE would never be so cavalier, but I am surprised they didn’t immediately say, “it was hot, they succumbed, case closed.” Obviously, based on this thread, we can speculate forever and LE needs to fully investigate, but it seems pretty simple to me.

Perhaps they were out of their depth a bit? They do seem kind of a mess. That particular unit might not have a lot of experience with missing hikers and interacting with SAR, especially in that heat. I know LE usually coordinates the SAR teams and does the pressers, but maybe they might have used an SAR spokesperson to help them frame the statements? We seem to have ended up with a lot of speculation.
They also sound truly flummoxed about a cause. They might be just a bit freaked out?

 

[wary]

Do you think that type of "adventure tourism" gives people a false sense of bravado? That they can hike anywhere and achieve anything? After all, they "mastered" the Gobi desert!

That’s my suspicion.

 

[rahod1]

RSBM
Thank you, @nathan.hogan21. Nothing like a swift kick in the behind!

I appreciate so much what you said. As I stated up thread, my mind can simulate a simple scenario of a short jaunt and then an unfortunate turn of events resulting in everyone dying, likely from heat stroke. But unlike our friend Occom, I do not think the answer is that simple. Hence, IMO, the apparent delay of LE to release interim information about autopsy, etc.

I explored or at least inferred up thread, the possibility of murder-suicide (less so, suicide pact as I discussed up thread) and today, introduced the idea of accidental overdose by the parents. I am sadly starting to suspect, like others here, that JG and EC died first and their beloveds succumbed to heat stroke later. The simpler the benign scenario becomes in the face of all the data we have so far, the more compelling something like murder suicide or accidental overdose starts to make sense.

The key reality check for me is people and families all over the world can hide deep and painful secrets.

Those factors I highlighted are the least likely in my opinion, given the info we have on their life style. The circumstances in which they were found points to effects of heat in a *perfect storm* scenario. The only other factors that come close are environmental factors (algae...toxic gas...lightening) and those appear to be far less likely as well, but more likely than those you mention. The delay in LE is an assumption. They already indicated that the initial autopsy was inconclusive and they're awaiting the toxicology results, so I don't see any intentional delay. Just MOO

 

[RickshawFan]

They didn’t ask for search warrants for social media until 8/25. I wonder if they were waiting for the results of the autopsy and are now considering what state of mind the couple was in. There are a few very weird things about this case:
- Ellen didn’t have a phone (only one phone was sent to FBI for analysis; Jonathan did have a phone in his front right pocket).
- Why choose such a boring (not especially scenic) yet treacherous route? No evidence that Ellen was doing the hike “for the gram,” as she hasn’t posted any hiking/activity shots since the baby was born. Her posting activity slowed way down post-baby.
- Dog found next to dad, did not wander
- Dad not holding baby
- Decision to hike 8.5 miles and expose baby and dog to peril (there’s no way to keep a furry dog and baby comfortable for hours in 100+ degree heat)
- They didn’t tell anyone exactly where they were going or when they would be back
- They didn’t bring nearly enough water (based on reports of one bladder), but still had some left
- Ellen being found 30 yards away. She didn’t have a phone, so she wasn’t trying to get reception to call for help
- Not reported missing until 11pm the next day, despite Jonathan missing work

I think maybe there are too many assumptions relied on here.
-We don't know if the dog wandered. He might have got loose, Momma might have gone looking for him (he was her dog), and soon thereafter the dog showed up where Dad was, so Dad leashed him. I don't think we can assume at all the dog didn't wander.
-we don't know what trip they planned on or how long it was; they may not have planned to go far at all
-we don't know if they had enough water for their planned trip, because we don't know what they planned
-Dad, doggie, and baby could have just been waiting in the trail for momma to catch up with them after she'd maybe been searching for the dog. We don't know.
-missing hikers often aren't reported missing right away; missing from work might not trigger catastrophe reactions, either.

In addition to toxicology reports, we'd probably learn a lot from carry in/carry out contents. This would tell us how much they'd consumed, and how much they had left over. The sum of those would tell use what length of trip was planned.

 

[Tower]

3. Eyewitness states family was seen hiking in area at 7:45. RSBM

Great post, I just wanted to correct for those not going back and reading the full threads: MSM reported a witness saw them *driving* at 7:45 a.m. on Sunday near the trailhead where their vehicle was found. I point this out for accuracy, but also no one else was apparently hiking for 3 days in that area. Jmo, it was too hot for hiking.
Mariposa Sheriff’s Office Update on the Gerrish – Chung Family | Sierra News Online

 

[Satchie]

Great post, I just wanted to correct for those not going back and reading the full threads: MSM reported a witness saw them *driving* at 7:45 a.m. on Sunday near the trailhead where their vehicle was found. I point this out for accuracy, but also no one else was apparently hiking for 3 days in that area. Jmo, it was too hot for hiking.

Just from experience with LE statements, that may have been a home security camera along the route that LE have checked. They don't always share that detail, since it's not relevant to the public. But otherwise, how could they be so confident of the time and that it was their vehicle?

 

[rahod1]

Just from experience with LE statements, that may have been a home security camera along the route that LE have checked. They don't always share that detail, since it's not relevant to the public. But otherwise, how could they be so confident of the time and that it was their vehicle?

Well so far that's what's been stated. We don't know the specifics as to how LE obtained the info on the witness observing them in transit at 7:45. Are you standing by your post that they were seen HIKING at 7:45?

 

[EndoraXplorer]

At burning man there are people selling cold water and ice and there are tents with electric fans and emergency stations for injured or ill patrons.

Hi, while ice is in fact sold at Burning Man, no one sells cold water. Or anything else, aside from the coffee sold at Center Camp. But, there are ways too cool off, whether in your own personal space or another camp or w/e. Lots of people do bring RVs or run gennys and other ways to have A/C. You don't have to go to the medical stations.

I want to say it was 2017, there was a serious heatwave at Burning Man. On the day that we had to tear down our camp, it was at least 110. Three of my campmates ended up with heat exhaustion, even though they were hydrating. They were not making a lot of sense and insisted they could keep working. We ended up basically forcing them into an air conditioned trailer and they were out for the rest of the day.

 

[mickey2942]

Clark County Coroner: 12 people have suffered heat-related deaths this year | KLAS

Heat-Related Deaths Increase as Temperatures Rise in the West

Climate Change Indicators: Heat-Related Deaths | US EPA

Interesting. And the dates of these articles are from June and July. I agree that it has been getting warmer. This summer was brutal in the PNW. A triathlon was canceled here, due to heat index and smoke particulates in the air. 98 with 30% humidity, with altitude..

 

[JustReading01]

[...] RSBM
Just trying to break up the Heat vs Algae debate [RSBM...] scenario that would explain all of what is known about the case?

I look forward to the updates by LE and journalists. I wish I had the same access to information they have.

Personally, I feel that we are at the end of useful speculative scenario building.

 

[rahod1]

Despite all the talk back and forth here about Heat related death vs Algae related death, can anyone explain why foul play has been so swiftly discounted?

Foul play hasn't been discounted. There is no evidence that supports the thesis. In fact there is NO EVIDENCE that supports any theory at this point. So we're left to >>SPECULATE<<. Most rational thought would attempt to explain the MOST LIKELY cause of this tragedy. I have an opinion and it's based on what we know so far and it doesn't entertain any foul play.

 

[JustReading01]

Perhaps they were out of their depth a bit? They do seem kind of a mess. That particular unit might not have a lot of experience with missing hikers and interacting with SAR, especially in that heat. I know LE usually coordinates the SAR teams and does the pressers, but maybe they might have used an SAR spokesperson to help them frame the statements? We seem to have ended up with a lot of speculation.
They also sound truly flummoxed about a cause. They might be just a bit freaked out?

I think they are being extra cautious. Wealthy couple, with ties to wealthy friends, international roots, and international interest? Caution ahead.

In today's climate, if LE had tied the case up in five business days, people would have accused LE of not investigating the case or accused them of a coverup.

 

[rahod1]

I look forward to the updates by LE and journalists. I wish I had the same access to information they have.

Personally, I feel that we are at the end of useful speculative scenario building.

EXACTLY

 

[Satchie]

Well so far that's what's been stated. We don't know the specifics as to how LE obtained the info on the witness observing them in transit at 7:45. Are you standing by your post that they were seen HIKING at 7:45?

Not sure who you are addressing this to, I never stated that and even if I had, wouldn't get my knickers in a knot about 'standing by' anything.

 

[rahod1]

Not sure who you are addressing this to, I never stated that and even if I had, wouldn't get my knickers in a knot about 'standing by' anything.

My mistake...sorry it was another poster I was referring to. They said
" Eyewitness states family was seen hiking in area at 7:45" which conflicts with what LE has stated.

 

[RickshawFan]

Those of you who are playing with the mine theme. … What do you think of the possibility they were in that canyon to scope out a location to do a mining claim? Or maybe they even had one already?

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

One reason that heat was not immediately assumed may be because there were no witnesses. All the heat-related deaths or incidents I've read about recently had witnesses (not Kreycik). Either fellow hikers or people on the trail stopping to help. The eeriness is the four of them including dog and baby found together-- on a desolate,sun-baked empty trail. It's almost absurdist, like the start of a Scandi-Noir murder series.

Their poor judgement, if that's the cause, created the mystery that we're all still hashing out.

 

[RickshawFan]

I look forward to the updates by LE and journalists. I wish I had the same access to information they have.

Personally, I feel that we are at the end of useful speculative scenario building.

I seem to keep coming up with new speculations, though, so let’s not discount the dyed-in-the-wool knack of WSers to get super creative with possibilities. And gosh, maybe each of the 50 possibilities posted will have at least a micro grain of truth.
Useful? You may be right about that.

 

[rahod1]

That is all pretty meaningless. We don't know the exact situation of the family or relationship dynamics. And I have worked with a lot of families that appear "perfect", with excellent financial status...outward appearances can be deceptive.
At this point, we really don't know much at all.

Things we know:
1. No apparent cause of death
2. Weather and heat index for the area was extreme that day
3. Eyewitness states family was seen hiking in area at 7:45
4. Toxic algae bloom in water

Things we don't know:
1. Toxicology results
2. Information LEO may have held back
3. Other parts of the investigation that have not been released

I am interested if LEO found any items on the trail, if the family left items. Was there a diaper bag? Or are diapers and wipes in the backpack? Did they have any food with them? Or indication that they ate at all? What did they eat?

Lots of questions, and INMO, the autopsy on the dog is the one I am most interested in...especially stomach contents.

How do we know this (Bold print)?

 

[Coquette]

1. No phone on Ellen - wanted to travel light plus they probably knew there wouldn't be good cell coverage in the canyon so why carry the extra weight? One phone between the two would suffice.
2. The Gobi desert isn't particularly scenic either and neither is Burning man. Seems like this family loved extreme hikes in the heat.
3. Dog was physically attached to the dad (leashed) per several reports and hence couldn't wander.
4. Dad was under severe heat exhaustion so couldn't hold baby while he tried to rest and cool off.
5. See #2.
6. They didn't know anyone in the area since they were new. And they didn't think this was a 'dangerous' hike by any means. It was just a regular daytrip in their mind.
7. Kreycik carried no water. At least these people carried a 3 liter camelback. As for some left, they were probably rationing the last few drops when they passed out.
8. She was probably leaving for help in a state of panic and literal meltdown.
9. New to his workplace. Tech companies are more "woke" and liberal and like to give people their privacy so won't raise the alarm just because someone didn't show up to work in the morning. They probably waited until later that day to see if he responded to their efforts to reach him.

According to EC's Instagram, they were already spending time in Mariposa and working on a house in August of 2018. She talked about time in the countryside and how the house was coming along. They'd have known people there. They were not that new to the area.