CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

[Satchie]

Yes, they were adventurers/daredevils - the kind who like to live on the edge. Such folks are always at higher risk to fall off the edge unfortunately.

Also, when everything is going so well in life: a high tech career, wealth, happy family, good health, no problems you can't solve: who could imagine a little miscalculation like where to go on a Sunday outing, could bring it all down, reduce your whole life of striving to nothing, just because it's hot.

BTW, Burning Man rarely gets over 100F, and everyone just sits in the shade for the hot part, then it cools off quickly and gets very cold at night.

 

[SophieRose]

I think they chose that trail because it was right down the street from their new house, unfortunately they chose the wrong day.

 

[woods]

I think the lack of animal predation on the bodies after death of the family is a good indicator of just how hot it was at that location.

 

[annpats]

There's a nice video of Jonathan presenting a work seminar here:

RIP.

 

[armchairagatha]

They didn’t ask for search warrants for social media until 8/25. I wonder if they were waiting for the results of the autopsy and are now considering what state of mind the couple was in. There are a few very weird things about this case:
- Ellen didn’t have a phone (only one phone was sent to FBI for analysis; Jonathan did have a phone in his front right pocket).
- Why choose such a boring (not especially scenic) yet treacherous route? No evidence that Ellen was doing the hike “for the gram,” as she hasn’t posted any hiking/activity shots since the baby was born. Her posting activity slowed way down post-baby.
- Dog found next to dad, did not wander
- Dad not holding baby
- Decision to hike 8.5 miles and expose baby and dog to peril (there’s no way to keep a furry dog and baby comfortable for hours in 100+ degree heat)
- They didn’t tell anyone exactly where they were going or when they would be back
- They didn’t bring nearly enough water (based on reports of one bladder), but still had some left
- Ellen being found 30 yards away. She didn’t have a phone, so she wasn’t trying to get reception to call for help
- Not reported missing until 11pm the next day, despite Jonathan missing work

1. No phone on Ellen - wanted to travel light plus they probably knew there wouldn't be good cell coverage in the canyon so why carry the extra weight? One phone between the two would suffice.
2. The Gobi desert isn't particularly scenic either and neither is Burning man. Seems like this family loved extreme hikes in the heat.
3. Dog was physically attached to the dad (leashed) per several reports and hence couldn't wander.
4. Dad was under severe heat exhaustion so couldn't hold baby while he tried to rest and cool off.
5. See #2.
6. They didn't know anyone in the area since they were new. And they didn't think this was a 'dangerous' hike by any means. It was just a regular daytrip in their mind.
7. Kreycik carried no water. At least these people carried a 3 liter camelback. As for some left, they were probably rationing the last few drops when they passed out.
8. She was probably leaving for help in a state of panic and literal meltdown.
9. New to his workplace. Tech companies are more "woke" and liberal and like to give people their privacy so won't raise the alarm just because someone didn't show up to work in the morning. They probably waited until later that day to see if he responded to their efforts to reach him.

 

[Deleted member 292879]

Just catching up on today’s discussion. Another thing I noticed from photos on IG in which Ellen is tagged: a couple of hikes to swimming holes.

Now I’m wondering if the water was actually the main draw for the itinerary: the pictures of the water at the bottom of Savage-Lundy on AllTrails are lovely. Let’s assume they were ignorant of the algae bloom notice and thought: this is the closest spot to our house to go cool off. 3 mi (or less?) down to Savage-Lundy and back up, 6 total, with a cool swim in the middle to make the hike up more tolerable. Back in time for baby’s morning nap.

All the points today about them being adventure tourists sadly seem accurate to me. In Gobi it looks like they were wearing Adidas street shoes or similar. I hate to say those details matter but…they do.

 

[woods]

Just catching up on today’s discussion. Another thing I noticed from photos on IG in which Ellen is tagged: a couple of hikes to swimming holes.

Now I’m wondering if the water was actually the main draw for the itinerary: the pictures of the water at the bottom of Savage-Lundy on AllTrails are lovely. Let’s assume they were ignorant of the algae bloom notice and thought: this is the closest spot to our house to go cool off. 3 mi (or less?) down to Savage-Lundy and back up, 6 total, with a cool swim in the middle to make the hike up more tolerable. Back in time for baby’s morning nap.

All the points today about them being adventure tourists sadly seem accurate to me. In Gobi it looks like they were wearing Adidas street shoes or similar. I hate to say those details matter but…they do.

I read on here that the Warning Sign for toxic algae blooms was newly installed at the start of the trail after the family was found dead, so this could very well be possible.

 

[minazoe]

whatever happed to these people , I am truly sorry... dangerous to hike though in temps over 80 degrees with a baby and dog. this just blows my mind and feels wrong..If they succumbed to the elements it is really just heartbreaking and I'm sorry but I have trouble accepting the mere fact they went hiking to begin with.

maybe it wasn't super humid and didn't feel that uncomfortable when they left..but surely they knew the temps were going to soar that day . I have known some fitness freaks though...I hope the family hears something soon...
they maybe just didn't think it through...such a sad case.

you guys know me though and I do feel suspicious about this because it's highly unusual.

mOO

 

[katydid23]

Despite all the talk back and forth here about Heat related death vs Algae related death, can anyone explain why foul play has been so swiftly discounted?

I would think that the way the family was discovered and the scene described should be enough to warrant more discussion about how someone could have set it up if they were trying to commit a crime?

Considering the fact that Heat vs Algae discussions keep coming back to how could all of the family including the dog have succumbed to something so close together and at the same time without seeking help, isnt that the fact that makes some form of Foul Play or something more sinister seem much more likely?

Knowing that the police have still not made any determinations publicly about what could have happened while they wait for the Toxicology tests to come back, doesnt that stand at odds with the possible physical signs both internally and externally that are known to occur when Heat or Algae causes Illness and death and should have been surely visible to a coroner if the family did in fact die that way?

Is there anything about their use of one of their vehicles vs another to get to the Trailhead or even the fact they used any vehicle at all considering they lived close by that might stand at odds with what their usual routine was for hiking?

Has anything been said about the state of their finances, health or working relationships that might suggest foul play in the case?

Just trying to break up the Heat vs Algae debate that's been going on for page after page here and see if anyone else has theories or ideas around a more darker situation such as Suicide, Murder-Suicide or other Foul Play scenario that would explain all of what is known about the case?

They have a lot of money---they both have good jobs---both young and healthy---marriage reportedly happy---beautiful baby girl---8 year old dog that was well cared for and happy---I don't see a lot of evidence that this was foul play, JMO

 

[katydid23]

He was a new employee at SnapChat. And they were new to the area so the nanny was new as well. So they had no close friends either near their new house or at his new workplace. I am not surprised no one raised the alarm until late on Monday.

And even though he was a new employee there, he was pretty high up on the food chain. And he did much of his work from home, according to previous articles posted upthread---so it makes sense he wouldn't be immediately missed that Monday morning. JMO

 

[RedHaus]

Yeah I said that earlier in the thread. They probably all had some substantial decomp and I wonder if that hindered the ME in determining if they had died from heat stroke.

That, or perhaps the autopsy has some "grey areas" in terms of findings. Could this have been due to heatstroke or could it have been due to xyz poison? I think it would be prudent of LE, in the event of any ambiguities as to the meaning of the data, to wait until all the available data are in. The families surely deserves that.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

I did read that Jonathan not only owned another house, but had actually purchased a few properties in the area.

So, his salary must be enormous, or he was hoping to get rental income on them?

I presume Ellen doesn't work due to the TBI and also the other health condition which she said would bar her from working in an office again.

And having a new baby can be hard on the wallet, but they had a nanny, so I would assume their finances were healthy.

They even had a house manager in addition to the nanny and Ellen was in school studying for a counseling degree. They were doing very well financially. CA is one of the most expensive housing markets.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

1. No phone on Ellen - wanted to travel light plus they probably knew there wouldn't be good cell coverage in the canyon so why carry the extra weight? One phone between the two would suffice.
2. The Gobi desert isn't particularly scenic either and neither is Burning man. Seems like this family loved extreme hikes in the heat.
3. Dog was physically attached to the dad (leashed) per several reports and hence couldn't wander.
4. Dad was under severe heat exhaustion so couldn't hold baby while he tried to rest and cool off.
5. See #2.
6. They didn't know anyone in the area since they were new. And they didn't think this was a 'dangerous' hike by any means. It was just a regular daytrip in their mind.
7. Kreycik carried no water. At least these people carried a 3 liter camelback. As for some left, they were probably rationing the last few drops when they passed out.
8. She was probably leaving for help in a state of panic and literal meltdown.
9. New to his workplace. Tech companies are more "woke" and liberal and like to give people their privacy so won't raise the alarm just because someone didn't show up to work in the morning. They probably waited until later that day to see if he responded to their efforts to reach him.

I thought they had been living there for a year?

 

[RedHaus]

LEO must have their reasons. I do think one odd thing is that the dog was dead next to them. Plus the known issues with the algae.

@GatorFL, seems some in this discussion think the 8 yo pup ignited whatever happened to this family, for whatever reason. From your post, do you think the family got as far as the Merced river, dog took a dip or sip or both, and as they continued - perhaps intending to do the full loop - the dog became seriously ill. The fastest route back to the truck, I think, would be retreat up the LS trail. Ergo (someone used that earlier!) do you think the dog died first after they valiantly tried to save him?

 

[woods]

Knowing that the police have still not made any determinations publicly about what could have happened while they wait for the Toxicology tests to come back

Sheriff Briese: “There are other possibilities of just the natural elements of heat, the dehydration, and the aggressiveness of this hike, but right now we don’t have any of those answers.”

 

[RickshawFan]

You could be right...am only saying the part of the trail (further down from where they were found) they didn't go down should be void of the same prints that show up higher up where they came down. I would think that could be *easily* verified.

Yes, you're right of course. There should be prints. SARs folks know not to step on evidence.

 

[RedHaus]

Just trying to break up the Heat vs Algae debate that's been going on for page after page here and see if anyone else has theories or ideas around a more darker situation such as Suicide, Murder-Suicide or other Foul Play scenario that would explain all of what is known about the case?

RSBM
Thank you, @nathan.hogan21. Nothing like a swift kick in the behind!

I appreciate so much what you said. As I stated up thread, my mind can simulate a simple scenario of a short jaunt and then an unfortunate turn of events resulting in everyone dying, likely from heat stroke. But unlike our friend Occom, I do not think the answer is that simple. Hence, IMO, the apparent delay of LE to release interim information about autopsy, etc.

I explored or at least inferred up thread, the possibility of murder-suicide (less so, suicide pact as I discussed up thread) and today, introduced the idea of accidental overdose by the parents. I am sadly starting to suspect, like others here, that JG and EC died first and their beloveds succumbed to heat stroke later. The simpler the benign scenario becomes in the face of all the data we have so far, the more compelling something like murder suicide or accidental overdose starts to make sense.

The key reality check for me is people and families all over the world can hide deep and painful secrets.

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes. Although all the people dying this summer would have been better off in a group. So sad. Crazy amounts of publicity about Kreycik, esp in CA and STILL this family then died as did the gentleman from the Bay Area hiking in Death Valley. The disconnect needs to be addressed with messaging that speaks of brain damage, death, that no level of fitness or gear makes exertion in high temps safe for humans or dogs.

There actually were two heat-related deaths in Death Valley 3 days apart. In the same canyon.
Two hikers die within days of each other in Death Valley National Park

 

[mickey2942]

They have a lot of money---they both have good jobs---both young and healthy---marriage reportedly happy---beautiful baby girl---8 year old dog that was well cared for and happy---I don't see a lot of evidence that this was foul play, JMO

That is all pretty meaningless. We don't know the exact situation of the family or relationship dynamics. And I have worked with a lot of families that appear "perfect", with excellent financial status...outward appearances can be deceptive.
At this point, we really don't know much at all.

Things we know:
1. No apparent cause of death
2. Weather and heat index for the area was extreme that day
3. Eyewitness states family was seen hiking in area at 7:45
4. Toxic algae bloom in water

Things we don't know:
1. Toxicology results
2. Information LEO may have held back
3. Other parts of the investigation that have not been released

I am interested if LEO found any items on the trail, if the family left items. Was there a diaper bag? Or are diapers and wipes in the backpack? Did they have any food with them? Or indication that they ate at all? What did they eat?

Lots of questions, and INMO, the autopsy on the dog is the one I am most interested in...especially stomach contents.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Do you think that type of "adventure tourism" gives people a false sense of bravado? That they can hike anywhere and achieve anything? After all, they "mastered" the Gobi desert!

I think this is a distinct possibility.

I also think that as climate change accelerates we will see more and more tragedies like this, as people use their previously-established sense of what boundaries can be safely pushed, to make decisions in an environment where the rules have started to change..

I did read that Jonathan not only owned another house, but had actually purchased a few properties in the area.

So, his salary must be enormous, or he was hoping to get rental income on them?

This is not all that uncommon in California, when people sell a house in San Francisco's absolutely crazy real estate market, they often reap enough to buy multiple homes in a lower market. And yes, likely they intended to receive rental income or airbnb income, unless the other homes were for inlaws or something along those lines.