CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

[Tower]

LEO must have their reasons. I do think one odd thing is that the dog was dead next to them. Plus the known issues with the algae.

I agree, the deceased’s dog is often found wandering, even alerting people at the trailhead something is wrong. I think two adults so close to their car, plus a baby, plus a dog made them investigate a sudden CO death or one of the early disproved theories. It’s not often you see a couple with a baby die while hiking.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

LEO must have their reasons. I do think one odd thing is that the dog was dead next to them. Plus the known issues with the algae.

An Akita mix has a double coat and the dog was 8, I am not surprised the dog was dead. Could have happened Sunday, Monday or Tuesday. I would not be surprised if he had burns on his paws from the trail. Very sad and hard to understand the thinking behind taking him on a long hike in sun in high heat. That the baby was in the carrier, not being held when she passed and that the dog was next to her is so sad to me. I have had a heat emergency and get that your muscles don't work but so sad. And the carriers are quite hot for the baby too. MOO.

 

[katydid23]

This happened in the Matrosova case as well. People called her "experienced" because she had climbed some impressive mountains, but she'd always been with professional guides and groups.

I think the couple's Burning Man "experience" for baking hot weather activity is misleading, because there are people all around? A medic center? There wouldn't be a lot of exertion with long steep climbs while carrying a pack?
The risks are much lower at Burning Man than the trail and conditions this couple were in. AFAIK.

At burning man there are people selling cold water and ice and there are tents with electric fans and emergency stations for injured or ill patrons.

 

[annpats]

It’s not often you see a couple with a baby die while hiking.

That's because it's not often you see a couple with a baby go hiking in over 100°F heat, on an 8.5 mile trail with no tree shade, steep ravines and hardly enough water.

Sadly, I think Jonathan and Ellen were pioneers at this.....

 

[Tower]

That's because it's not often you see a couple with a baby go hiking in over 100°F heat, on an 8.5 mile trail with no tree shade, steep ravines and hardly enough water.

Sadly, I think Johnathan and Ellen were pioneers at this.....

Agreed. I know LE would never be so cavalier, but I am surprised they didn’t immediately say, “it was hot, they succumbed, case closed.” Obviously, based on this thread, we can speculate forever and LE needs to fully investigate, but it seems pretty simple to me.

 

[nathan.hogan21]

Despite all the talk back and forth here about Heat related death vs Algae related death, can anyone explain why foul play has been so swiftly discounted?

I would think that the way the family was discovered and the scene described should be enough to warrant more discussion about how someone could have set it up if they were trying to commit a crime?

Considering the fact that Heat vs Algae discussions keep coming back to how could all of the family including the dog have succumbed to something so close together and at the same time without seeking help, isnt that the fact that makes some form of Foul Play or something more sinister seem much more likely?

Knowing that the police have still not made any determinations publicly about what could have happened while they wait for the Toxicology tests to come back, doesnt that stand at odds with the possible physical signs both internally and externally that are known to occur when Heat or Algae causes Illness and death and should have been surely visible to a coroner if the family did in fact die that way?

Is there anything about their use of one of their vehicles vs another to get to the Trailhead or even the fact they used any vehicle at all considering they lived close by that might stand at odds with what their usual routine was for hiking?

Has anything been said about the state of their finances, health or working relationships that might suggest foul play in the case?

Just trying to break up the Heat vs Algae debate that's been going on for page after page here and see if anyone else has theories or ideas around a more darker situation such as Suicide, Murder-Suicide or other Foul Play scenario that would explain all of what is known about the case?

 

[Tower]

Despite all the talk back and forth here about Heat related death vs Algae related death, can anyone explain why foul play has been so swiftly discounted?

I would think that the way the family was discovered and the scene described should be enough to warrant more discussion about how someone could have set it up if they were trying to commit a crime?

Considering the fact that Heat vs Algae discussions keep coming back to how could all of the family including the dog have succumbed to something so close together and at the same time without seeking help, isnt that the fact that makes some form of Foul Play or something more sinister seem much more likely?

Knowing that the police have still not made any determinations publicly about what could have happened while they wait for the Toxicology tests to come back, doesnt that stand at odds with the possible physical signs both internally and externally that are known to occur when Heat or Algae causes Illness and death and should have been surely visible to a coroner if the family did in fact die that way?

Is there anything about their use of one of their vehicles vs another to get to the Trailhead or even the fact they used any vehicle at all considering they lived close by that might stand at odds with what their usual routine was for hiking?

Has anything been said about the state of their finances, health or working relationships that might suggest foul play in the case?

Just trying to break up the Heat vs Algae debate that's been going on for page after page here and see if anyone else has theories or ideas around a more darker situation such as Suicide, Murder-Suicide or other Foul Play scenario that would explain all of what is known about the case?

Jmo, but killing the whole family including dog, on a hot trail, leaving no footprints and no signs of foul play when they could have been killed in their driveway seems much less likely than a hiking family dying with little water in 109 degree F heat. Again, Jmo. Toxicology results may give us any final answers.
ETA: Same answer with murder-suicide. Tox should tell us. Almost any type of foul play leaves some signs.

 

[Seattle1]

LEO must have their reasons. I do think one odd thing is that the dog was dead next to them. Plus the known issues with the algae.

I agree, the deceased’s dog is often found wandering, even alerting people at the trailhead something is wrong. I think two adults so close to their car, plus a baby, plus a dog made them investigate a sudden CO death or one of the early disproved theories. It’s not often you see a couple with a baby die while hiking.

I always assumed that dogs are allowed if on a leash and this appears to be true for Sierra National Forest.

Sierra National Forest - Home

 

[nathan.hogan21]

Jmo, but killing the whole family including dog, on a hot trail, leaving no footprints and no signs of foul play when they could have been killed in their driveway seems much less likely than a hiking family dying with little water in 109 degree F heat. Again, Jmo. Toxicology results may give us any final answers.

Absolutely agree with this, the debate will likely rage on for sometime until the toxicology report comes back. I just cant accept 4 individuals, the Father, Mother, Dog and Baby all succumbing to the same event regardless of it being Heat, Algae or something else environmental.

The more I read about the way they were found over and over I feel like there was an initiating event that caused most of the deaths but not all of them, the only question then is who died first?

The coroner probably already knows in what order or at what times they all died but I feel like that might be key to explaining how they either fell afoul of the elements one after another or in my own opinion, how one could have potentially brought the others to harm before then passing themselves.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

That's because it's not often you see a couple with a baby go hiking in over 100°F heat, on an 8.5 mile trail with no tree shade, steep ravines and hardly enough water.

Sadly, I think Jonathan and Ellen were pioneers at this.....

It had to be extremely miserable for all. It is hard to understand. No one else was on the trail for 2 days, even on the Mariposa Trails FB group people talked about avoiding SL in summer and on AllTrails the canyon was discussed as hot even in spring, necessitating a lot of water.

 

[Satchie]

That's because it's not often you see a couple with a baby go hiking in over 100°F heat, on an 8.5 mile trail with no tree shade, steep ravines and hardly enough water.

Sadly, I think Jonathan and Ellen were pioneers at this.....

And, no other hikers (because no one hikes those trails in August), and no cell coverage...

So, no one to help, no way to get help.

Plus, they didn't tell anyone where they were going and when they were expected back, so that someone would go looking for them.

I guess it never occurred to them that anything could go wrong.

 

[nathan.hogan21]

And, no other hikers (because no one hikes those trails in August), and no cell coverage...

So, no one to help, no way to get help.

Plus, they didn't tell anyone where they were going and when they were expected back, so that someone would go looking for them.

I guess it never occurred to them that anything could go wrong.

Or they told no one where they were going that day and chose such a less travelled spot for a specific reason. It seems inescapably odd that they chose to hike where they did when there are so many better travelled and more frequently travelled routes they would have been aware of nearby.

 

[mickey2942]

I wonder how long they had the baby carrier. And how many hikes they had done with the carrier?

My experience with baby carriers, is that the older the baby, the less time they are content in the carrier. The baby is reported as "one year old". Big difference between 12 months and 22 months. I wonder how old she was? Sleeping, okay, half an hour, okay...then, they want to get down, walk. Fussing starts.

Just my personal experience with hiking and kids. Which is why, we kept trips extremely short. And family friendly areas, where a toddler could walk a bit. Nothing steep.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

And, no other hikers (because no one hikes those trails in August), and no cell coverage...

So, no one to help, no way to get help.

Plus, they didn't tell anyone where they were going and when they were expected back, so that someone would go looking for them.

I guess it never occurred to them that anything could go wrong.

I was surprised that the nanny or Snapchat did not call LE. My office has done so when people are no shows. It did make me wonder if they have previously gone on spontaneous adventures before so people were not as alarmed? That said, by Monday I think it was a recovery not rescue so it may not have changed the outcome but it did strike me as odd that no one saw it as a possible emergency, esp given the heat and that they were known to be outdoorsy.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

I wonder how long they had the baby carrier. And how many hikes they had done with the carrier?

My experience with baby carriers, is that the older the baby, the less time they are content in the carrier. The baby is reported as "one year old". Big difference between 12 months and 22 months. I wonder how old she was? Sleeping, okay, half an hour, okay...then, they want to get down, walk. Fussing starts.

Just my personal experience with hiking and kids. Which is why, we kept trips extremely short. And family friendly areas, where a toddler could walk a bit. Nothing steep.

She turned one in August per Ellen's Instagram.
@echungster • Instagram photos and videos

Some of the press coverage showed the baby in a front carrier when she was younger.

 

[armchairagatha]

I was surprised that the nanny or Snapchat did not call LE. My office has done so when people are no shows. It did make me wonder if they have previously gone on spontaneous adventures before so people were not as alarmed? That said, by Monday I think it was a recovery not rescue so it may not have changed the outcome but it did strike me as odd that no one saw it as a possible emergency, esp given the heat and that they were known to be outdoorsy.

He was a new employee at SnapChat. And they were new to the area so the nanny was new as well. So they had no close friends either near their new house or at his new workplace. I am not surprised no one raised the alarm until late on Monday.

 

[annpats]

He was a new employee at SnapChat. And they were new to the area so the nanny was new as well. So they had no close friends either near their new house or at his new workplace. I am not surprised no one raised the alarm until late on Monday.

Plus, the people that did know them probably assumed they were spending the whole weekend enjoying their family unit, off doing interesting things and that's why they weren't online/responding to messages etc.
They didn't want to interrupt their precious family time.

 

[NSamuelle]

Absolutely agree with this, the debate will likely rage on for sometime until the toxicology report comes back. I just cant accept 4 individuals, the Father, Mother, Dog and Baby all succumbing to the same event regardless of it being Heat, Algae or something else environmental.

The more I read about the way they were found over and over I feel like there was an initiating event that caused most of the deaths but not all of them, the only question then is who died first?

The coroner probably already knows in what order or at what times they all died but I feel like that might be key to explaining how they either fell afoul of the elements one after another or in my own opinion, how one could have potentially brought the others to harm before then passing themselves.

They didn’t ask for search warrants for social media until 8/25. I wonder if they were waiting for the results of the autopsy and are now considering what state of mind the couple was in. There are a few very weird things about this case:
- Ellen didn’t have a phone (only one phone was sent to FBI for analysis; Jonathan did have a phone in his front right pocket).
- Why choose such a boring (not especially scenic) yet treacherous route? No evidence that Ellen was doing the hike “for the gram,” as she hasn’t posted any hiking/activity shots since the baby was born. Her posting activity slowed way down post-baby.
- Dog found next to dad, did not wander
- Dad not holding baby
- Decision to hike 8.5 miles and expose baby and dog to peril (there’s no way to keep a furry dog and baby comfortable for hours in 100+ degree heat)
- They didn’t tell anyone exactly where they were going or when they would be back
- They didn’t bring nearly enough water (based on reports of one bladder), but still had some left
- Ellen being found 30 yards away. She didn’t have a phone, so she wasn’t trying to get reception to call for help
- Not reported missing until 11pm the next day, despite Jonathan missing work

 

[annpats]

Has anything been said about the state of their finances, health or working relationships that might suggest foul play in the case?

I did read that Jonathan not only owned another house, but had actually purchased a few properties in the area.

So, his salary must be enormous, or he was hoping to get rental income on them?

I presume Ellen doesn't work due to the TBI and also the other health condition which she said would bar her from working in an office again.

And having a new baby can be hard on the wallet, but they had a nanny, so I would assume their finances were healthy.

 

[woods]

They didn’t ask for search warrants for social media until 8/25. I wonder if they were waiting for the results of the autopsy and are now considering what state of mind the couple was in. There are a few very weird things about this case:
- Ellen didn’t have a phone (only one phone was sent to FBI for analysis; Jonathan did have a phone in his front right pocket).
- Why choose such a boring (not especially scenic) yet treacherous route? No evidence that Ellen was doing the hike “for the gram,” as she hasn’t posted any hiking/activity shots since the baby was born. Her posting activity slowed way down post-baby.
- Dog found next to dad, did not wander
- Dad not holding baby
- Decision to hike 8.5 miles and expose baby and dog to peril (there’s no way to keep a furry dog and baby comfortable for hours in 100+ degree heat)
- They didn’t tell anyone exactly where they were going or when they would be back
- They didn’t bring nearly enough water (based on reports of one bladder), but still had some left
- Ellen being found 30 yards away. She didn’t have a phone, so she wasn’t trying to get reception to call for help
- Not reported missing until 11pm the next day, despite Jonathan missing work

Wasn’t it Jonathan who researched Hites Cove trail on his phone the day before their hike? They also reportedly went hiking every weekend, and it appears neither posted about their weekend hiking adventures on their socials/AllTrails accounts.