CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #3

[Owlpellet]

What puzzles me about Ellen “going for help” is that she didn’t have a phone (only one phone was referenced and given to the FBI on 8/24 for processing, and it was Jonathan’s, found in his right front pocket). Even if there’s poor reception in the canyon, she could’ve called as soon as she reached reception - if she had a phone - but she didn’t.

Maybe Ellen’s own phone was in the car and it was necessary to go somewhere else (by car) to get a signal or the first signal was at the top, where the car was. I’d like to know if she had the car keys on her.

 

[lotus777]

Another forum (non-WS) mentioned Ellen's traumatic brain injury and heat. Apparently TBIs are often lifelong conditions and they make a person more susceptible to heat. I know the TBI has been mentioned here but I don't think the heat factor in relation to it has been.

 

[RedHaus]

What makes you inclined to think they started on the opposite end? And what do you think killed them 1/2 way done the steep trail?

RS&BBM

...I figure OP's idea that they only got 1.5 miles down the trail is because of how bad the heat would have been. Or maybe they did make it to the river but ended up in distress during the climb on the way back.

BBM
Those are easy questions for me to answer, @gitana1, since that's my original idea and have not moved far from it based on all our discussions so far. And @lotus777, you are correct with respect to my thinking... and thanks for the nickname!

Our resident clinicians, an astute paramedic (@NSamuelle) and veterinarian (@Runswithdogs) have made it abundantly clear, as have all the literature others have posted throughout our threads, that the conditions of that day, even as early as 8:00am were so brutal that the dog and baby, if not the adults as well, would have been in crisis as early as 1/2 hour in to their hike. That does not take them very far --- perhaps 1.5 miles. Since they were found on the S-L trail 1.5 miles from their car, logic in my mind puts two and two together that they likely did not do the loop. They only got that far. IMO.

And I think at this point, my thinking is they may not have died all at once... but rather that cascade or spiral of death occurred. Perhaps it was the dog first, so they stopped to help, then the baby, then the parents overcome by grief can't function well, then they succumb, perhaps JG first. Poor EC may have crawled towards the truck in desperation. IMO.

Now, there are other darker scenarios that rumble in my mind that don't necessarily start with heat stroke, but could end with heat stroke. And those are ideas I cannot discuss here out of respect for WS TOS and the families.

 

[Rocky Mountain Hi]

Maybe Ellen’s own phone was in the car and it was necessary to go somewhere else (by car) to get a signal or the first signal was at the top, where the car was. I’d like to know if she had the car keys on her.

A phone left in a hot car (they're heat traps! On hot days--ovens!) for hours might not be fully functional.
According to internet sources:

Your cell phone works best at temperatures between 0 and 35 degrees Celsius (32 and 95 degrees Fahrenheit), and exposure to temperatures outside of that range can impact your phone's performance or hardware.

 

[EndoraXplorer]

Another forum (non-WS) mentioned Ellen's traumatic brain injury and heat. Apparently TBIs are often lifelong conditions and they make a person more susceptible to heat. I know the TBI has been mentioned here but I don't think the heat factor in relation to it has been.

This has been mentioned before - and the fact that the TBI occurred over a decade ago. Since then she traveled to multiple hot places including Burning Man and the Gobi Desert. I mean, it's possible the TBI did make her more susceptible to heat, we don't know, but to me, it does not seem like a factor in this. MOO.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Certainly, that choice is up to you. But I think you might be missing out on a golden opportunity to enjoy Mariposa before the Murder Hornets arrive.

Thank goodness, you got my tongue-in-cheek comment. Your reply made my morning. I'm still laughing!

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

What makes you inclined to think they started on the opposite end? And what do you think killed them 1/2 way done the steep trail?

TIA!

I have no facts to support this scenario, only a personal gut feeling (and I think a post by @RickshawFan a long while back.) I simply cannot believe the family was able to hike for hours in the day's extreme heat. I believe Philip Kreycik was done in 3-4 hours. Of course, the Sheriff has his evidence and belief which we've only been told. If anyone can explain how two adults, a dog, and a baby could survive an 8 mi hike in 90 degrees and above, please explain. Again.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

A phone left in a hot car (they're heat traps! On hot days--ovens!) for hours might not be fully functional.
According to internet sources:

Your cell phone works best at temperatures between 0 and 35 degrees Celsius (32 and 95 degrees Fahrenheit), and exposure to temperatures outside of that range can impact your phone's performance or hardware.

That raises a great point. I found that out while listening to music on my iPhone while gardening in the heat. (Never above a heat humidity index near 35°C)It just shuts down after about 30 minutes. It has to completely cool down in my home before it will even power up.

Even if Jonathan could get a signal, the phone may have shut down due to the heat. So, no way to even try to send a text, or write a message on the phone. (Saying that without knowing what type of phone they had.) My experience only.

 

[Steelhead]

I imagine this couple knew better than to drink straight from the river and I don’t think they did, especially if they had water left over in a camelbak. The dog may have, but not them.

I am most intrigued by the lightning idea.

 

[Lubilu]

I imagine this couple knew better than to drink straight from the river and I don’t think they did, especially if they had water left over in a camelbak. The dog may have, but not them.

I am most intrigued by the lightning idea.

I agree, it's most interesting to see lightning gradually becoming (to my eyes, at least) one of the most prevalent theories here.

Fingers crossed the tox results aren't too far off now and that the relatives of this beautiful family can get some answers soon. I can only imagine the gut-wrenching pain they must be going through. This has clearly affected a good number of us strangers from around the world as well and I hope that whatever transpires to have happened in this tragic incident, we all become a lot more cautious when it comes to putting ourselves out there in nature's 'playground'. Things are scary out there, and we mustn't forget our place in it all.

(As an aside, @Curious_in_NC, I feel terrible to laugh but your comment about Murder Hornets did make me feel very grateful to be an ocean or two away from the US...!)

EDIT: as I wasn't sure of the policy on cussing here, and my attempts to censor a certain word didn't cut it!

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I have no facts to support this scenario, only a personal gut feeling (and I think a post by @RickshawFan a long while back.) I simply cannot believe the family was able to hike for hours in the day's extreme heat. I believe Philip Kreycik was done in 3-4 hours. Of course, the Sheriff has his evidence and belief which we've only been told. If anyone can explain how two adults, a dog, and a baby could survive an 8 mi hike in 90 degrees and above, please explain. Again.

The scenario I've been pondering is that they made it down to the river, perhaps barely/already starting to feel heat effects, and then spent hours trying to cool down, delaying coming back up, perhaps erroneously thinking it would cool down shortly after the sun went down.

My theory does not specify at what time they attempted to climb back up to the car -- could have been late afternoon, early evening, during the night, or even the next morning -- but obviously something prevented them from succeeding. Whether heat, or effects from illness (algae related or otherwise), or something else.

I do think that if only one of them was initially slowed by problems, they would have all stopped together to deal with it, at least at first.

Ellen leaving the phone with Jon suggests to me that he may have still be alive when she tried to continue on -- perhaps hoping against hope that he might get a signal or that she might be able to text him once help is on the way, etc.

MOO

 

[annpats]

I get a message that the article is not available in my area. So she survived in July and just now died? Horrifying. That article in the last thread about how dangerous hiking is was eye opening.

Well, she was in a hospital is Tucson for a few weeks then transferred to UPMC and was in there for a couple of weeks before she died.
She needed a double kidney and liver transplant, and she died during a subsequently operation to close her abdomen, as it was all too much for her weakened body.

 

[Figuring]

Another forum (non-WS) mentioned Ellen's traumatic brain injury and heat. Apparently TBIs are often lifelong conditions and they make a person more susceptible to heat. I know the TBI has been mentioned here but I don't think the heat factor in relation to it has been.

I mentioned this in an earlier thread, my comment was somewhat misunderstood at the time, but I still think it could be a relevant factor. Although a TBI can have happened 10+ years ago (as in Ellen’s case), it can have permanent cognitive effects, & can result in permanent sensitivity to certain conditions (whether heat, noise, bright light, etc). This is my field of work (administration of neuropsychological assessment of TBI).

 

[lotus777]

This has been mentioned before - and the fact that the TBI occurred over a decade ago. Since then she traveled to multiple hot places including Burning Man and the Gobi Desert. I mean, it's possible the TBI did make her more susceptible to heat, we don't know, but to me, it does not seem like a factor in this. MOO.

My comment noted the TBI had been mentioned before. But my search of the comments didn't find any mention of susceptibility to heat due to her TBI. The fact it was over a decade ago doesn't matter--like I said TBIs are often lifelong conditions. I'm certainly not saying this was definitely a factor but it could have been.

Travel experience at Burning Man and the Gobi Desert could also go the other way and make people overly confident about heat. At Burning Man they would have been surrounded by people and had supplies for several days in the desert, as well as the ability to hide from the sun. In the Gobi Desert they likely had guides. Someone posted (can't remember if it was here or another forum) that based on historical temps for the month they were there, it wasn't in the 100s.

 

[woods]

“The family was found 1½ miles below their truck on a series of switchbacks, appearing to be near the end of their hike.”

Sheriff officials said temperatures there appeared to range from 103 and 109 in certain parts of that trail between 11:50 a.m. and 5:50 p.m. Aug. 15, the day the family is believed to have been hiking it.
Mariposa sheriff shares update in mysterious family death case in Sierra near Yosemite

When the deputy found the truck, a search-and-rescue team hiked down the steep and straight road with flashlights and found shoe and paw prints similar to what you’d expect from a family of that size with a dog, Briese said.

At 3:20 a.m., the sheriff’s office reserved a search helicopter for daybreak. They called in a second search team that began winding down the switchbacks that complete the loop back up to the Forest Service gate. This section of the Hites Cove Trail makes a loop, with the halfway point the south fork of the Merced River.

About 1.5 miles down the switchbacks, around 11 a.m. Tuesday, the team found the family in the middle of the trail.
'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail

 

[Scrapper18]

I am most intrigued by the lightning idea.

RSBBM

I agree. This is becoming my number 1 theory, at present. JMO

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Thanks @Auntie Cipation. Your theory does sound plausible. I now see what you mean regarding the time of day they started back up, since we don't know time of death. IF heat wasn't a factor on the return trip up, being only 1.5 mi from the car is doubly horrible.
And yet, this still leaves the question why they would attempt this particular 8 mi hike in August, when the regulars of the Mariposa Trail Group say, or at least, intimate that no one hikes this trail in July and August.

 

[woods]

This photo shows the remote canyon area northeast of the town of Mariposa that is reported to be the area where the family and their dog were found dead
Trails where California family died closed to the public

 

[NSamuelle]

This photo shows the remote canyon area northeast of the town of Mariposa that is reported to be the area where the family and their dog were found dead
Trails where California family died closed to the public

This helpfully clarifies that the route was closed out of caution, not direct evidence - some less credible newspapers have used the closings to intimate that the COD was toxic algae: “We are uncertain of the causes of death. We still haven’t gotten the results from the case,” said Leak Pen, assistant recreation officer at the Bass Lake Ranger District, which oversees that portion of the Sierra National Forest. “So, as a precaution, let’s go ahead and close it because we know there’s some form of hazard to the public.”

 

[arrogantcat]

I agree, it's most interesting to see lightning gradually becoming (to my eyes, at least) one of the most prevalent theories here.

Fingers crossed the tox results aren't too far off now and that the relatives of this beautiful family can get some answers soon. I can only imagine the gut-wrenching pain they must be going through. This has clearly affected a good number of us strangers from around the world as well and I hope that whatever transpires to have happened in this tragic incident, we all become a lot more cautious when it comes to putting ourselves out there in nature's 'playground'. Things are scary out there, and we mustn't forget our place in it all.

(As an aside, @Curious_in_NC, I feel terrible to laugh but your comment about Murder Hornets did make me feel very grateful to be an ocean or two away from the US...!)

EDIT: as I wasn't sure of the policy on cussing here, and my attempts to censor a certain word didn't cut it!

Lightening would sort of be a “best case scenario” at this stage, too - nothing they could realistically have done to prevent it, a fast end with minimal suffering or fear.
Certainly an easier thought than heat or similar, which sounds horrific.

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