CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[minazoe]

well like the nose on our collective face it is the mere fact they were out there... that it is just so obviously not conceivable that they were out there to begin with. I mean we are here , all of us looking at this and saying something is not right with this picture...and that something is the fact they went there in the first place.

it feels like there has to be something other at play.. could they have lost something out there in days prior and they went to look for it not planning to stay long? like a pair of sunglasses or something? like there was no plan to stay and maybe they only down a bit and back from the end of the trail ? and then maybe something happened...maybe this was never a "hike" but something lite like run the dog..look for the glasses etc..go right back to the car...swing by new the house...

<modsnip>

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

I definitely never heard about the helicopter. Was this in an early thread?

I don't recall a report of a helicopter seeing them on the hike itself.

I don't believe that there were ANY eyewitness reports of seeing them actually on the hike itself. The only 'evidence' that they actually hiked was the fact that LE stated that footprints that could be attributed to them were found at the start of the HC Trail.

MOO

 

[Curious_in_NC]

Thank you for your kind response. I also checked his alltrails account and have done so over the course of several years. The first time he researched the HC trail was over four years ago and another about a year ago. I just wondered why it was assumed he’d taken that route on that day as I can’t find any evidence of anyone saying that. So why would LE have a ‘hunch’ that they’d hiked there when they were reported missing at 11pm on Monday? Just because they’d bought a property on Hites Cove Road?

Sorry for the detail. You're probably way more familiar with AllTrails than I am. So I can't really answer your question on what else LE could have found that steered them to the HC area. Since they didn't yet have his cell phone, maybe it was something found on his home computer? Maybe he printed out something?

 

[armchairagatha]

I think this thread is degenerating again into speculation of "how and why" they were even on the trail that day - it is inconceivable and so on. The fact is - they were there on that trail and there is no evidence pointing to anyone or anything forcing them to be there. So it is fair to assume they were there out of their own free will for reasons only known to them. MOO

 

[10ofRods]

well like the nose on our collective face it is the mere fact they were out there... that it is just so obviously not conceivable that they were out there to begin with. I mean we are here , all of us looking at this and saying something is not right with this picture...and that something is the fact they went there in the first place.

it feels like there has to be something other at play.. could they have lost something out there in days prior and they went to look for it not planning to stay long? like a pair of sunglasses or something? like there was no plan to stay and maybe they only down a bit and back from the end of the trail ? and then maybe something happened...maybe this was never a "hike" but something lite like run the dog..look for the glasses etc..go right back to the car...swing by new the house...

<modsnip - unless accompanied by a link it is considered rumor>

Their social media seems to indicate that they wanted to hike daily.

I think they were living in their new house.

They were pretty far away from any trailhead to just be "running the dog," who died with them and was found on scene (so must have been on leash tied to pack or something).

I think it's consistent with hikes that people take all the time out that way - except for time of day. Some people think heat won't get them.

 

[SophieRose]

Thank you for your kind response. I also checked his alltrails account and have done so over the course of several years. The first time he researched the HC trail was over four years ago and another about a year ago. I just wondered why it was assumed he’d taken that route on that day as I can’t find any evidence of anyone saying that. So why would LE have a ‘hunch’ that they’d hiked there when they were reported missing at 11pm on Monday? Just because they’d bought a property on Hites Cove Road?

Where did LE respond to the call that they were missing? When I looked at the police log for that date it shows 11 pm Hite Cove, so I assume they went to the new house. If so, not a stretch to look up the street at trails nearby.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Where did LE respond to the call that they were missing? When I looked at the police log for that date it shows 11 pm Hite Cove, so I assume they went to the new house. If so, not a stretch to look up the street at trails nearby.

So why didn’t the ‘friend’ or ‘nanny’ do that on Monday morning when they hadn’t returned home and couldn’t be contacted by phone?

 

[Pumphouse363]

H

Their social media seems to indicate that they wanted to hike daily.

I think they were living in their new house.

They were pretty far away from any trailhead to just be "running the dog," who died with them and was found on scene (so must have been on leash tied to pack or something).

I think it's consistent with hikes that people take all the time out that way - except for time of day. Some people think heat won't get them.

Have you seen the SL trail?

 

[SophieRose]

So why didn’t the ‘friend’ or ‘nanny’ do that on Monday morning when they hadn’t returned home and couldn’t be contacted by phone?

Actually I did wonder why they didn't call LE sooner.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

All of your reasoning here makes perfect sense to me, but it begs the question (and a few other WS contributors have wondered this also).. IF everything is pointing to heat exhaustion and it is becoming the most obvious thing (Occam's Razor), then why are LE seemingly so hesitant to say so?

Previous cases have been settled as COD caused by heat exhaustion far faster than this, and I get that they're still waiting for toxicology reports, but is there something else that's holding them back from just going down the 'obvious' heat stroke conclusion?

MOO

That is a good point. LE suggested some very improbable things, like carbon monoxide and rattlesnakes. Those have since been absolutely ruled out by the autopsy as there are clear signs. Heat stroke is subtle, it only takes a body temperature say 6 degrees higher than normal. The bodies were exposed to the blazing sun for almost two days before they were discovered, so I wouldn't be surprised if that made it difficult or impossible to determine that it was heat stroke. I'm sure LE are taking a close look at all the other evidence, and doing all the standard investigative work to determine the cause and manner of death while waiting for all that forensic evidence to come back. In the meantime, they may be deflecting people from blaming the victim by talking about carbon monoxide, rattlesnakes, and algae. That's my best guess, pure speculation.

 

[Satchie]

So why didn’t the ‘friend’ or ‘nanny’ do that on Monday morning when they hadn’t returned home and couldn’t be contacted by phone?

I thought about that.

I don't think it occurs to most people to call police, they just assume it's one of life's many snafu's.

"Maybe they forgot to let me know their change of plan.

"Or, maybe they're coming back from somewhere and caught in traffic/running late.

"Or, worst case, maybe they had to go to the hospital and are too preoccupied to contact me.

"I better wait and not make things worse for them by calling police, Police will get really mad at me if I waste their time".

 

[al66pine]

A group in the heat?
Group of four goes for walk/hike. Heat was as described by LE & MSM.

........................One in group has incapacitating event/med. condition, even temporary (1-2+ hrs?)
......................... Event, e.g., lightning strike, slip & fall, snake bite, ankle sprain from uneven ground, etc.
..........................Medical condition, e.g., TBI, epilepsy seizure, headache, food poisoning from breakfast, IBS, etc.
.....+ plus +
.......................Others in group, sit in heat & sun, wait (1-2+ hrs?)for the one to regain strength to walk
......................________________________________________________________________________________
... = equals = What outcome, after one is incapacitated?

W two adults plus a 1 y/o & a dog, an outcome of four deaths from heatstroke, if that's ME's conclusion, would not puzzle to me.

Bodies being found close together, as they were here? Thinking about other lost/injured-in-the wilderness cases, how some groups split up and others stayed clustered together. IDK, the extreme heat could make a difference.

Hoping M.E.'s findings will reveal what incapacitating event or medical condition may have led to these sad deaths.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

That's very good. Really shows the situation they faced, how barren and lifeless that trail is.

The choice of trail in that heat still mystifies me, and that they did not turn around. RIP Gerrish-Chung family.

 

[sfinkz]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't there a social media post (Instagram, I believe), before they set out on their hike showing an image of their backpack?…

MOO

I am glad you asked it. I did in my initial post because it struck me as rather bizarre. Seems to be taboo. Best response I received was ‘foreboding’. IIRC, as part of the first timeline, the last known contact was a 6:45 Sunday morning upload to social media of a baby carrier (without baby). Context is again crucial here. Maybe it was a gift and accompanying text said, ‘Wow, thanks! Can’t wait to try this baby out today!’ Or maybe it was image only. Seems strange. Since, however, no reference of this, not part of current timeline (which reads as a Saturday AllTrails search of Hites Cove something-or-other, a 7:45 am sighting of family Sunday (or maybe only vehicle) and then 11 pm MPR). The social media empty baby backpack image has since been glossed over. My understanding was the account the image originated from was private and thus not subject to our perusal? But is it privy to LE? Or perhaps they have questions of who uploaded it?

 

[NSamuelle]

I am glad you asked it. I did in my initial post because it struck me as rather bizarre. Seems to be taboo. Best response I received was ‘foreboding’. IIRC, as part of the first timeline, the last known contact was a 6:45 Sunday morning upload to social media of a baby carrier (without baby). Context is again crucial here. Maybe it was a gift and accompanying text said, ‘Wow, thanks! Can’t wait to try this baby out today!’ Or maybe it was image only. Seems strange. Since, however, no reference of this, not part of current timeline (which reads as a Saturday AllTrails search of Hites Cove something-or-other, a 7:45 am sighting of family Sunday (or maybe only vehicle) and then 11 pm MPR). The social media empty baby backpack image has since been glossed over. My understanding was the account the image originated from was private and thus not subject to our perusal? But is it privy to LE? Or perhaps they have questions of who uploaded it?

I’m curious about what type of carrier they had, because that would affect things like 1) how much of the dad’s body heat the baby was exposed to and 2) the decision to put the carrier on the ground with the baby still in it. LE called it a “kangaroo bag” and said it was not attached to the dad, which makes it sound unstructured. IMO, that would make the picture even stranger (if it was just a shot of a floppy kangaroo bag instead of a structured carrier).

 

[minazoe]

I don't think there is victim blaming necessarily..this is a tragedy and probably a horrible freak accident of nature.

it is a tragedy though and must be deciphered..cause of death and manner of death. no one is judging them.

mOO

 

[al66pine]

The evidence of possible lightning that has been posted is impressive sleuthing. I still discount that possibility, here's my reasoning, obviously just my own opinion....

@Lex Parsimoniae sbm As my post noted, IDK what happened, but saying if either Jonathon or Ellen had been struck & injured by lightning, the situation could have easily cascaded into the heatstroke deaths of all four.

For lightning to lead to all four deaths, imo it would not have taken a special magic lightning strike spanning hundreds of feet or yards to kill all of them directly. Coulda been a plain old ordinary bolt that temporarily incapacitated Jonathon or Ellen; then while waiting a few/several hours for him/her to "come around," they may have all died of heat stroke.

Imo just one of many possibilities.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

I am glad you asked it. I did in my initial post because it struck me as rather bizarre. Seems to be taboo. Best response I received was ‘foreboding’. IIRC, as part of the first timeline, the last known contact was a 6:45 Sunday morning upload to social media of a baby carrier (without baby). Context is again crucial here. Maybe it was a gift and accompanying text said, ‘Wow, thanks! Can’t wait to try this baby out today!’ Or maybe it was image only. Seems strange. Since, however, no reference of this, not part of current timeline (which reads as a Saturday AllTrails search of Hites Cove something-or-other, a 7:45 am sighting of family Sunday (or maybe only vehicle) and then 11 pm MPR). The social media empty baby backpack image has since been glossed over. My understanding was the account the image originated from was private and thus not subject to our perusal? But is it privy to LE? Or perhaps they have questions of who uploaded it?

I find it particularly striking in that Ellen's posts to Insta had become fairly infrequent since having the baby. Or am I incorrect and that it was not posted to her account?

 

[sfinkz]

I find it particularly striking in that Ellen's posts to Insta had become fairly infrequent since having the baby. Or am I incorrect and that it was not posted to her account?

I would tend to disagree. Despite the framing in hedlines of ‘Google guy’ or ‘Techie transplants’, among high-profile cases (from the viral ‘van life’ to the humble Phil Kreycik and his Strava watch I know I woulda geeked out on back in the day). this has the least connection to social media. Which is consistent of ‘techies’ I know, generally low-profile and extremely protective of their children’s exposure.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

If you note on this occasion it says a relative reported them missing, in other reports it says the nanny reported them missing and yet others state it was Rosanna Heaslett who informed LE - that’s why I’m reluctant to become a verified contributor because the written word often gets distorted and misinterpreted.

I wanted to comment that becoming a verified insider does not obligate you to post or provide information in any way. You can still be as circumspect as you choose based on what family prefers to be known or not, your own comfort zone, etc. It simply means you have fewer "requirements" on this site to back any statements you do make with mainstream media links.

It is an awfully sad story about Philip and I don’t want to diminish the gravity of the tragedy if his death - but he didn’t take his wife snd children on the run with him. That would have been as ridiculous as Jon taking Ellen, Miju and Oski on the SL trail MOO

Just a bit of stream of consciousness thinking here, inspired by your post. I came up with one possible scenario that is quite different from all that has been considered so far. I don't think this is likely, but as we've seen, nothing about this story seems to fit within the realm of what's likely.

What if only one of them -- Jon, presumably -- was dropped off somewhere, set out on a hike, something went wrong, and Ellen (along w baby and dog) came later in a rescue attempt? Still doesn't make any sense though.

MOO