CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[RickshawFan]

There has been quite a bit of discussion about lightning. But, I know for me, it's been hard to visualize how people experience lightning and what the effect is.

I came across this excellent presentation by Colorado's Alpine Rescue Team. They use it for training SAR. I found almost every minute potentially relevant to this case, and definitely relevant to my own outdoor adventures (and even how to think of my safety indoors during a thunderstorm).

BTW there is also commentary about why a dog is more likely to get killed by lightning than a human....

Lightning Awareness - Alpine Rescue Team

 

[carbuff]

There has been quite a bit of discussion about lightning. But, I know for me, it's been hard to visualize how people experience lightning and what the effect is.

I came across this excellent presentation by Colorado's Alpine Rescue Team. They use it for training SAR. I found almost every minute potentially relevant to this case, and definitely relevant to my own outdoor adventures (and even how to think of my safety indoors during a thunderstorm).

BTW there is also commentary about why a dog is more likely to get killed by lightning than a human....

Lightning Awareness - Alpine Rescue Team

Thanks. You always find the best sources for outdoor activity and safe practices.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

The weird thing here, to me, is that apparently all four bodies were found together (I think). That would confuse the medical examiner. You'd think that one would go down (but then, another one would then administer first aid). Surely they were trying to cool the baby. I hope, I hope. If they suddenly discovered that the baby was unconscious and not just sleeping, as they had thought, then what would they do? Would they realize it was heat? I think so. So what then? Their water container would have been out of the pack or off their back, right?

Wouldn't one of them attempt to run the baby to the safety of the air-conditioned car? If the baby was already very ill, perhaps they stopped to administer whatever first aid they could, and each one rapidly. passed out in succession (sorry for the grim speculation, but usually the ME would expect to find heat stroke victims spaced out - as each adult would continue trying to move toward shade/safety, taking the baby...)

I think I can shed light on it. We're well past our prime now, but ~40 yrs ago my wife and I were hiking (and backpacking) with our baby and dog. These days we walk or hike nearly every day with our dog, and this time of year have to take heat and toxic algae into consideration. We live an hour drive north of San Francisco, and 3 or 4 hours from Mariposa. We organized hundreds of hikes and other outings for our club, so we have a lot of experience with hiking, and things going wrong on hikes including the death of a dear friend from a heart attack. I have NEVER hiked up a long, steep climb in that kind of heat. I don't think I've ever done any hiking in that kind of heat. I agree with Runswithdogs comments about the effect of heat on dogs, my dogs have less tolerance than I do. My opinion is that the dog and adults were all suffering severely from the heat and exertion of the climb, but the dog collapsed first. This happened either where they were found or the dog was carried there. JG was older, some photos show him with a bit of a paunch, and he was carrying the baby (and maybe the dog). He was the next to overheat and be unable to go on, either after carrying the dog a short distance or after stopping where the dog collapsed. EC was younger and thinner, and not carrying the baby, so the last to overheat. Leave your husband, baby and dog? No, she would have stayed with them and done what she could as she overheated too, which wouldn't take long. At that point she went for help, but only made it 100 feet/30m before collapsing. I have no experience with extreme heat and babies, and it's just too sad to contemplate, so I'm not going to speculate about that beautiful child. In that kind of heat, and steep slope, there is no "running" to the air conditioned truck. Continuing up that steep slope in that heat was not survivable, staying where they were in that heat with no shade was not survivable, and by then it was too far to go back down to where there was shade. There was no way out once they were in the middle of those switchbacks. My own opinion, based on decades of hiking, and planning and organizing hundreds of hikes.

 

[mickey2942]

@Lex Parsimoniae is right. That is the conclusion most of us have come to...and I think that they started the hike earlier in the morning, when it wasn't quite so hot. They just were not used to high desert weather, when it can be relatively (deceptively) cooler in the morning, and go to scorching hot by even 10 or 11.

Interesting that Yosemite is classified as "moderate Mediterranean" by Koppen Climate classification, because that area is more like Vegas to me, hot and dry, maybe due to climate change.

Environmental Issues - Yosemite National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

 

[rahod1]

For me the real mystery in this tragic saga will forever evade us. That's because the question as to *WHY* will never be revealed. At best, LE may be able provide the *HOW* as to the cause of death. <modsnip>

 

[jonjon747]

I can't help thinking that they possibly went down the wrong trail. They thought it was the shorter one but ended up on the longer, brutal one. I think I read somewhere there was an easier trail with the same name or something. And possibly then, they didn't realize their mistake until it was too late. Somehow an honest mistake like that seems more palatable than a gross misjudgment of deliberately trying to do that brutal 7.5 or 8 mile trail under those hot conditions with a baby and dog in tow. RIP.

They could've gone into the wrong trail but wouldn't they've known by the time the merced river near the trail is really long, narrow and it gets tougher to hike?
I have a serious doubt that they would continue on with their baby and dog rather than simply turn back trying to head back to their vehicle.
Unless the investigator has found a clear evidence to their hiked route, it's going to be difficult to rule out anything for sure.

 

[jonjon747]

Does anyone here know roughly how long it'd take to finish rounding the loop of savage-lundy trail?
A web search shows it's approx 8 miles in distance.
Say they were to walk about the speed of 1 mph(taking the account of carrying a baby and dog through steep/rough trails), it'd take them 8 hours to complete considering they hiked without resting once.

Even if they started hiking in the morning, they would be in the middle of the switchback trail around 6 pm or thereafter.

 

[Seattle1]

I think I can shed light on it. We're well past our prime now, but ~40 yrs ago my wife and I were hiking (and backpacking) with our baby and dog. These days we walk or hike nearly every day with our dog, and this time of year have to take heat and toxic algae into consideration. We live an hour drive north of San Francisco, and 3 or 4 hours from Mariposa. We organized hundreds of hikes and other outings for our club, so we have a lot of experience with hiking, and things going wrong on hikes including the death of a dear friend from a heart attack. I have NEVER hiked up a long, steep climb in that kind of heat. I don't think I've ever done any hiking in that kind of heat. I agree with Runswithdogs comments about the effect of heat on dogs, my dogs have less tolerance than I do. My opinion is that the dog and adults were all suffering severely from the heat and exertion of the climb, but the dog collapsed first. This happened either where they were found or the dog was carried there. JG was older, some photos show him with a bit of a paunch, and he was carrying the baby (and maybe the dog). He was the next to overheat and be unable to go on, either after carrying the dog a short distance or after stopping where the dog collapsed. EC was younger and thinner, and not carrying the baby, so the last to overheat. Leave your husband, baby and dog? No, she would have stayed with them and done what she could as she overheated too, which wouldn't take long. At that point she went for help, but only made it 100 feet/30m before collapsing. I have no experience with extreme heat and babies, and it's just too sad to contemplate, so I'm not going to speculate about that beautiful child. In that kind of heat, and steep slope, there is no "running" to the air conditioned truck. Continuing up that steep slope in that heat was not survivable, staying where they were in that heat with no shade was not survivable, and by then it was too far to go back down to where there was shade. There was no way out once they were in the middle of those switchbacks. My own opinion, based on decades of hiking, and planning and organizing hundreds of hikes.

Thanks for your honest, respectful insight @Lex Parsimoniae. I'm truly amazed how so many do not seem to comprehend that active, outdoor lives with canines and infants existed long before cellular phones. Happy trails. x

 

[rahod1]

Does anyone here know roughly how long it'd take to finish rounding the loop of savage-lundy trail?
A web search shows it's approx 8 miles in distance.
Say they were to walk about the speed of 1 mph(taking the account of carrying a baby and dog through steep/rough trails), it'd take them 8 hours to complete considering they hiked without resting once.

Even if they started hiking in the morning, they would be in the middle of the switchback trail around 6 pm or thereafter.

Just MOO>>>> 4 hrs with 2MPH ave. I assume IF they decided to take the entire loop starting at 8AM, they would anticipate finishing around noon. Just a hunch.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

Just MOO>>>> 4 hrs with 2MPH ave. I assume IF they decided to take the entire loop starting at 8AM, they would anticipate finishing around noon. Just a hunch.

2 MPH is pretty much in line with JG's hikes recorded at AllTrails a few months earlier (~25-30 min/mile pace). These hikes may or may not have been with others. One fast hike on May 18 was at 19 min/mile pace. I would guess that was by himself. That's a bit faster than the average hiker pace.

 

[Seattle1]

2 MPH is pretty much in line with JG's hikes recorded at AllTrails a few months earlier (~25-30 min/mile pace). These hikes may or may not have been with others. One fast hike on May 18 was at 19 min/mile pace. I would guess that was by himself. That's a bit faster than the average hiker pace.

We know that the family lived within 15 minutes of the trail and that JG searched Hites Cove on his phone app on Saturday. It seems to me that they arrived at the planned location, probably around 8 AM, and had no reason whatsoever to push themselves on this specific date. It's not like they couldn't return to Hites Cove on another day! I can't think of any reason why they would have hesitated to leave after 2 hours or less, unless they were somehow incapacitated. MOO

 

[rahod1]

I can't think of any reason why they would have hesitated to leave after 2 hours or less unless they were somehow incapacitated. MOO

For me 2 hrs would be a stretch. The temperature was 92 in Portola (shade) at 9AM
so 30 min into the hike *should* have been heads up. Just MOO

 

[mickey2942]

@rahod1 it is a lesson on communication and marriage. Most spouses want to make the other one "happy", even if sometimes you end up doing something you would rather not...

This exact scenario came up with my husband and I the other day, and we have been together for over 10 years! And it was an interesting analysis in a complete breakdown in communication for us, because neither one wanted to let down the other one...thinking that he/she wanted to do something. So, we were both miserable, trying to make the other person "happy".

I can see this playing out, maybe he wanted to go on this hike, she pretends enthusiasm, rather than be a "buzzkill". They get there, he realizes it was not what he thought, but...thinks she really wants to do this hike...and off they go, making each other "happy".

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Thank you for posting this. I had a heat stroke when I was 16. I grew up in the hot, humid south and I am proof that no matter how acclimated you may be, heat can and does kill.
By the time I realized that I needed to get out of the heat, it was too late. I could not move. I sat down , just like JG. There was a cold water shower ( It was at a beach) literally within my reach but I could not crawl, lift an arm, nothing. Never had I been so weak and helpless. I would have died had someone not noticed me and given me help. They packed me in ice while waiting for the EMT's. It took ES 15 minutes to get there. My temperature after being packed in ice for 15 minutes was 105F. I have no idea what it was before the ice.
There isn't one doubt in my mind that this is heat stroke and nothing else. Unless you have experienced it or have seen someone else stricken, you just can not imagine how quickly it kills. It incapacitates you before realize you are in danger. Your mind doesn't register things and you are drained of energy.
If no ice , cold water, air conditioning, or emergency services are immediately available, death will occur within 30 minutes.
It has been difficult for me to map the Savage Lundy Trail and look at the hot, desolate, dystopian terrain and imagine the hellish heat that day.
We will never know why they made the decision to hike that trail in the extreme heat with a baby and a dog.
I just hope they went quickly.
Just want to add that I am now extremely heat sensitive. I also have MS and most people with MS are heat sensitive as well. One thing I have felt for the last two years is that the sun, heat, they are different. Hotter, deadly now. The sun doesn't feel the same, it almost feels alien. It truly frightens me as I live in the hot, very humid south. I have a pathological fear of the heat now. Never do I want to experience the hell of my brain cooking inside my head again.

I am so glad you got help and were ok. I also had a heat emergency and was fortunate for people to come along and help me. I was unable to understand the gravity of the situation until I also could not move. Even with assistance, ice, immersion in cold water, electrolytes, etc, it took more than 48 hours before I felt well again. On a trail, with time short it can easily go very badly for humans and canines.

The SL trail is so steep, looking at the Google Earth images gave me chills. People who think commitment to their daughter, etc would somehow enable them to transcend the limits of the human body, it just does not work that way. You might get a momentary burst of adrenaline to fight a bobcat or lift a car off your child but as the brain overheats and organs begin to fail, it is not something adrenaline or mind over matter can help with.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

For me the real mystery in this tragic saga will forever evade us. That's because the question as to *WHY* will never be revealed. At best, LE may be able provide the *HOW* as to the cause of death. <modsnip>

I agree that we'll never know exactly why this happened, it's not something that would be included in a last text message, but here's my best guess. At the end, they had only a "small amount" of water left, according to the sheriff. It seems probable to me that the humans did NOT drink the water from the river, if they had been desperate enough to do that they would have refilled the camelback. There has been plenty of time to test the water in the camelback, and no word, but they HAVE reported that toxic algae was found in samples from the river. My guess: the camelback came back negative and the sheriff didn't think that was newsworthy. I think they heeded the warnings about not drinking the water, or coming into contact with it, and knew they were running out of safe water. As Runningwithdogs says, the dog would have been suffering in the heat, and likely the baby too. Those three things might have motivated them to hurry up the trail to the safety of their truck. Indirectly, the toxic algae led to their deaths. MOO.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

I seem to recall early in the threads someone posted a photo of the gate at the top of the S-L trail. Or maybe it was in an article? If anyone has that at hand could you repost it please?

Where my mind is going is this: if there is a gate, perhaps Ellen's intention on going ahead (or trying to) without taking JG's phone, was she was intending to try to open the gate and drive the truck down the trail to where JG/baby/dog were?

I don't know if the trail is wide enough for that but even if she drove half-on, half-off, not anything you'd normally do but in an emergency...

Of course the gate would probably be locked, but we don't know whether she knew that or not.

Also of course, assuming the family set off down the HC trail (ie hiked the loop rather than down-and-back), they may not have even seen the gate (they parked farther up at the Y with the other trail IIRC).

On the other hand since they live nearby they may very well have seen the gate before in their explorations.

Just a thought about her possible intent. MOO

The weird thing here, to me, is that apparently all four bodies were found together (I think). That would confuse the medical examiner. You'd think that one would go down (but then, another one would then administer first aid). Surely they were trying to cool the baby. I hope, I hope. If they suddenly discovered that the baby was unconscious and not just sleeping, as they had thought, then what would they do? Would they realize it was heat? I think so. So what then? Their water container would have been out of the pack or off their back, right?

Wouldn't one of them attempt to run the baby to the safety of the air-conditioned car? If the baby was already very ill, perhaps they stopped to administer whatever first aid they could, and each one rapidly. passed out in succession (sorry for the grim speculation, but usually the ME would expect to find heat stroke victims spaced out - as each adult would continue trying to move toward shade/safety, taking the baby...)

The SL trail is extremely steep, so much so that there is even a series of switchbacks, which is where the family was found. I don't think it would be physically possible to "run to the car" even in an emergency and the adults were likely both compromised by heat. There was a Google Earth link in a prior thread that really gave a sense of the huge change in elevation in one mile of the trail. Combined with the heat it would be daunting and the switchbacks receive direct sun in the afternoon. Locals are said to avoid the trail in the summer, sadly, this meant that no one came upon them who could render aid or summon help.

 

[gitana1]

This strikes me as odd too. Especially when there's a chance you could be separated. We even have different providers in case one person has better coverage than the other. With a young child, I'd think you'd want communication backup, but maybe because they lived so close to these trails, there was a feeling of safety.

When I hike with my partner I’m quite often the only one who carries a phone. We figure we just need one.

 

[sfinkz]

…Indirectly, the toxic algae led to their deaths. MOO.

I’m with you, speculating as such in detail 1800 posts ago.

The sad irony is that despite their many underestimations, the one overestimation—the threat of the cautionary algal warning—led to their doom.

Their intended destination, the South Fork, was their antidote that fateful day. Tragically, they dismissed it. OOO

 

[gitana1]

This is great info - I would add instant ice packs to the list (technically not “ice,” you crush a pouch inside the pack and it combines with the contents to create cold that mimics ice). Very useful for back of neck, armpit, groin if you need to lower core temp. About $1-2 each.

Thanks to you I bought some.

 

[gitana1]

Wowser, now those truly are killer temperatures. For me in snowy ol' England that's almost unbearable to even think about!

In a strange way, I wonder if the family will feel they have any closure if a COD of heatstroke is determined but only because everything else has been ruled out as an alternative?

So there may not be strong evidence to suggest heatstroke as far as an initial conclusion for COD, but.. "Well, it's not X, and it can't be Y, and the tests have shown it's definitely not Z, therefore that only leaves heatstroke".

I understand the process of elimination technique, but it sometimes doesn't always feel as definitive and conclusive as maybe it should.

I suppose for the family, the 'unequivocals' are maybe not important. Any room for doubt or ambiguity regarding the actual COD would surely be superceded by the knowledge that J&E, their baby, and the dog didn't suffer, and I really hope that is the case.

Apparently heat stroke can be hard to determine post mortem.