GUILTY CA - Lana Clarkson, 40, fatally shot, Alhambra, 3 Feb 2003

[Wrinkles]

Well then...

I have really appreciated Judge Fiddler, but he surprised me today when he said he "admired" but disagreed. How can you admire someone who is standing their ground to be in contempt, particularly when you have already stated, repeatedly, that their reason for contempt (privilege) is incorrect? Although Sara (Sarah) appears to be a sympathetic enough person, her contempt is not admirable, in my opinion.

Also...what is the standard here? How often are those who are held in contempt permitted to stay out of jail while they await an appeal? This feels like punishing without punishment. In fact, it feels like Judge Fiddler is allowing that he could be in error - so "We'll wait until the big boys double check me." Is that typical? Or is this a case of privileging someone who is an attorney? IF Caplan had thought that she would have to remain in jail until the end of the trial, instead of receiving the privilege (during her contempt) to remain out of jail, might she have double thought moving forward in her contempt?

But that leads me to a question that someone could clarify. I have heard two things with the contemp, 1) only 5 days in jail for contempt OR 2) remaining in jail until the end of the trial.

Where am I wrong here, what is her possible punishment for contempt?

AND...if the appeal finds that she is NOT in contempt, I am going to be BURNT! Attorneys are not above the law, that appeal finding her to be would be like creating a set of "gods" here and that is frightening.

W

 

[lisafremont]

Based on AJ's OS, I can venture a guess of how they will argue the blood spatter and it's a good, common sense argument: the tiny specks of blood spatter on his jacket match the tiny specks on her lap. We know how far her lap was from her mouth, hence the gun, so therefore we can infer the distance his jacket was.

So the defense can argue what they will but that doesn't mean it will carry the day, esp. considering all the evidence.

And btw, how did Dr. Pain-ya become Dr Peen-ya? It's annoying. The defense annoys me. Her coughing annoys me.

 

[lisafremont]

The judge's statement that her stand is admirable doesn't bother me even though I don't agree with it.

The contempt charge is being done very carefully so that it will withstand scrutiny. And I believe the Judge feels he is on solid ground, but doesn't want to make a technical error.

As to the stay--- He knows it will be appealed, might as well hold off on carrying through. JF is confident he will be upheld but wants to dot his i's.

This is coercive contempt and means she could be held until the trial is over. But there is a provision that if it's clear to the judge that the jailing will not bring about cooperation, the judge may turn the coercive to "punitive" which has a limit of 5 days and then she might be freed.

I agree that she should just sit there and cool her jets.

 

[panthera]

Based on AJ's OS, I can venture a guess of how they will argue the blood spatter and it's a good, common sense argument: the tiny specks of blood spatter on his jacket match the tiny specks on her lap. We know how far her lap was from her mouth, hence the gun, so therefore we can infer the distance his jacket was.

So the defense can argue what they will but that doesn't mean it will carry the day, esp. considering all the evidence.

And btw, how did Dr. Pain-ya become Dr Peen-ya? It's annoying. The defense annoys me. Her coughing annoys me.

I agree regarding the blood spatter analysis. I'm also glad we're on to another witness since the repetitive cross-exam by LKB was getting quite boring. GSR was actually brake dust from a European car??? GMAB! Spector didn't even drive the car let alone do work on it! :doh:

 

[LaMer]

snipped~

This is coercive contempt and means she could be held until the trial is over. But there is a provision that if it's clear to the judge that the jailing will not bring about cooperation, the judge may turn the coercive to "punitive" which has a limit of 5 days and then she might be freed.

I agree that she should just sit there and cool her jets.

Lisa, thank you for explaining the contempt. I had heard it explained--short memory here.

 

[lisafremont]

I agree regarding the blood spatter analysis. I'm also glad we're on to another witness since the repetitive cross-exam by LKB was getting quite boring. GSR was actually brake dust from a European car??? GMAB! Spector didn't even drive the car let alone do work on it! :doh:

I had to leave my flat around 5:30 EDT so I missed some of this scintillating cross!! Was she actually suggesting that the GSR on Spector was from a European car???

I did get to see Judge Fidler step in to the repetitive questioning, and although he couched it as directed to BOTH sides, we -- and the jury -- know which side asks the already answered questions!

Who was the next witness? Dr Herold?

 

[Wrinkles]

Howdy all,

I thought I would have a quick look to see if there were similarities in chemical composition between GSR and brake dust. Interesting...
Found the MDIAI webpage:

>>
Myth# 4 Other environmental sources for example automotive brake pads can produce particles which can be falsely identified as GSR.

Fact: The scanning electron microscope is used to identify GSR by its elemental composition and morphology or shape. Only GSR particles are known to contain the spherical morphology with the Lead, Barium and Antimony composition, therefore ruling out that any other source could have produced these particles.
<<

Also... Let's say no GSR was found on Spector. The above mentioned webpage says:

>>
Myth# 2: If no gunshot residue is identified, the subject could not have fired a gun.

Fact: GSR is easily removed from the hands with normal activity such as wiping, sweating, and placing of hands in a pocket. Most if not all of any GSR present on hands can be removed by the washing of the hands. The type of ammunition or weapon used may not cause a significant amount of GSR to be deposited on the hands of the shooter. For example, in case involving long barreled guns, the distance from the end of the barrel to the shooters=s hands may be too great to allow GSR to be deposited. Therefore, the lack of GSR does not mean that a subject did not discharge a weapon.
<<

So...whether or not there was GSR on Spector, he still could have shot the gun.

BTW, Myth 4 and Myth 7 discuss the length of time within which it is best to check for GSR, also checking GSR on inanimate objects.

Where was the European brake dust found?

How soon after Spector shot Lana (should I say, "allegedly shot?" yeesh) did he or his clothing get tested for GSR. How many times did he wash himself before he let police near him? How much time did he have the opportunity to wash himself?

But... "Why" the note of brake dust from a "European" car? Perhaps the chemical composition of "European car" brake dust is more like that of GSR? Either way smoke and mirrors.

W

PS. Lisa, thanks for your mention of your common sense spatter argument - seems reasonable.

 

[lisafremont]

Just catching up with Bloom and Politan this morning and see that Vinnie is wild-eyed and ridiculous with piffle today, rabid over the Sara Caplan issue and the tiny white object that is missing.

So I sent this email courtesy of the CTV site:
Vinnie:
What has happened to you? You used to be a pretty reasonable guy with common sense. Lately you just spout defense drivel. And now you have completely lost your mind over the Sara Caplan issue.
VINNIE--- Robert Freaking Shapiro ADMITTED that the defense team found the tiny piece of evidence the sheriffs missed.
And btw, Spector's rug was filthy. It's not surprising that the acrylic chip was missed.
And Lisa is right-- the differences in the testimony make them all the more believable. If they were telling identical stories you'd be saying it was rehearsed!
IF the little white piece of evidence had been helpful to the defense you can bet they would have turned it over. Because they did not, I have to infer it was very damaging to their case.
Dr Lee has been peddling his purchased piffle from the stand for YEARS. You were the reporter for the Michael Peterson case. I suppose you believed him when he told the jury "too much blood for a beating"??
Or how about the "second set of footprints" in the Simpson case which turned out to be trowel marks in the concrete?
Dr Henry Lee's reputation was shattered a long time ago in minds unclouded by personally knowing him.
It's a shame that you have been drinking the Spector KoolAid.
Sober up!!

 

[Ragnar]

Just catching up with Bloom and Politan this morning and see that Vinnie is wild-eyed and ridiculous with piffle today, rabid over the Sara Caplan issue and the tiny white object that is missing.

So I sent this email courtesy of the CTV site:
Vinnie:
What has happened to you? You used to be a pretty reasonable guy with common sense. Lately you just spout defense drivel. And now you have completely lost your mind over the Sara Caplan issue.
VINNIE--- Robert Freaking Shapiro ADMITTED that the defense team found the tiny piece of evidence the sheriffs missed.
And btw, Spector's rug was filthy. It's not surprising that the acrylic chip was missed.
And Lisa is right-- the differences in the testimony make them all the more believable. If they were telling identical stories you'd be saying it was rehearsed!
IF the little white piece of evidence had been helpful to the defense you can bet they would have turned it over. Because they did not, I have to infer it was very damaging to their case.
Dr Lee has been peddling his purchased piffle from the stand for YEARS. You were the reporter for the Michael Peterson case. I suppose you believed him when he told the jury "too much blood for a beating"??
Or how about the "second set of footprints" in the Simpson case which turned out to be trowel marks in the concrete?
Dr Henry Lee's reputation was shattered a long time ago in minds unclouded by personally knowing him.
It's a shame that you have been drinking the Spector KoolAid.
Sober up!!

Gee, Lisa, it's a shame you don't actually have a strong opinion regarding this. You've really got to work on generating some intensity here.

 

[lisafremont]

Anita Talbot makes me sick. She knew of his reputation with guns and wanted to be sure she wasn't alone with him in the castle and yet she thinks he didn't do this.

'He's one of the biggest survivors I ever met. He survived rock and roll. He's too smart to have killed someone."

SHE is an idiot!!

 

[Niner]

Yes, it IS good to see more posters here who are interested in this trial posting and discussing this case! I too, usually just lurk and read here!

Welcome All!!

AlwaysShocked - you were questioning the 22 broken bones in her wrist - actually I broke 26 bones in my left wrist... compound fracture... ouch! Yes, there are THAT many bones & more in your wrists!

 

[lisafremont]

Gee, Lisa, it's a shame you don't actually have a strong opinion regarding this. You've really got to work on generating some intensity here.

I am working on generating a lot of intensity here. Where have ya been??

 

[Intrepid1]

Anita Talbot makes me sick. She knew of his reputation with guns and wanted to be sure she wasn't alone with him in the castle and yet she thinks he didn't do this.

'He's one of the biggest survivors I ever met. He survived rock and roll. He's too smart to have killed someone."

SHE is an idiot!!

Hi Lisa! I find it humorous that she said that in the beginning of her friendship with PS she always made sure there was someone else in the house with them when she went there. Now she says he couldn't have killed anyone....

Yeah, Ms Talbot, that's why you wouldn't be alone with him, because "he couldn't have killed anyone"!

She makes me laugh, and she makes me wish I could throw something at my tv screen and break it into many, many small pieces.

:crazy:

 

[Ragnar]

I am working on generating a lot of intensity here. Where have ya been??

Traveling last week: jet-lagged yesterday, and also a ton of work to catch up with once I returned.

I did catch the SC contempt smackdown. I feel badly for her to the extent that she's being thrown under the bus to protect the dubious and highly tarnished reputation of HL. IMO she ought to just tell the truth and let HL worry about himself. Of course, the privilege belongs to the client, not the attorney, and if PS continues to assert it SC doesn't have a lot of choice, Judge Fidler's ruling notwithstanding.

 

[lisafremont]

Anita says that any alcohol was "through Phil's system" and yes, he ordered a lot of drinks but that doesn't mean he drank them. He liked to order a lot of drinks so he could leave big tips! He could have ordered a 1000 drinks and only had 1 or 2 of them!!

"There is no way if he was sober he would have shot anyone." -- Anita Talbert/Talbot

Ah, but DRUNK, Anita?? But DRUNK?? Implicit is that drunk he could have.

Lana was drunk according to this wingnut. "Personally, the way I think it went down" she says is that Lana was drunk and walking with the gun in her mouth around singing and dancing his songs, trying to show off, trying to get a job with him.

She's is an even bigger idiot than I thought.

From "things she heard the day after the shooting." Hmmm. I wonder who she could have heard things from?

 

[Intrepid1]

Anybody know where the original juror information (their questionaire answers) could have come from? Not just a post, the original source. Sprocket is searching for an original source - she need it before she goes to court this afternoon.....

TIA

 

[Ragnar]

Anybody know where the original juror information (their questionaire answers) could have come from? Not just a post, the original source. Sprocket is searching for an original source - she need it before she goes to court this afternoon.....

TIA

Somebody posted it over at CTV and was constructing a spreadsheet. Was that you?

I'd have to look to see where that person said they got the jury demographics.

 

[Intrepid1]

Somebody posted it over at CTV and was constructing a spreadsheet. Was that you?

I'd have to look to see where that person said they got the jury demographics.

Yeah, I did the spread sheet, but I got the info from ChronicTonic's post (it didn't show original source).

I think it's on the LA Times website, and I'm not registered to be able to get into that info. Maybe Sprock is, though.

 

[Ragnar]

Yeah, I did the spread sheet, but I got the info from ChronicTonic's post (it didn't show original source).

I think it's on the LA Times website, and I'm not registered to be able to get into that info. Maybe Sprock is, though.

I think I'm registered there, at least for non-premium content. I'll check and see.

 

[Intrepid1]

I think I'm registered there, at least for non-premium content. I'll check and see.

Here's the link I got:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/spector/2007/04/post.html

Hope it works.