CA CA - Lance Perkins, 43, San Diego, 23 Oct 2016

[Lilibet]

One of the news articles indicated the footage showed him heading West out of the hospital, which would put him heading in the direction of the canyon. I work in the area and it can be sketchy at night.

:welcome:

Thanks for your input, StarFishT. Do you happen to know how easy it would be to fall into the canyon? I've assumed it's pretty easy. He had been having blackouts. Or are there trails he could have taken into the canyon and fallen? I posted upthread about a patient who left the hospital and ended up in the canyon dead, so that seems most likely to me. Unless he ran into sketchy people.

 

[TravelingBug]

:welcome:

Thanks for your input, StarFishT. Do you happen to know how easy it would be to fall into the canyon? I've assumed it's pretty easy. He had been having blackouts. Or are there trails he could have taken into the canyon and fallen? I posted upthread about a patient who left the hospital and ended up in the canyon dead, so that seems most likely to me. Unless he ran into sketchy people.

It's certainly possible to fall, and the canyon area ranges in terrain. Unfortunately violence in the area is certainly also a possibility.

That entire general area around both UCSD Hillcrest and Scripps Mercy tends to have a very large transient population, many of whom tend to live in / take shelter in the various canyons (and further down the hill under the 8) in the SD riverbed areas.

Similarly both hospitals have HEAVY use of their ERs as 'shelter' by people who come in and basically have a new medical complaint round the clock, just in order to be able to have somewhere they can sit and not be kicked out.

It's made it a challenge as security tries to juggle things, particularly as even more and more patients brought in by ALS end up leaving b/c of long wait times, when many technically 'waiting' aren't really there wanting treatment necessarily, just coming up with something knowing they'll be hours of a wait for something non-severe, and it gives them a place to be for awhile before they return again.

In addition, both hospitals have an increasing number of walk aways, though that's increasingly true everywhere if you really listen to radio traffic, but both hospitals are very good about advising PD if it's an actual patient who has walked away to ask them to keep an eye out in the area and/or in case someone matching the description turns up elsewhere for any reason.

They obviously can't do that with someone who's just come and is waiting in the ER - as people by the hundreds ER hop when they don't like the wait time, when they see a particular doctor they might want to avoid (in the case of 'frequent fliers') etc.

Unfortunately I hear at least a handful every night that are walkaway calls, some even still with IVs in, but many at least in hospital gowns and with wristbands on even. But obviously they can't obligate someone to stay, though of course some just aren't clear-minded enough to be as cognizant of their choices as others. :-/

ABLE, our SDPD helicopter is frequently over that area, and I can think of several dozen calls in just the last few weeks when he has used his FLIR to extensively search the canyons around those hospitals for one reason or another (mostly possible prowler calls, a few accidents, some assaults, etc.) looking for victims or suspects.

Many of those living a transient lifestyle tend to form pretty tightknit communities, and even outside of those who have formed some sort of 'community,' many do a good job of looking out for another and/or calling if they see someone down or something.

Actually the SD community at large really has gotten better about it. To the point that many times a night the same transient will be the subject of multiple welfare check calls because someone out walking/hiking stumbles on someone sleeping in a canyon or along a trail (or even somewhere more public) and the person thinks they are 'down' or even dead and they're just trying to sleep somewhere.

More than searching the canyon - parts of which would be very difficult (parts of which it's very hard for even SDFD to access with all their S&R equipment and they've had to use copters to assist w/ things in in the past) it might be more expedient to get some people to make contact in the heaviest populated nearby known transient gathering points and also shelters (any locals and/or PD can steer people to a number in the area) and bring flyers and ask them to keep an eye out/spread the word, as you're likely to have people who may pass through some of the same areas and/or also interacted with him at some point.

Finally, PD typically goes out on foot and uses ABLE to advise from above in the canyons and riverbed areas prior to any larger impending storms and/or major cold spells because of the number of rescues they otherwise end up needing to perform, as well as to try to help ward off the major issue of fires (just had a pretty large one in the riverbed not all that far from there about 10 days ago - though smaller out of control ones are nearly at least a daily occurrence in one area or another here - jumping dramatically as it gets colder) stemming from transient camp cooking/warming fires that we have.

So some of those areas are on the verge of getting more outside food traffic in them almost inadvertently 'searching' as it is.

Assuming he's still alive, it's much more likely that he's become part of, or at least crossed the path of, some of the various transient communities than him being alone in the canyon somewhere.

If he were living out of the canyon area somewhere, those likely possible areas are more limited, and again are going to be very well known to SDPD and many locals, nevermind transients in the area, as it'd be almost impossible for him to be somewhere he's not been interacting w/ others for some reason or another, this far out from when he was last heard from.

And they'd be much more likely to know if he had said anything about going somewhere else (in SD or elsewhere) if he had been living/staying in the area for any reason.

 

[TravelingBug]

I'd also suggest the family (over the PI) getting in contact w/ someone from the SDPD HOT team (homeless outreach team) as they are a tremendous resource and specialize in dealing w/ the homeless/transient community.

A little about the HOT team https://www.sandiego.gov/homeless-services/programs/hot

Public line for the SDPD HOT team: (858) 490-3850 or (866) 737-3468

And hopefully just as a bit of possible encouragement, I'm continually impressed w/ how well, on the whole, SDPD does in knowing so many of our citizens, across the socioeconomic spectrum.

It's amazing how often a call to an address has someone recalling a previous interaction or just having met the resident there for one reason or another (anything from, I believe there was a recent death in the family, to knowing they had someone with special needs of some sort or a physical need, to of course those who they might have chronic interactions with for some reason or another)

Many know the local transients who tend to live in or frequent their beats, personally, and at least portions of their stories, and know who the most well connected of the transients tend to be and/or who typically stays where and with whom, etc.

Because of increasing violence, it's far less common, even just over the last 6 months, for anyone on the streets to really stay 'alone.' And many of the few who used to are increasingly staying in groups or at least much nearer others, which also ups the odds that if Lance is out there in the area, someone's had contact with him and it's just a matter of finding that person / those people.

But in general LE awareness is enough that even w/in the transient population where people might move around every few months, someone will call in a welfare check on someone who they might think is acting unusually, and you'll hear an officer say, "Oh that's ____. I know him/her, and he/she just _____ (dances) to _____ (stay warm, stay upbeat). They're almost certainly Code 4, but I'll go out and check" or something along those lines. Or "I had contact w/ ____ yesterday because someone was concerned the child w/ her wasn't dressed warmly enough, etc. They're going to be ok and stay ____, but I'll go check in to be sure" type of thing. Sometimes you'll even hear someone who lives in the area only a few months a year suddenly appear back in town and officer know just from the call description who it likely is and some general details!

So it's unfortunate that's not the perception the family has gotten.

Also, if he did actually connect to dispatch on any of his 911 calls, if they had the time of that call from phone records, someone here w/ a subscription for Radio Reference, etc. may be able to pull the dispatch log from the scanner files (wouldn't be able to be posted/discussed up here but could be 'downstairs').

If it were a matter of someone disoriented or possibly confused as it sounds like may have been the case with Lance, and he were able to stay on the line long enough or gave an indication of that disorientation/confusion/need or something along those lines over the call, they'd almost certainly have tried to triangulate or ping his phone to get within a certain radius to so they could go try to check on him more specifically.

That happens dozens of times an hour most nights, actually (for various reasons)

It can't always be done, and unfortunately often they still can't find anyone because they stay on the move (though if it's something that they got enough to feel was pressing - as if it were hours ABLE as up and flying - they'd possibly even have had ABLE do a flyover to FLIR the area and search...though it depends on weather as well as the time of night...and we had had a lot of fog grounding or limiting ABLE back in late October / early November)

Obviously if he never connected or they were all hang-ups that's not the case, but if he actually was in communication, assuming he relayed some information so they knew there was actual help possibly needed, it's definitely possible that happened (which you'd hear being dispatched if it came in over 911)

However if he left the area and wasn't as close to the hospitals and/or didn't give his name, it'd take more listening in order to check back in a broader area that far back.

If it would have come in and/or been dispatched solely as medical, it'd be a little harder, and perhaps less of the above happening, but given it'd probably have been considered a 10-8 (person down) type of call, it'd probably have routed through PD and not just fire (which would probably prove helpful in some ways in this instance).

So it's worth trying to check phone records to see call length to determine the true possibility that he actually had voice contact w/ someone.

And just so people know, even a 911 hang-up call from a pay phone gets dispatched and the area checked if no one is found (sometimes dozens an hour) so even if he also tried from a pay phone whether he made voice contact that way or not it'd also have been dispatched and checked.

 

[TravelingBug]

Sorry for the 'novels' but I hope some of that might be at least slightly helpful.

 

[Lilibet]

Sorry for the 'novels' but I hope some of that might be at least slightly helpful.

Thank you so much TravelingBug! :loveyou: I wish we had a way to give your "novels" to Lance's family! Your detailed information is extremely helpful. I was quite touched by the individual interest shown by officers toward the homeless population on their beat.

Your description of ER makes me so grateful for our small town hospital! But I do love San Diego, have spent a lot of time there and have family there.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

Hi, me again. Last update from Lance's mom, is that she's very dissatisfied with both the private detective and the police. (She says the police refused to share any info with the PI). There's been NO searches of the area around the hospital. A friend on Facebook told me he was looking at the map of the area much like many of you here, and yes, there are many places a disoriented person could fall, get lost, etc. As to his leaving the hospital - yes it's all very fuzzy. His mother has called everyone, (hospital, hotel all his friends), several times and gotten conflicting stories from all. One staff person at the hospital said he just left, another told her he was officially released. They each gave different times. (That CYA mode someone mentioned comes to mind.)

I must admit, none of this sounds good.

I'm so sorry that you are having to go through this .

By the way, does anyone have access to Lance's mailbox? I thought maybe someone could check to see if the hospital has sent him a bill. Presumably, if yes, then Lance was at least seen in the ER; though that probably wouldn't answer the question as to whether he was officially released or simply left, it might give a clue as to what kind of care he received, what his state of mind might have been like, etc. If no, then it may be safe to assume that Lance got tired of waiting and left before seeking treatment.

Also, have the police shared any information with Lance's mom if they have been able to determine where his phone last pinged, etc. (I don't believe that this has been discussed yet ... if it has, my sincere apologies)?

 

[GigTu]

Poor Lance. I wonder where he could be. Are any searches of the canyon planned?

 

[Lilibet]

Please keep our WS verified attorney Gitana in your thoughts and prayers. Her sister-in-law is missing and presumed dead in the Oakland warehouse fire.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...irmed-dead-2-Dec-2016&p=12976824#post12976824

 

[Butterflyclip]

Is it possible for you to Direct message me? I don't want to bother you but I know Lance's mother is trying to make contact with people actually in San Diego who know the area.

 

[Lilibet]

Is it possible for you to Direct message me? I don't want to bother you but I know Lance's mother is trying to make contact with people actually in San Diego who know the area.

Are you talking to TravelingBug? You can send a private message by clicking on the user name on the post. A window will open for you to type your message. Hit send and you've sent a message.

 

[StarFishT]

I took a walk down Dickinson this afternoon. The end of the street curves around to the patient parking structure for the hospital. The canyon is quite steep and dense with brush. I took some pictures. It looks like there is some homeless activity because there was a shopping cart and some empty water jugs. I tried to see if anything obvious stood out. But then again, if there were obvious clues that he was in the canyon we wouldn't be still worried about finding him.

 

[Lilibet]

I took a walk down Dickinson this afternoon. The end of the street curves around to the patient parking structure for the hospital. The canyon is quite steep and dense with brush. I took some pictures. It looks like there is some homeless activity because there was a shopping cart and some empty water jugs. I tried to see if anything obvious stood out. But then again, if there were obvious clues that he was in the canyon we wouldn't be still worried about finding him.

Thank you for checking out that location, StarFish. It's how I imagined it from google earth. Do you think Lance could have just walked off the edge of Dickinson in the dark and fallen into the canyon? Or would he have to be on a trail. How is the lighting in that area? We know that he made several calls including a few 911, so I wonder if that could have been from the canyon.

 

[GigTu]

The steady wooshing sound that someone thought sounded like pocket dialing indicates he was walking. Do we know what time those calls were made? Maybe we can get a map going of how far he could have gone based on time he left hospital to time of last call.

 

[StarFishT]

There is a break in the curb where a trail could be but there is a quite narrow, dense brushed ledge that appears to drop steeply. I didn't walk through it but I have been in the same area and it is not well lit at night. If he exited the hospital and went the wrong direction to Dickinson he would have gone in the direction of the canyon, potentially trying to get to the patient parking structure, if he didn't park in the emergency department parking lot. Has there been any word of he drove himself, walked or took Uber/cab to the hospital? I would like to be able to help, if I can.

 

[Butterflyclip]

Article from "Missing Persons of America" page. Interview with Lance's mom, etc.
https://missingpersonsofamerica.com...ego-hospital-for-blackouts-then-goes-missing/

Lance Perkins, 43, from Orange County California went missing from UCSD Medical Center in the Hillcrest area of San Diego. He is believed to have walked out of the hospital. His mother, Donna said she spoke with Lance on Oct. 23. She told him at that time he was having “blackouts” and his mother told him to go to the hospital. Lance was taken to the hospital, but discharged himself around 10pm due to a heavy wait time. BUT, one staff person at the hospital said he just left, another told her he was officially released. They each gave different times. Lance walked north on Front Street and westbound on Dickerson (or Dove) according to security cameras. Lance called 911 several times after this.

Lance was staying at the Cosmopolitan Hotel in Old Town San Diego and he never caught a cab to return there or ever showed back up.

Donna told 10News that she also found out that her son had called two of his friends at 4 a.m., but he left no message, and it was just background noise. Phone records show that Lance made seven calls to 911.

“Two of them were between 14 and 17 minutes long,” she told 10News. “You could burn up or die before someone comes on the 911 system in San Diego.”

Lance Perkins is an art director and owner of Lance’s Roundtable.

 

[LisaWL7TR]

If he left the hospital due to whatever reason and later called 911 would he be taken to the same hospital?

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[Lilibet]

The steady wooshing sound that someone thought sounded like pocket dialing indicates he was walking. Do we know what time those calls were made? Maybe we can get a map going of how far he could have gone based on time he left hospital to time of last call.

BBM

The calls to his friends were made at 4:00 a.m. according to The Missing Persons of America post above. That's a good idea to make a map. So if he left the hospital around 10:00 pm, that's six hours. I'm a little doubtful he could have walked for six hours in his condition though. What do you think? Another thought that occurred to me is that his phone could have been stolen and the pocket calls were while someone else was walking.

There is a break in the curb where a trail could be but there is a quite narrow, dense brushed ledge that appears to drop steeply. I didn't walk through it but I have been in the same area and it is not well lit at night. If he exited the hospital and went the wrong direction to Dickinson he would have gone in the direction of the canyon, potentially trying to get to the patient parking structure, if he didn't park in the emergency department parking lot. Has there been any word of he drove himself, walked or took Uber/cab to the hospital? I would like to be able to help, if I can.

BBM

I believe he called 911 at his mother's suggestion and was taken to the hospital by ambulance. I don't have a link at the moment, but I believe that was posted earlier. He was on foot when he left the hospital and it doesn't seem as if he called a cab or a friend to pick him up.

 

[Lilibet]

If he left the hospital due to whatever reason and later called 911 would he be taken to the same hospital?

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I suppose that would depend on where he called from. There are other hospitals, but I doubt he got too far. We just don't know if the 911 calls were answered, or if he spoke to someone, or if anyone was dispatched to get him. I don't think his mother has been given that information. But I'm not sure.

 

[Lilibet]

Article from "Missing Persons of America" page. Interview with Lance's mom, etc.
https://missingpersonsofamerica.com...ego-hospital-for-blackouts-then-goes-missing/

Lance Perkins, 43, from Orange County California went missing from UCSD Medical Center in the Hillcrest area of San Diego. He is believed to have walked out of the hospital. His mother, Donna said she spoke with Lance on Oct. 23. She told him at that time he was having “blackouts” and his mother told him to go to the hospital. Lance was taken to the hospital, but discharged himself around 10pm due to a heavy wait time. BUT, one staff person at the hospital said he just left, another told her he was officially released. They each gave different times. Lance walked north on Front Street and westbound on Dickerson (or Dove) according to security cameras. Lance called 911 several times after this.

Lance was staying at the Cosmopolitan Hotel in Old Town San Diego and he never caught a cab to return there or ever showed back up.

Donna told 10News that she also found out that her son had called two of his friends at 4 a.m., but he left no message, and it was just background noise. Phone records show that Lance made seven calls to 911.

“Two of them were between 14 and 17 minutes long,” she told 10News. “You could burn up or die before someone comes on the 911 system in San Diego.”

Lance Perkins is an art director and owner of Lance’s Roundtable.

BBM

For some reason I can't read the article because the map on the website is superimposed over it. Is this pretty much the whole thing? Nothing new?

I really doubt it takes 14-17 minutes for a 911 operator to answer a call. I think it's important to remember that the timer starts on a phone when you first call 911 (or any number) and continues after the call is answered. It could very well be that the operator answered and Lance did not speak. The operator could have spent 14-17 minutes trying to get him to answer and/or attempting to pinpoint the location of the call (if that's possible).

 

[LisaWL7TR]

So there is no way possible that Lance is a John Doe in a hospital, or a care facility?

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