GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #1

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Here's one reason why I don't think the brother did it:

IF* the brother is guilty, he would've gotten blood all over his clothes. Now, we can assume that he wasn't wearing bloody clothes when LE arrived. Now, did the brother wash the clothes before calling 911? The timeline doesn't allow that. Did he just hide the clothes in his room? And wouldn't LE find the clothes? But when the parents arrive home, they are going to know that he is wearing different clothes from when they left, and they are going to start asking questions. Also, something like this doesn't happen in a vacuum. If your daughter is found stabbed, and your son has shown violent tendencies, you are going to start to suspect him. The fact that the parents still have the brother talking to LE, had a memorial service with the brother in attendance tells me they don't suspect their son at all. And I don't think parents could be that oblivious.

Another issue is I think a 12-year-old boy who kills his sister and tries to blame it on an intruder is going to stage the scene differently than how it would really look. For example, I could see a real intruder not caring about blood splatter and not bothering (or having time) to clean it up. But a 12-year-old boy might figure that he needs to wipe down every space of the crime scene because anything could lead back to him. So I don't know what the crime scene looked like...but I think there would be a difference depending on who did it, and LE would be able to tell.

OK-now that is what I was trying to say yesterday, but you said it much better.

I would also like to add the fact that they have recovered foreign DNA from the crime scene that they are trying to match to the other suspect/non-supect.
 
I wish the media would do some investigating of their own. What are the jobs of the parents? How many square feet is the house? Can they get a floor plan for it? What were the ages of the kids who were living in the house? Who was living out of state? How are they all related? Is Krystal Leila's biological mother? What was the family doing in the hours and days before the Little League game and Leila's murder? What room did this happen in? How many doors of entrance are there? Did any neighbors have any dogs outside? What time did the family leave for the game? Is this routine something that happens every Saturday? Were Leila or her brother outside at all before the murder?

What other teams and families are at those games ? Was Leila normally at the games ? Did another family , who sees them every weekend, have a gross family member who said ' where's leila' today and found out she was sick at home and knew home was just down the way?
 
Here's one reason why I don't think the brother did it:

IF* the brother is guilty, he would've gotten blood all over his clothes. Now, we can assume that he wasn't wearing bloody clothes when LE arrived. Now, did the brother wash the clothes before calling 911? The timeline doesn't allow that. Did he just hide the clothes in his room? And wouldn't LE find the clothes? But when the parents arrive home, they are going to know that he is wearing different clothes from when they left, and they are going to start asking questions. Also, something like this doesn't happen in a vacuum. If your daughter is found stabbed, and your son has shown violent tendencies, you are going to start to suspect him. The fact that the parents still have the brother talking to LE, had a memorial service with the brother in attendance tells me they don't suspect their son at all. And I don't think parents could be that oblivious.

Another issue is I think a 12-year-old boy who kills his sister and tries to blame it on an intruder is going to stage the scene differently than how it would really look. For example, I could see a real intruder not caring about blood splatter and not bothering (or having time) to clean it up. But a 12-year-old boy might figure that he needs to wipe down every space of the crime scene because anything could lead back to him. So I don't know what the crime scene looked like...but I think there would be a difference depending on who did it, and LE would be able to tell.

We haven't been told anything about any family members clothes other than the fathers by a neighbor and we haven't heard really any details about the crime scene...
 
The PD indicated that the witness recanting is beneficial because they can now "narrow" their scope. This indicates to me that they have a damn good idea who it was. I have also heard through locals that they are looking into previous PD visits to the house. This is no random stranger attack.
 
The PD indicated that the witness recanting is beneficial because they can now "narrow" their scope. This indicates to me that they have a damn good idea who it was. I have also heard through locals that they are looking into previous PD visits to the house. This is no random stranger attack.

If you find/ hear any more about this from the local news source, it would be great if you could share. Tks !
 
OK-now that is what I was trying to say yesterday, but you said it much better.

I would also like to add the fact that they have recovered foreign DNA from the crime scene that they are trying to match to the other suspect/non-supect.

Law enforcement has never stated that they recovered FOREIGN DNA. They just stated that it was DNA.
 
We haven't been told anything about any family members clothes other than the fathers by a neighbor and we haven't heard really any details about the crime scene...

My post was a hypothetical. If the brother did it, where are the bloody clothes? I doubt he had time to wash them. If he hid them, LE would have found them, and he would be arrested. The second paragraph I wrote was about how the crime scene would look different depending on whether it was an intruder or staged to look like an intruder.
 
I wish the media would do some investigating of their own. What are the jobs of the parents?

I don't. Aside from the fact that it's none of 'our' business and it's not their "JOB" (the media to conduct potential witch hunts), my experience is that accuracy would be poor.

How many square feet is the house? Can they get a floor plan for it? What were the ages of the kids who were living in the house? Who was living out of state? How are they all related? Is Krystal Leila's biological mother? What was the family doing in the hours and days before the Little League game and Leila's murder? What room did this happen in? How many doors of entrance are there? Did any neighbors have any dogs outside? What time did the family leave for the game? Is this routine something that happens every Saturday? Were Leila or her brother outside at all before the murder?

My suggestion would be that if you are interested in that information, you contact local law enforcement and inquire because it's a sure bet THEY know. And if they choose not to release that information to you (or the media) there might just be a reason.

I can't emphasize enough how you cannot rely on the accuracy of the media. You cannot fit 100's or 1000's of pages of documented/recorded evidence in to a 3 minute news segment. When you add their liberal use of adjectives, you may get an exaggerated sense of the 'tone' of police, family and/or neighbors.
 
Forgive me for asking what may all ready be in some report somewhere, as I've only started reading a few articles on these last couple pages (mostly mired in other threads on here!). My question involves these accounts:

"The crime was reported about 12:15 p.m. Saturday, when Leila’s parents phoned 911 dispatchers, according to the Sheriff’s Office.
The parents were at a baseball game when their 12-year-old son called to tell them an intruder was in their home, Sheriff’s Capt. Jim Macedo said.
The boy briefly pursued the intruder, who then fled the home, Macedo said.
When the boy went to check on Leila, who had been in a different room, he found she had been stabbed.
Dispatchers then called the boy at home, but details of the conversation are not being released.
Several sheriff’s deputies arrived at the home along with emergency responders. A California Highway Patrol helicopter flew from Sacramento to Valley Springs to search for the intruder.
Leila was taken to Mark Twain Medical Center in San Andreas, where she was pronounced dead at 1:01 p.m., according to Calaveras County Coroner Kevin Raggio."
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Kidnap-suspect-eyed-in-Fowler-case


Can someone please tell me approximately how far away from the Fowler home the ball field is? Where the rest of the family attended the Little League event? Tia

I am pretty sure that this is the Little League that serves Valley Springs: http://foothillslittleleague.com/

There are three fields for the games; They are 19 miles, 23 miles, and 17 miles from the Fowler home.


Christy Lawson lives three doors down from where Fowler was killed and said she witnessed a harrowing scene at about noon Saturday.

Lawson said a man who she believed to be Barney Fowler, Leila’s father, came to the edge of her driveway.

“He was white as a ghost,” she said. “He had blood on his shirt, her body imprint was on his shirt, like you could tell he was cradling that little girl.”

“He said, ‘Have you seen anything?’ I said, ‘No.’ I said, ‘Is she OK? Is she OK?’” Lawson recalled. “He said, ‘No. She’s not OK.’”

So, here are my questions, based only on my attempts at logic and sorting out the shoddy reporting from accurate reporting:

about 12 PM - son calls parents at ballgame to report an intruder (they have a cellphone)

12:15 PM - parents call 911, presumably while enroute to home

about 12:25-30 PM - parents arrive home
(ballfield = 17-23 miles away, even if driving 55-60 mph=20+ min. drive)

So...why would the neighbor report seeing a bloody-shirted father at her driveway asking "did you see anything?" at "about noon"? At noon he was reportedly at the ballgame, prior to 911 call recorded at 12:15. Upon their arrival back home at about 12:30, investigators and medical staff would all ready have been there doing their own investigation; even if that neighbor got her time wrong, I would expect the parents would quickly be headed to the hospital with their daughter rather than running around the neighborhood bloodied and looking for a suspect.

Just looking for some facts to latch onto, here.
 
I don't. Aside from the fact that it's none of 'our' business and it's not their "JOB" (the media to conduct potential witch hunts), my experience is that accuracy would be poor.



My suggestion would be that if you are interested in that information, you contact local law enforcement and inquire because it's a sure bet THEY know. And if they choose not to release that information to you (or the media) there might just be a reason.

I can't emphasize enough how you cannot rely on the accuracy of the media. You cannot fit 100's or 1000's of pages of documented/recorded evidence in to a 3 minute news segment. When you add their liberal use of adjectives, you may get an exaggerated sense of the 'tone' of police, family and/or neighbors.

I'm not sure how any of my questions resemble a witch hunt. I am trying to figure out what is so ~horrible about the questions I asked. A good media does investigative reporting. They don't just report on what LE says in press conferences. It is the job of the media to look into the stories they are covering closely.
 
My post was a hypothetical. If the brother did it, where are the bloody clothes? I doubt he had time to wash them. If he hid them, LE would have found them, and he would be arrested. The second paragraph I wrote was about how the crime scene would look different depending on whether it was an intruder or staged to look like an intruder.

Maybe the twelve year old was wearing bloody clothing when law enforcement first met him at the house. Maybe he was in close, physical contact with his sister, after he discovered her, just as his father was. We just don't know what was found initially by law enforcement when they arrived at the house. As gruesome as it is to think about, he could have even tried to revive his sister when he found her. We just don't know all of the evidence and information that has been gleaned by the authorities at this point.
 
So...why would the neighbor report seeing a bloody-shirted father at her driveway asking "did you see anything?" at "about noon"? At noon he was reportedly at the ballgame, prior to 911 call recorded at 12:15. Upon their arrival back home at about 12:30, investigators and medical staff would all ready have been there doing their own investigation; even if that neighbor got her time wrong, I would expect the parents would quickly be headed to the hospital with their daughter rather than running around the neighborhood bloodied and looking for a suspect.

Just looking for some facts to latch onto, here.

I don't think the times are THAT bad off or inconsistent. When under pressure to provide information about my daughter to police I was 3 inches off on her height and almost 20 pounds off her weight.

I also gave a 'peculiarly' accurate time when a certain event took place. Police focused on the unusually accurate time until I pointed out where the event took place: right under a doorway with a giant digital clock over it. Other times were somewhat off because they were 'guesstimates'. Who knows EXACTLY what time it is ALL the time?
 
I'm not sure how any of my questions resemble a witch hunt. I am trying to figure out what is so ~horrible about the questions I asked. A good media does investigative reporting. They don't just report on what LE says in press conferences.

I said "potential witch hunt". Two words: Richard Jewell

o Most of the questions you ask fall in the "none of your business" category.
(floorplan? Really? Where they work? Who lives where? This may be important to law enforcement investigating this case, but it's none of OUR business)

o Questions can "lead" people to believe a certain way -- sometimes more-so than facts.
(You think people wouldn't think 'Oh wow, look how many questions the press is asking about the family -- there must be something fishy with them')

It is the job of the media to look into the stories they are covering closely.

I somewhat disagree. Their job is to report the news, not make it. Asking the questions you ask would be akin to MAKING NEWS. You cannot hope to accurately represent those questions in the context of the actual crime being investigated. Certainly not in 2-3 minutes.

EDIT:

"A good media does investigative reporting." -- I wanted to comment on this, too. A good media doesn't do LAW ENFORCEMENT. Their "investigative reporting" should be limited to make sure LE is doing ITS job, not investigating crimes. Your questions amount to a crime investigation, and not just reporting on progress. Do you have reason to believe LE is either so incompetent or willfully impeding this investigation that it requires an agency (some branch of the commercial media) do conduct a parallel investigation?
 
Here's one reason why I don't think the brother did it:

IF* the brother is guilty, he would've gotten blood all over his clothes. Now, we can assume that he wasn't wearing bloody clothes when LE arrived. Now, did the brother wash the clothes before calling 911? The timeline doesn't allow that. Did he just hide the clothes in his room? And wouldn't LE find the clothes? But when the parents arrive home, they are going to know that he is wearing different clothes from when they left, and they are going to start asking questions. Also, something like this doesn't happen in a vacuum. If your daughter is found stabbed, and your son has shown violent tendencies, you are going to start to suspect him. The fact that the parents still have the brother talking to LE, had a memorial service with the brother in attendance tells me they don't suspect their son at all. And I don't think parents could be that oblivious.

Another issue is I think a 12-year-old boy who kills his sister and tries to blame it on an intruder is going to stage the scene differently than how it would really look. For example, I could see a real intruder not caring about blood splatter and not bothering (or having time) to clean it up. But a 12-year-old boy might figure that he needs to wipe down every space of the crime scene because anything could lead back to him. So I don't know what the crime scene looked like...but I think there would be a difference depending on who did it, and LE would be able to tell.

Your logic agrees with mine, eileenhawkeye; the brother didn't do this.
 
OT but what is wrong in the world today.

mere blocks from my home, last night at 11:30 pm a mother returned home to find her 14 year old daughter, stabbed in the chest and torso after having been sexually assaulted.

Blocks from my children. :(

Thankfully the victim is alive and stable in the hospital but WTH is happening. So much brazen brazen criminal activity against children lately.

OT, but this is horrifying, tlcya, and so sad! I hope they've caught the perp!
 
Not sure if this had been posted yet so please forgive me if it has...

I knew the witness was not credible but I didn't know she basically stated that she lied about seeing someone. (MOO)

BBM

"Sgt. Chris Hewitt said that while meeting with a sketch artist and detectives Wednesday, the unidentified witness refused to provide a description so a composite sketch could be made of the man."

Then...

"Although authorities still plan to do a DNA test on the 44-year-old kidnapping suspect, "detectives have determined it unlikely that there is a connection between the two crimes," Hewitt said."

So they haven't actually performed a DNA test???

ETA: This really makes me think they know who did it.

Yep, and I hope when they say this lying witness has actually helped the investigation, that means they are looking into why she lied to them. (Is this the same neighbor who said a bloody-shirted father was at her driveway at noon?)
 
I said "potential witch hunt". Two words: Richard Jewell

o Most of the questions you ask fall in the "none of your business" category.
(floorplan? Really? Where they work? Who lives where? This may be important to law enforcement investigating this case, but it's none of OUR business)

o Questions can "lead" people to believe a certain way -- sometimes more-so than facts.
(You think people wouldn't think 'Oh wow, look how many questions the press is asking about the family -- there must be something fishy with them')



I somewhat disagree. Their job is to report the news, not make it. Asking the questions you ask would be akin to MAKING NEWS. You cannot hope to accurately represent those questions in the context of the actual crime being investigated. Certainly not in 2-3 minutes.

Don't report on a case on the national news, and then tell the public it's none of their business when they take an interest in it. In many cases, the media will look into the case in their own way. I'm not understanding what is so bad about asking questions. It's none of our business what door Adam Lanza entered at Sandy Hook Elementary; It doesn't mean the media shouldn't try to find out that information. It's none of our business what the Boston bombers were doing before the Marathon attack...But there's nothing wrong with the media asking around.
The whole "none of your business" could apply to any detail in any case; It doesn't mean the media can't seek out that information.

I am still trying to understand why the media should only report exactly what LE tells them (What happens when LE stops with the daily press conferences? The case fades into obscurity?) and not to do any investigative reporting of their own. In most cases, once the police stop talking, you never hear about the case anymore because the media refuses to look into it.

I am not getting why they couldn't get accurate answers to my questions, and what 2-3 minutes has to do with it.
 
So they know who it is...but they gave a press conference talking about how two of their witnesses recanted right before they were going to have one of them make a sketch? Why would that need to be done if they know who it is? And why would they tell the media they are going to have daily press question and answer session if they know who it is? I have seen no indication that LE has zeroed in on one specific person.

Tactical maneuver, IMO. I think it's possible that LE sought to make a sketch just to pin a shaky witness.
 
I agree with Eileen, there is nothing wrong with asking questions. My goodness.
 
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