GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #1

[Linda7NJ]

OK-now that is what I was trying to say yesterday, but you said it much better.

I would also like to add the fact that they have recovered foreign DNA from the crime scene that they are trying to match to the other suspect/non-supect.

IMO they have no idea if its foreign until its tested and sourced.




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[tlcya]

Possible Sequence of events

12 yr old see intruder discovers sister stabbed. Calls Mom and Dad at the ballfield. Then hangs up and calls 911.

Mom and Dad after receiving call from 12 yr old hop in their vehicle and head for home, also dialing 911. if the ballfield is 17 miles or so away then that would be a matter of minutes when parents arrived home.

Mom and Dad arrive home, dad runs in and cradles daughter in arms. (I hate even contemplating that scene. Poor dad, his little princess)

Parents know that LE and Ambulance are already en route and should arrive any moment. (BTW if you read on Gold Country Topix, and under local news articles you may find some citizens of the area complaining that maybe finally ambulance service and call response times will finally be addressed)

Dad runs outside, perhaps to watch for ambulance and police cars. Sees neighbor, asks did you see anything????

LE claims the call(s) about this incident came in at approx 12:15 pm

So all LE can do is hypothesize how long after the stabbing did brother find her (presumably minutes) and then how long it took for the boy to speak with parents, call LE and that is where there "around noon" time period comes from. that plus the EMTs estimates into how old the injuries were based on Leila's condition probably was factored in to Le's initial time frame of "around noon".

Just what's rattling around in my brain.

Why would dad have taken her to the hospital? Ambulance and LEOs were already enroute. MOO

 

[Sunday]

I don't. Aside from the fact that it's none of 'our' business and it's not their "JOB" (the media to conduct potential witch hunts), my experience is that accuracy would be poor.



My suggestion would be that if you are interested in that information, you contact local law enforcement and inquire because it's a sure bet THEY know. And if they choose not to release that information to you (or the media) there might just be a reason.

I can't emphasize enough how you cannot rely on the accuracy of the media. You cannot fit 100's or 1000's of pages of documented/recorded evidence in to a 3 minute news segment. When you add their liberal use of adjectives, you may get an exaggerated sense of the 'tone' of police, family and/or neighbors.

You could not be more correct about how incorrect much media information is, especially when it's compiled from real time tweets and other outlets on the internet. However, there is no doubt in my mind that this wasn't a random attack by a stranger. I'm sure the PD will complete the forensic testing and reveal the perp soon.

The FBI is also assisting with another brutal stabbing of an elderly couple in Davis a few weeks ago. They are also very tight-lipped about this murder, although the language being conveyed by the PD is much different, as if they really don't have any suspects to narrow down upon in that case. Davis is also another CA city/town where this sort of thing simply doesn't happen, especially to children or 80-90yo's.

 

[TheDuchess]

Yep, and I hope when they say this lying witness has actually helped the investigation, that means they are looking into why she lied to them. (Is this the same neighbor who said a bloody-shirted father was at her driveway at noon?)

OK-can I just say that you BLEW MY MIND with this post??? :scared:

 

[Linda7NJ]

My post was a hypothetical. If the brother did it, where are the bloody clothes? I doubt he had time to wash them. If he hid them, LE would have found them, and he would be arrested. The second paragraph I wrote was about how the crime scene would look different depending on whether it was an intruder or staged to look like an intruder.

All the would be required would be a parent or child attempting to revive the girl by touching or shaking, attempting to pick up, move or hug her to explain away bloody clothes evidence.

Staging can be as simple as claiming to chase an imaginary perp or witness one fleeing.... And tossing or hiding the knife.


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[PoirotryInMotion]

Maybe the twelve year old was wearing bloody clothing when law enforcement first met him at the house. <snipped by me>...

Was anybody wearing bloody clothing when LE arrived at the house? Father's shirt was reported bloody by neighbor...did parents arrive back home from the ballfield before LE arrived at the house? (That would mean at least a 15 min. or so emergency response time for LE in this small town, since the 911 call happened at 12:15 PM.)

 

[TheDuchess]

Don't report on a case on the national news, and then tell the public it's none of their business when they take an interest in it. In many cases, the media will look into the case in their own way. I'm not understanding what is so bad about asking questions. It's none of our business what door Adam Lanza entered at Sandy Hook Elementary; It doesn't mean the media shouldn't try to find out that information. It's none of our business what the Boston bombers were doing before the Marathon attack...But there's nothing wrong with the media asking around.
The whole "none of your business" could apply to any detail in any case; It doesn't mean the media can't seek out that information.

I am still trying to understand why the media should only report exactly what LE tells them (What happens when LE stops with the daily press conferences? The case fades into obscurity?) and not to do any investigative reporting of their own. In most cases, once the police stop talking, you never hear about the case anymore because the media refuses to look into it.

I am not getting why they couldn't get accurate answers to my questions, and what 2-3 minutes has to do with it.

Stepping in respectfully....I think what they were trying to say was that this case is a bit different-we are talking at this point about a family who has been the victim of this horrible crime and children in the home. Whereas those other cases are about LE named suspects in the Sandy Hook and Boston cases.

While I defnitely think some of your questions are great and absolutley ok questions, I think when we start invading a private home with detailed questions about a private family life of people, we start infringing on people's privacy in the wake of a great personal tragedy for them.

And FWIW, I am curious about all of the questions you have asked as well, but think we all, including the media, should tread lightly around the family, who at this point are still victims and witnesses-not POIs or suspects. That's all.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Possible Sequence of events

12 yr old see intruder discovers sister stabbed. Calls Mom and Dad at the ballfield. Then hangs up and calls 911.

Mom and Dad after receiving call from 12 yr old hop in their vehicle and head for home, also dialing 911. if the ballfield is 17 miles or so away then that would be a matter of minutes when parents arrived home.

Mom and Dad arrive home, dad runs in and cradles daughter in arms. (I hate even contemplating that scene. Poor dad, his little princess)

Parents know that LE and Ambulance are already en route and should arrive any moment. (BTW if you read on Gold Country Topix, and under local news articles you may find some citizens of the area complaining that maybe finally ambulance service and call response times will finally be addressed)

Dad runs outside, perhaps to watch for ambulance and police cars. Sees neighbor, asks did you see anything????

LE claims the call(s) about this incident came in at approx 12:15 pm

So all LE can do is hypothesize how long after the stabbing did brother find her (presumably minutes) and then how long it took for the boy to speak with parents, call LE and that is where there "around noon" time period comes from. that plus the EMTs estimates into how old the injuries were based on Leila's condition probably was factored in to Le's initial time frame of "around noon".

Just what's rattling around in my brain.

Why would dad have taken her to the hospital? Ambulance and LEOs were already enroute. MOO

If the ballfield is at least 17 miles away, it would have been at least a 15-20 min. ride home--putting their arrival at 12:30 ish (if intruder was there at noon). That's conservative, and even that time frame suggests they're driving 60 mph in a residential area.

Yes, the 911 call from the parents I thought was on record to have been at 12:15 (read in thread this morning). And, no, dad wouldn't have taken her to the hospital; emergency vehicle would have. But if my daughter had been stabbed and so near death that she was pronounced dead within the hour, I'd have not been running around the nghbrhd asking nhbrs if they saw anything. I'd be in the emergency vehicle or following it to the hospital.

Just saying the story as I've read it seems off, somehow...

 

[Linda7NJ]

I want to hear the conversation that was initiated by police dispatch TO the home.

Assuming the above is true. That information alone is VERY troubling.



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[Jhon]

It's none of our business what the Boston bombers were doing before the Marathon attack...But there's nothing wrong with the media asking around.
The whole "none of your business" could apply to any detail in any case; It doesn't mean the media can't seek out that information.

I'm lost. Are you seriously equating the Boston bombing suspects (who were named by the FBI (and since the capture of Brother #2 are effectively 'the guys') with digging family and background info of a murdered 8 year old with nothing to suggest their involvement at all?

How about the "crowd sourced" boston bombing witch hunt which made life miserable for several people until the REAL guy's were IDd by LE, not 'the crowd' -- if we continue with your analogy. Is that the goal of an investigation? I don't think it is.

I'm sorry, but when something happened to my daughter, I would have fought tooth and nail any nosy questions from the public had they been directed at my family. It's none of your flipping business what the floor plan to *MY* house is. It's none of your flipping business where I work or where my relatives live/work. I made the police investigation in my daughters case easy -- opening our house and our life to them -- no holds barred, not you. Not local/national media. This poor girl's family has every right to tell you to go jump in a lake for wanting such details.

Isn't there a faq about "sleuthing" family? Don't you think your family centric questions come dangerously close to that?

I'm telling you -- if the media were to focus on those questions you want so desperately answered, the PUBLIC would start to think the family had something to do with it. Questions can LEAD opinions AWAY from the truth. Law enforcement has the time/resources to flush out ALL the angles -- the press has a 2-3 min window or a paragraph or three. That's why it's job is to REPORT NEWS. In REAL 'investigative journalism' (not the nightly news cast) it takes weeks/months before you hear a report -- or see a news segment. They don't typically air the story AS they are investigating it.

In closing, I once again remind you of Richard Jewell. I'll also ask you to remember another: Salah Barhoum.

 

[Jhon]

I agree with Eileen, there is nothing wrong with asking questions. My goodness.

Sorry -- but in situations like this, I disagree.

Picture your child is kidnapped. Press publicly investigate you. There is something wrong with that.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

OK-can I just say that you BLEW MY MIND with this post??? :scared:

Lol, well have to admit, when I read this neighbor's account, that part of her story blew my mind, too. Like I said, this makes me hope LE is looking into the 'recanting' neighbor more closely (especially if she is the same neighbor who reported seeing the father at her driveway), and why she would offer up so many detailed stories (if they are not true).

 

[TheDuchess]

I want to hear the conversation that was initiated by police dispatch TO the home.

Assuming the above is true. That information alone is VERY troubling.



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What call initiated by police?

 

[TheDuchess]

Sorry -- but in situations like this, I disagree.

Picture your child is kidnapped. Press publicly investigate you. There is something wrong with that.

Jhon-welcome to the forum. I am so sorry for whatever happened to your daughter and to your family. This story sounds like it hits very close to home for you. Hugs and prayers to you and your family.

:welcome4:

 

[SpriteGal]

This is a very puzzling case to me. First off it's brutal stabbing, and usually statistically it's a personal/passionate crime. I just cannot wrap my head around a possible motive for a complete stranger to break in and brutally stab an 8 year girl to death. Usually a stranger murder for a girl that age is covering up a sex assault, and as sick as that is it's actaully a motive. (not excusing it AT ALL) but I just can't figure this one out. IMO.

 

[TheDuchess]

Lol, well have to admit, when I read this neighbor's account, that part of her story blew my mind, too. Like I said, this makes me hope LE is looking into the 'recanting' neighbor more closely (especially if she is the same neighbor who reported seeing the father at her driveway), and why she would offer up so many detailed stories (if they are not true).

Now this neighbor is a perfect example of someone who definitely should and could be sleuthed. I mean, honestly...inserting yourself into an investigation and reporting something false to police and then recanting and clamming up-giving no indication of why you lied??? Having LE run in one direction and leave them scratching their heads? I DO want to know who this neighbor is!

(incidentally the captain seemed to think this "witness" was not worth any more of their time during the last presser, but you never know...)

 

[SpriteGal]

I don't think it's the brother either. He's 12. If he did it somebody would have to help him cover up. He's a child and wouldn't be a very smart criminal, and it would be very obvious from the get go IMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Sorry -- but in situations like this, I disagree.

Picture your child is kidnapped. Press publicly investigate you. There is something wrong with that.

If my child were kidnapped my life, my families life can be an open book. My goal is to find my child. I'm not giving a crap about anything else. I would BEG the media to be involved... I would want their help, and if its quid pro quo and they want access inside my home... They're welcome to it.


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[Linda7NJ]

What call initiated by police?

Parents called 911 after 12 year old called them. Then dispatch called the home. I want to hear that conversation.


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[tlcya]

I wish I knew the right words to bring us all together.

Discord sucks raw rotten eggs

Hoping for news very soon that this has been solved.