GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #3

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Please leave the diagnoses OUT of this discussion, unless LE or MSM give us reason to believe there is a connection of some sort.

Think about your post - would you post it/be allowed to post it, if it was based on race or religion? If not, then don't post it.

Salem
 
I really hope LE didn't know the brother was the murderer from the beginning. I would hope they wouldn't let him be around his other siblings for 2 weeks know what he just did to one of them. I don't think they would risk more children's lives just to get him to "keep talking".
 
I have not paid much attention to this case. Disturbing turn of events. Her own brother is the killer.
 
What a tragedy for the family. Prayers to all.

I have also felt from the beginning that there was some sort of involvement concerning the brother but it hurts to go there.....this is such a sad, sad story.....
 
I imagine they had their suspicions, I mean he was the only one at the home with the victim. LE had to exercise caution and follow up on those suspicions while also doing everything possible to reassure themselves and the public that there was not some random stranger maniac on the loose.

I think LE has done admirably in this case. They were tireless in their efforts to rule out the 12 year old while also tirelessly ruling out the random intruder angle. The resolution of this case is actually very very fast compared to some we've seen.

Kudos to the LE agencies involved for their quick resolution of this case, even though it is far from the answer any of us wanted I applaud their professionalism in arriving at it.
 
I hope Priscilla, Barney and Crystal all have loving support around them. So hard, having to explain to the other children. Just awful.
 
Here's the 800 pound elephant in the room that nobody, not even the news media, are asking about:

What EVIDENCE did the cops use to arrest the brother?? :ufo:

Bloody knife? Fingerprints on the knife? Bloody clothes? DNA on the knife or on Leila? Leila's DNA on the brother?

"Inquiring minds want to know."
:websleuther:
 
I respect your opinion. My mum was very ill at that age, I tried to kill anyone in my sight. I was very violent because my mum was not around and she was in hospital and I wanted her home, I just hated everyone, I wanted my Mum home! I didn't understand. Now at 27, I realized I acted so crazy and feel so awful for the family who was trying to take care of me when my Mum could not. I was very violent to my Aunty who was only trying to look after our family. I respectfully disagree that a 12 year old would understand their violence results in death. It's a violent psychosis.

I expect some 12-year-olds would understand and some wouldn't. Just as with adults, some young killers may be psychotic but not all of them. JMO.
 
Here's the 800 pound elephant in the room that nobody, not even the news media, are asking about:

What EVIDENCE did the cops use to arrest the brother?? :ufo:

Bloody knife? Fingerprints on the knife? Bloody clothes? DNA on the knife or on Leila? Leila's DNA on the brother?

"Inquiring minds want to know."
:websleuther:

I think finding brother's DNA on Leila or the other way around wouldn't be enough for an arrest since they lived in the same home and it would be easily explained away as normal contamination.

Inconsistencies in his story probably were a big part of it, besides any forensic findings, blood patterns...
 
I am going to be mortified if this monster gets out before he is 30. he knew exactly what he was doing.
 
If Leila was stabbed in her bedroom, wouldn't that mean there was some premeditation involved? I assume that the knives are not kept in Leila's room so either they had an argument, he left the room, and came back with a knife, or he got a knife, went to Leila's room and started stabbing her. If she was stabbed in her room, I don't see how it could've been done in the heat of the moment/rage because the brother had to actually go get the knife, and walk back to the room with it. That gives him time to think, and he was obviously thinking he was going to stab her when he got back to the room.
 
If Leila was stabbed in her bedroom, wouldn't that mean there was some premeditation involved? I assume that the knives are not kept in Leila's room so either they had an argument, he left the room, and came back with a knife, or he got a knife, went to Leila's room and started stabbing her. If she was stabbed in her room, I don't see how it could've been done in the heat of the moment/rage because the brother had to actually go get the knife, and walk back to the room with it. That gives him time to think, and he was obviously thinking he was going to stab her when he got back to the room.

Was she stabbed with a kitchen knife? He could be one of those kids who carries a pocket knife.
 
LE must have not only questioned him, but documented his physical condition at the time. I truly believe there was evidence of injury on him and blood evidence as well in the house. Who arrived first after the father called 911?

The link below has forensic case studies in addition to how assailants are wounded during a knife attack.

MECHANISMS FOR SELF-WOUNDING

During a violent attack with a knife or similar sharp instrument with its ensuing struggle, there may be numerous opportunities for the assailant also to sustain injuries.

By the very nature of such an assault, often with hand-to-hand combat and with multiple thrusts or slashes, it is quite difficult, or impossible, for the knife wielder to control each action. The following seven scenarios are proposed as possible causative factors in self-wounding.

Mechanism 1: While stabbing the victim, the assailant hits bone or otherwise resistant material. The abrupt stopping of the knife causes the assailant's hand to slide forward, allowing the hand gripping the knife to slide across the blade. Such a scenario typically would cause a slicing of the palmar surfaces of the hand or fingers. If the attack continues after the hand is cut, the presence of the assailant's blood on the knife handle reduces the gripping ability further, making even multiple self-wounding likely.

Mechanism 2: If the assailant wields the knife in one hand and tries to restrain the struggling victim with the other, it is possible that the assailant's hand on the victim will suffer a stab wound during the multiple thrusts. Such a stab wound would commonly be seen on the back of the hand or fingers or on the arm of the free hand.

Mechanism 3: If a folding knife without a locking blade, such as a jackknife, strikes a resistant surface, the knife blade can fold across the assailant's hand. Such an event would typically cause a guillotine-like knife-edge wound, either across the outer surfaces of the fingers or across the wrist or the heel of the palm, depending upon the knife's orientation in the assailant's hand.

Mechanism 4: Due to the great momentum involved in a typical stab, the knife may be capable of becoming lodged in bone or connective tissue. If the assailant attempts to remove the knife during the continuing struggle with the victim, it is possible that the hands could grasp a partially- exposed knife blade, causing slicing wounds to the palmar surfaces.

Mechanism 5: In a slashing action with a knife or other sharp-edged weapon, a glancing blow against the victim or a complete miss may, by the weapon's momentum, cause a slash injury to the assailant. Be cause of the virtually limitless degrees of freedom in how this slashing motion may be delivered toward the victim, the resulting injury to the assailant could occur to almost any part of the assailant's anatomy.

Mechanism 6: Similarly, defensive actions by the victim may cause a redirecting of the weapon's arc into the assailant. Again, the variety of possible movements makes for a limitless list of injuries possible.

Mechanism 7: In a struggle for control of the weapon, the assailant may grab for the weapon. This could result in slicing wounds to the palmar surfaces of the hand or fingers of the assailant.

If he had physical injuries on him they would have been most likely on his hands and arms, yet we have seen no wounds/scratches nor bandages in photos and videos from the vigil. (Did anyone spot any?)

Also, the parents would have known immediately, and they didn't seem to suspect anything.

Third, had he displayed such wounds LE had most likely taken him into custody immediately and not waited - what is it? 2 weeks? - putting other family members and the public at risk.

No I don't think he had any physical wounds at all. Which is, given the likelihood that you would somehow hurt yourself too when you stab someone 21 times, quite astonishing.

Not only was this a sophisticated and efficient attack but he also cleaned up completely after himself, fooling everyone. The only thing that was messy was his story.

It is very rare that a person so young becomes a first time offender in such a heineous crime and executes it so "well", usually there is a long build up of lesser crimes before it becomes murder. (sorry, don't mean to sound cold, just trying to look at the facts, as we know them)

I'm just baffled by the whole story. It almost sounds "too bad to be true".
 
I just wrote a long post to have it timeout on me - here's it in a nutshell:

All my opinion only, ok:

The brother could have had some abuse or bullying issues with the sister and the family maybe knew but didn't think it was that serious. I do NOT think this murder was over a video game or what to watch on TV. There seems to be some confusing family issues going on and who knows what was happening before this murder, I am not and will not judge because I live in my own glass house. I think this anger was building up, he had thought about it and did what he felt was justified in his own mind had to be done - and he confessed, I believe that.

His story did not add up - they maybe took the TV to check a possible alibi that he was watching TV at the time, only to find out the TV wasn't turned on then, for example. I believe that can be checked depending on the TV.

There could have been evidence such as blood in the washing machine, wasching machine had been used while parents were gone, clothes were burned possibly, evidence that he left the house before coming back home (to get rid of evidence) blood in her room with his prints, no tracks in garage or concrete outside (and their place looks outside to be dirty/muddy), no scent picked up outside the house. I mean there are a hundred and one clues that don't make sense that the police might have.

The police did what they could to eliminate him as a suspect, knowing full well this wasn't going to end that way. Calling in dogs, diving in ponds, the PCs etc. They knew this brother was a danger to the one person he murdered so as long as he stayed put, no one else was in danger. I wonder if the parents were updated on what they were concluding or if hit them all at once. When watching the YouTube video that someone a few pages back posted the link to, it seems the father was more upset than just the tragic death of his daughter - IMO - he had some things in his mind as he stumbled with what he told the reporter.
 
If Leila was stabbed in her bedroom, wouldn't that mean there was some premeditation involved? I assume that the knives are not kept in Leila's room so either they had an argument, he left the room, and came back with a knife, or he got a knife, went to Leila's room and started stabbing her. If she was stabbed in her room, I don't see how it could've been done in the heat of the moment/rage because the brother had to actually go get the knife, and walk back to the room with it. That gives him time to think, and he was obviously thinking he was going to stab her when he got back to the room.

Or SHE kept a knife in her room.
 
Also, the parents would have known immediately, and they didn't seem to suspect anything.


Just from all the photographs, it's clear to an outsider there was "them" and then there was "him". I doubt the parents even noticed, or if they did they were deeply in denial.
 
I wish I was not so cynical at times, but I never believed the intruder story. It made no sense. (snipped by me)

I felt compelled to come to this thread today after the news of the brother's arrest. From day one, I suspected him, because unfortunately in most cases the last person reported to see the victim is guilty. Their alibi often is SODDI and eventually LE disproves that.

This is such a tragedy for the family. My prayers are with them.
 
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