GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #3

[CountryGirl]

In an article updated yesterday:

Investigators said earlier this week they believed they were getting closer to cracking the case.

Hewitt said DNA testing had yielded "a positive result," although the agency has not yet disclosed details of the results.

Extensive crime scene evidence from the Fowler home has been collected, including fingerprints and DNA.

~~

DNA from the brother, since he lived in the same house would not be evidence, so they must have incriminating DNA that led them to believe it showed him to be the perpetrator; otherwise I would think it would rule him out.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

He called his parents, then 911, officials said.

I would love to hear his call to 911.

 

[blue22]

If he had physical injuries on him they would have been most likely on his hands and arms, yet we have seen no wounds/scratches nor bandages in photos and videos from the vigil. (Did anyone spot any?)

Also, the parents would have known immediately, and they didn't seem to suspect anything.

Third, had he displayed such wounds LE had most likely taken him into custody immediately and not waited - what is it? 2 weeks? - putting other family members and the public at risk.

No I don't think he had any physical wounds at all. Which is, given the likelihood that you would somehow hurt yourself too when you stab someone 21 times, quite astonishing.

Not only was this a sophisticated and efficient attack but he also cleaned up completely after himself, fooling everyone. The only thing that was messy was his story.

It is very rare that a person so young becomes a first time offender in such a heineous crime and executes it so "well", usually there is a long build up of lesser crimes before it becomes murder. (sorry, don't mean to sound cold, just trying to look at the facts, as we know them)

I'm just baffled by the whole story. It almost sounds "too bad to be true".

I don't think it was sophisticated and efficient, at all. He stabbed her over and over and she still had life. I have a suspicion (just my opinion) that the time frame is different then we the public believe. He gave himself time to clean him, I'm sure. That doesn't mean he did it well. He could jump in the shower and be clean in a matter of minutes. The fact that they retrieved so much DNA and fingerprints, leads me to think he did a very poor job cleaning.

I don't think he necessarily had to have any injuries. There are several scenarios that come into my mind. The biggest, is she was asleep when he attacked her. There would be no defensive wounds, if she was incapacitated during a sleep. The fact that he stabbed her so many times and she still was alive, makes me believe he is very inexperienced and manic. What if most of the "stabs" were not very deep, or he was actually cutting...rather then deeply stabbing? He could have been stabbing and dropping the knife each time, or stabbing getting up in panic, and continuing, etc. I don't think he would have to have injuries, at all. Ugh...I don't even like thinking about this. I really have to stop there.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

bbm

That's what I was saying earlier. I work with 12-yr-olds, and if he's 12, he's much more developed and much taller than others his age. He's taller than the older sister and almost as tall as the older brother. I'd say he looks about 14, but perhaps he went through an early growth spurt.

I would've thought the younger one with the longish hair looked 12.

If that really is him, then I guess he's just tall.

I used to work with this age group as well, and have a nephew who just turned 15. I'd have guessed the "expressionless" brother to be 14 or so. The brother with the longish hair (crying at the vigil) to me looked to be in the 10-12 range. That sepia-toned "family" photo also appeared as though the kids had been seated one behind the next, in chronological order. But, I guess not?

 

[katydid23]

Was she stabbed with a kitchen knife? He could be one of those kids who carries a pocket knife.

I think it was a kitchen knife. I never saw any references to pocket knives, but they did tAke some kitchen knives from the kitchen and test them, that had been cleaned and replaced. And I think one of them had blood on it.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I used to work with this age group as well, and have a nephew who just turned 15. I'd have guessed the "expressionless" brother to be 14 or so. The brother with the longish hair (crying at the vigil) to me looked to be in the 10-12 range. That sepia-toned "family" photo also appeared as though the kids had been seated one behind the next, in chronological order. But, I guess not?

I don't think they are sitting in order. I think I. Fowler and the girl are switched. In the obituary, J. Fowler is listed first (We know he is 17 and we know what he looks like) and then the other girl A. Fowler, then I. Fowler. I would think the obituary is in order by age, and I. Fowler is the second oldest boy...and the kid with the Bob Marley shirt looks older than the kid with the long hair.

 

[Kaliste]

Do you think the parents/siblings had any inkling that the 12 yr old did this? I feel LE knew who committed this crime early on and just to prove it. The thought of him being in that house with other children for weeks is terrifying.

 

[katydid23]

I would love to hear his call to 911.

I didn't think he called 911. Did he?

 

[orangesandapples]

I don't know about you guys, but I hope they try him as an adult .. There's a very scary vibe I get here and the fact that he killed so viciously so young gives me very little hope that he could be rehabilitated in any meaningful way. I know some kids commit vicious acts and are reformed with maturity, but there are others that act out young and it's only a sign of worse to come. That may well be the case here. I'm sorry if that sounds pessimistic .. It's just my impression in this case.

I couldn't disagree more. I find the idea of trying a 12 year old as an adult horrifying and borderline barbaric. I understand there's a level of confusion and shock here, but laws protecting juveniles exist for a reason- they simply do not function the same way you or I do, no matter what anyone believes they 'see in their eyes'. The US is one of the only nations in the world willing to impose incredibly harsh punishments on juveniles.

Here are some statistics for juveniles held in adult facilities:
5 times more likely to be sexually assaulted than youth held in juvenile detention centers
2 times more likely to be beaten by staff than youth held in juvenile detention centers
4.6 times more likely to commit suicide than the general adolescent population
7.7 times more likely to commit suicide than adolescents in juvenile detention centers

I can't imagine wishing that on anyone. JMHO.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I didn't think he called 911. Did he?

The LA Times said he did...

He called his parents, then 911, officials said.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...rs-12yearold-brother-20130512,0,1295706.story

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I couldn't disagree more. I find the idea of trying a 12 year old as an adult horrifying and borderline barbaric. I understand there's a level of confusion and shock here, but laws protecting juveniles exist for a reason- they simply do not function the same way you or I do, no matter what anyone believes they 'see in their eyes'. The US is one of the only nations in the world willing to impose incredibly harsh punishments on juveniles.

Here are some statistics for juveniles held in adult facilities:
5 times more likely to be sexually assaulted than youth held in juvenile detention centers
2 times more likely to be beaten by staff than youth held in juvenile detention centers
4.6 times more likely to commit suicide than the general adolescent population
7.7 times more likely to commit suicide than adolescents in juvenile detention centers

I can't imagine wishing that on anyone. JMHO.

Okay, he can move to an adult facility when he turns 18....

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I would love to hear his call to 911.

I don't think he called 911 - he called the parents, who seemed to be on their way home. There's a timeline somewhere, not sure how far back though.

 

[blue22]

I couldn't disagree more. I find the idea of trying a 12 year old as an adult horrifying and borderline barbaric. I understand there's a level of confusion and shock here, but laws protecting juveniles exist for a reason- they simply do not function the same way you or I do, no matter what anyone believes they 'see in their eyes'. The US is one of the only nations in the world willing to impose incredibly harsh punishments on juveniles.

Here are some statistics for juveniles held in adult facilities:
5 times more likely to be sexually assaulted than youth held in juvenile detention centers
2 times more likely to be beaten by staff than youth held in juvenile detention centers
4.6 times more likely to commit suicide than the general adolescent population
7.7 times more likely to commit suicide than adolescents in juvenile detention centers

I can't imagine wishing that on anyone. JMHO.

As horrifying and barbaric, as stabbing an 8 year old sister 21 times, for lord knows what reason? Actions have consequences. If those consequences are something you listed above, then he chose that path. I don't wish what HE did on anyone. His brain may function different then an adult brain, but 12 year olds know not to slaughter their sisters. Just my opinion, and I do totally respect where you are coming from.

The fact is, he WOULD be protected as a juvenile, while he is legally a juvenile. He would either be completely separated until adulthood, or in a specialized juvenile facility.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Do you think the parents/siblings had any inkling that the 12 yr old did this? I feel LE knew who committed this crime early on and just to prove it. The thought of him being in that house with other children for weeks is terrifying.

Parents never want to believe their child could do such a thing but I'm sure they had to be prepared to face that reality. Who knows what was going on in that family before this happened, if he had previous issues or not, or what led the custody issue to be what it was.

I don't want to believe my sweet innocent daughter is the one giving haircuts to all the kids in her kindergarten but I've had to face the evidence, time and time again.

Sorry, I had to lighten this thread a little bit, this is all so tragic and sad. I'm sure this family has had more than it's share of heartbreak before this happened.

 

[cluciano63]

I think the parents knew or suspected from the start. Right away, they did not want to appear on camera or have photos released. JMO

 

[Starry Night]

I don't even like to think about how it all happened. I am disturbed that it did happen. I also am disturbed that he was back in school and free and about. I wonder at what point LE suspected him.......not an easy call for them. Very glad there was a lot of LE presence-but what about nights alone for the family in that house-

 

[CountryGirl]

Persons under 14 cannot be tried as an adult in California and if found guilty of murder, he can only be held until he is 25. If there are loopholes, I haven't found them.

 

[AstroKitty]

In an article updated yesterday:

Investigators said earlier this week they believed they were getting closer to cracking the case.

Hewitt said DNA testing had yielded "a positive result," although the agency has not yet disclosed details of the results.

Extensive crime scene evidence from the Fowler home has been collected, including fingerprints and DNA.

~~

DNA from the brother, since he lived in the same house would not be evidence, so they must have incriminating DNA that led them to believe it showed him to be the perpetrator; otherwise I would think it would rule him out.

She was stabbed - so I assume it was his blood mixed with her blood. The only way that would happen is if they were both injured and bleeding at the same time. Since he didn't claim to be hurt by the intruder - he could have only been injured by his hand slipping down the handle of the knife during the attack. JMO

 

[michmi]

I couldn't disagree more. I find the idea of trying a 12 year old as an adult horrifying and borderline barbaric. I understand there's a level of confusion and shock here, but laws protecting juveniles exist for a reason- they simply do not function the same way you or I do, no matter what anyone believes they 'see in their eyes'. The US is one of the only nations in the world willing to impose incredibly harsh punishments on juveniles.

Here are some statistics for juveniles held in adult facilities:
5 times more likely to be sexually assaulted than youth held in juvenile detention centers
2 times more likely to be beaten by staff than youth held in juvenile detention centers
4.6 times more likely to commit suicide than the general adolescent population
7.7 times more likely to commit suicide than adolescents in juvenile detention centers

I can't imagine wishing that on anyone. JMHO.

Here's a statistic - Leila was 100% likely to be stabbed to death by her 12-year-old brother.

Try him as an adult. Too bad what happens in prison.

 

[Knox]

Okay, he can move to an adult facility when he turns 18....

The Division of Juvenile Justice provides education and treatment to California’s youthful offenders up to the age of 25 who have the most serious criminal backgrounds and most intense treatment needs. Most juvenile offenders today are committed to county facilities in their home community where they can be closer to their families and local social services that are vital to rehabilitation.

http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Juvenile_Justice/

We have a DJJ Facility in our city. I'm sure there are some offenders who at 18-25 may be put into the CDC&R system. But it is my impression the bulk of the offenders are kept in DJJ until age 25.

I'm amazed by the number of people in the news comment section who say this boy should be tried as an adult. I have no idea if he can be rehabilitated, but DJJ will have 13 years to try.

What IF did is the epitome of evil, I would really like to understand his background and the lead up to the murder. But because he is a JV, I think we will not learn much.