GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #3

[eileenhawkeye]

<modsnip>
Innocence until proven guilty only applies to the law and the courtroom. The general public can say whatever they want.

Seriously? That's a reason why he might be innocent? Because he didn't give her 24 stab wounds instead of 21?

Why would he frame himself?

 

[starry77]

<modsnip>

Hm. Okay then.

Anyway, I don't believe he eluded LE for 2 weeks. I think that because he lived in the same home, DNA evidence would prove tricky and so they took their time to make sure they could convict. I also don't necessarily think he cared whether or not his sister was still alive- she would clearly not be able to live for long with that amount of blood loss. It is also possible she was unconscious and he assumed she had died.

 

[scorekeeper]

Law Enforcement arrested him for the murder of poor little Leila not Websleuths.

 

[Linda7NJ]

<modsnip>

Do you think the guy that kidnapped those three girls had his bail set at 8 MILLION dollars because he's presumed innocent?


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[winterrose]

I think people are going by what the Sheriff's office said...

&#8220;Today Calaveras County Sheriff&#8217;s Office detectives arrested the murderer of eight year old Leila Fowler. At 5:10 p.m. detectives arrested Leila&#8217;s 12 year old brother at the Sheriff&#8217;s Office&#8217;s Valley Springs Substation on the charge of homicide.

 

[jane_tennison]

LE didn't mention the origin/nature of the dna evidence. Blood? Skin? Hair follicle?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think people are going by what the Sheriff's office said...

&#8220;Today Calaveras County Sheriff&#8217;s Office detectives arrested the murderer of eight year old Leila Fowler. At 5:10 p.m. detectives arrested Leila&#8217;s 12 year old brother at the Sheriff&#8217;s Office&#8217;s Valley Springs Substation on the charge of homicide.

However, another commented things are unfolding, so I've felt there might be more coming out in the case soon. I also know in every case people can start creating that shadow of a doubt to the public and for jurors later. I'll hold to what the Sheriff's office says in the coming days, I'm sure alot is unfolding we've yet to hear.

Before its over the kid will have his supporters, those that will believe a parent killed her, left and set up the boy,,,an uncle, some estranged relative...it's gonna get crazy!

I'm not a psychic, just have followed way too many of these cases closely.


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[mysteriew]

<modsnip>

I agree with the principle that in court a suspect should be presumed innocent until proven guilty and judged by his peers. However our constitution also allows for us to have our own opinions and allows us to discuss those opinions. The presumption of innocence applies to the court and the jury. Individuals can form their own opinions.

At this point we don't know the evidence LE has in this case. But independently, without the ability to discuss it..... we had all accepted the likelihood that the boy might have been the one to kill his sister. Each of had our own reasons for our beliefs, each of us hoped it wasn't so. But when the time came that we could discuss it, we found that most of us....... including the ones who were arguing against discussing it, were afraid it was the child.

 

[danzn16]

Mods said not to diagnose. So I won't say that I think he has a CD. But IF he was diagnosed with one, I would be verysurprised that there were no prior incidents. I have taught several children with CDs, all of whom ended up in residential treatment centers before their eighth birthdays. CDs seem to make themselves known in multiple ways.

I think these things will begin coming out shortly.

Oops sorry. I haven't been able to follow every post so I didn't know that was said :/


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[danzn16]

BBM Speculative ? How can we ' know' this ?

It was supposed to say "that we know of". It was autocorrect. I didn't say we did know. I said he hasn't had abuse that we know of. But that would obviously not be the case with more info. Sorry I should have explained more/been more thorough.


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[katydid23]

1. Crystal's post on FB (which was picked up by CNN) showed no indication at all that that she (they?) doubt his guilt...but "family" could be many different people.

2. That seems to me that he does have a disciplinary history. However, when I was in middle school, my school gave out detentions extremely easy so without knowing exactly what he did, I don't see this as a huge concern.

As to #2, if he is still attending that middle school, then he probably does not have any extreme behavioral problems. I worked at a middle school, and if you had any violent incidents, you were usually transferred to another school after the 1st or 2nd outburst. Then expelled from the district after a 3rd. So he may have had detentions for tardiness or truancy, but if he had drug violations or violent outbursts, he would probably have been kicked out of the school. JMO

 

[Davereid]

Actually in many other countries the burden of proof is on the defendant or "guilty until proven innocent". That being said another great right of being an American is freedom of speech. We are not a sequestered jury, just people discussing a crime and positing theories as to the what, how and why.

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[Starry Night]

I don't love the post, in fact I am feeling a little heated by this. If this was your child killed, you would NEVER, EVER condone "hormones" as a factor.

I've taught dozens of angry, abused, neglected, hormonal boys. To even imply that a child in those circumstances killing someone could be explained away so easily as divorce and favoring another child is an extreme disservice to that population, IMO.

What does having 5 brothers have to do with this?

On a side note, though I disagree with your opinion here, I do like your username- the derivation of mine is Starry Night.

Hi Starry-not condoning hormones as a factor, being it implied in my post. Now that you mention it however, that is a good idea. Maybe something to be studied.

Having 5 brothers is first-hand knowledge of how the mother-son relationship works and what I have seen. Observation-that is all.

Oh-just so you know-I am not implying that a whole population of 'angry, abused, neglected, hormonal boys' are killing people.

I really don't know how or why I made you so angry lol.

 

[katydid23]

I think people are going by what the Sheriff's office said...

“Today Calaveras County Sheriff’s Office detectives arrested the murderer of eight year old Leila Fowler. At 5:10 p.m. detectives arrested Leila’s 12 year old brother at the Sheriff’s Office’s Valley Springs Substation on the charge of homicide.

However, another commented things are unfolding, so I've felt there might be more coming out in the case soon. I also know in every case people can start creating that shadow of a doubt to the public and for jurors later. I'll hold to what the Sheriff's office says in the coming days, I'm sure alot is unfolding we've yet to hear.

Interesting that he was arrested AT the substation. I wonder if he said something at the station that gave them what they needed to make the arrest?

 

[starry77]

As to #2, if he is still attending that middle school, then he probably does not have any extreme behavioral problems. I worked at a middle school, and if you had any violent incidents, you were usually transferred to another school after the 2nd outburst. Then expelled from the district after a 3rd. So he may have had detentions for tardiness for truancy, but if he had drug violations or violent outbursts, he would probably have been kicked out of the school. JMO

I wonder what the school is like? In my school (poor, violent, inner-city area), you can assault teachers and still remain in the school. So though I think that's not necessarily true, it is probably true for the majority of schools. He also might have been clever and cognizant enough to limit the violence in school but be an aggressor in more subtle ways.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I don't think they knew right away. There was a massive (costly) search, the schools locked down, the community in fear. But I do think they began to have strong suspicions early on. About the time they went back to the home and got the knives.

And yeah they still checked sex offenders, they did DNA on the other suspect and looked at the couple murder (or at least used the inquiry call from the other PD) but that IMO was to "rule them out." It also helps when the defense attorney tries to say that LE didn't look for anyone else other than their client or tries to use the others for reasonable doubt.

I agree with this, mysteriew. I think if they knew right away it was the boy, they would not have asked for the public's help in reporting someone who might have "a recent injury." But I felt as early as the end of last week that they'd all ready zeroed in on someone in the home, and were just awaiting the DNA test results that would tie the case up for them, at least enough to arrest a suspect. It was why there was no more need for press conferences, or pleas to the public concerning more tips. It was also pretty evident in the various answers given (though not always consistently) to the press ('we think he's in the area--yet we feel the people in this town are safe due to increased police presence'). It also seemed likely (to me) that one of the key players was also a key suspect, in that they were careful not to release any of the 911 tapes. Just my impressions...though I confess I'd ruled the boy out--I'm still unable to grasp how a 12 year old could keep people (including FBI) guessing for 2 weeks, especially concerning evidence/weapon disposal.

Considering the extraordinary pressure LE was under in this case, though, I think they did a careful, thorough job in tracking down the clues and evidence--and that includes the coordination of local sheriff's office with the FBI. I'm crushed for the many family members this is affecting, but I'm also relieved that this little town can now start to heal.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I follow all cases with an open mind. But we discuss the case as it unfolds and yes that would involve discussing this minor. Just because we are discussing doesn't mean anyone would absolutely think he is guilty if the evidence said other wise. Discussing a case doesn't mean a presumption of guilt. This is WS, it's what is done here.


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In all honesty, I thought he was guilty from the start. That's why I started following this case on day one. I knew as soon as he claimed, he chased an intruder. For some reason ...child killers seem to claim some sort of heroics. That plus he didn't call 911...

It was all downhill for him from there.


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[vasportsmom]

In all honesty, I thought he was guilty from the start. That's why I started following this case on day one. I knew as soon as he claimed, he chased an intruder. For some reason ...child killers seem to claim some sort of heroics. That plus he didn't call 911...

It was all downhill for him from there.


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I thought he was guilty too but my reaction was the opposite. I avoided this thread like the plague because I didn't want to see others giving my fears a voice. These cases with young male killers are heart wrenching. I have 12 & 17 year old boys and I just can't wrap my head around what goes so wrong that their peers become killers.

 

[winterrose]

Interesting that he was arrested AT the substation. I wonder if he said something at the station that gave them what they needed to make the arrest?

LE said they found evidence to arrest him. I'm wondering if they meant they went to pick him up and arrested him at the station once he got there. One of the problems with a minor's arrest and later with the trial, there's so much we won't hear in detail. I saw a local news video online last night and I'm trying to find it.

 

[Claudette]

I think we'll find out he was a somewhat troubled, violent youth but nothing obviously out of the ordinary. There may be a few things that he has done that raised people's eyebrows.

I don't recall the exact SK but there was one that was considered "a little off" all his life up to the conviction. His sister or aunt once said that when he was very young, like around 5, they woke up and he was standing over them with a knife. They tried to ignore it like it was no big deal but obviously never forgot it.