GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #3

[itsreenw]

Is anyone else thinking that bio mom's story of not allowed to attend funeral may be a lie? I'm not calling her a liar but perhaps LE had already told all THREE parents who they were suspecting. I mean they must have and just didn't have quite enough evidence to seal the deal and so bio mom did not go for that reason.......to not be around him in case of an outburst. They all decided it best if she not go and made up the ' not allowed' story so no one would ask questions? That gives LE a bit more time without a public brawl of some kind. Just thinking out loud.

Heartbreak for baby Leila...a little precious angel .

I don't think it was a lie. I think it may have been the way she interpreted something Barney or Crystal may have said to her or maybe they were planning the funeral without her input and she took it that she was not welcome.

When my bf's mother passed, his ex didn't come to the funeral. The kids were with us that week and when we all arrived, they were looking around for their mom. They called her later that day and she told the kids she didn't come because nobody invited her. So they were mad at their dad and me for not "letting" their mom come to their Grandma's funeral.

I explained to them what an obituary is and that it's posted in the newspaper with the date and time so everybody that wants to come, can come.
Not the same as one of the children passing away, but just trying to explain what I mean by something being misinterpreted.

I'm not sure what happened with the Fowlers but I'm hoping it was a misunderstanding and that they really didn't tell Priscilla she couldn't be there.

 

[MissJ]

I have a nephew who is 10-11 years old who has been violent with his sisters from the age of 4-5. He is small for his age but very intelligent. He was once caught trying to burn the baby with a hot light bulb. He has been in treatment for years and gives evidence (says he hears voices) of being psychotic. So far there has been some improvement and he is able to function in society. Naturally he is carefully monitored. JMO but if this young man had displayed aggression early on could treatment have prevented this? He does have and odd affect like my nephew. JMO

 

[Elainera]

http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news.../20115758/-/xxmt1m/-/index.html?absolute=true

This video was posted above.

What stood out to me was that he stopped going to school (after the murder) when classmates started asking him questions. I wonder what they asked him. Just before watching the video I had asked myself if this was another case where everyone (friends, neighbours, acquaintances) are in disbelief because they absolutely can't imagine him being capable of such a crime, or do some now feel and say, he was always a bit different/odd/creepy ... whatever ? Are there interviews with friends, teachers, etc? Or is that not allowed in a case with a minor?

In the video it was also said that the family was surprised by the arrest and would be surprised if he'd be convicted. (at 2:23 onwards) Are they totally in denial or why are they saying that?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

yes! probably dad and mom asked to bring him in and it was done there..

Interesting theory...

So you think mom and dad requested to bring him in?
Please explain....

Or do you think mom and dad WERE asked (by LE) to bring him in...

TIA...:seeya:

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Interesting theory...

So you think mom and dad requested to bring him in?
Please explain....

Or do you think mom and dad WERE asked (by LE) to bring him in...

TIA...:seeya:

I posted that too. I believe all along he was being questioned for obvious reasons and they probably had all the evidence/results needed by Saturday to arrest him. The police going to their house - if they were even staying there - would cause a circus, but because he was the only one at home during the crime, it would not be unusual that he would be called in to give statements and tell what he knew.

I firmly believe they got him to confess after they presented lots of inconsistencies in his versions. I could be wrong.

Hindsight is always 20/20 on this and I'm sure we'll hear all sorts of stories about this kid. Parents would never want to believe this could happen to them and yes, I would blame them if they ignored obvious signs but let's face it, just one kid is tough to handle but then you have half-siblings and step-siblings and its a lot to manage. I feel only empathy for the parents AT THIS STAGE and I hope the community will not turn their backs on them because they need a support system at the moment.

 

[Starry Night]

if IF did it-can we help him-change him? Could we have before? Or is it too late.......Horrendous violent crime full of rage.
Just his age and the age of the victim leaves one reeling.
One is torn by the magnitude of the crime and the questions re why. We are left with a human being who may or may not be rehabilitated.
Can a violent killer ever be rehabbed and how could you ever predict that he would or would not?

 

[vasportsmom]

I have a nephew who is 10-11 years old who has been violent with his sisters from the age of 4-5. He is small for his age but very intelligent. He was once caught trying to burn the baby with a hot light bulb. He has been in treatment for years and gives evidence (says he hears voices) of being psychotic. So far there has been some improvement and he is able to function in society. Naturally he is carefully monitored. JMO but if this young man had displayed aggression early on could treatment have prevented this? He does have and odd affect like my nephew. JMO

I'm so torn on this. I can't imagine a 12 year old, with no previous indicators of violent tendencies, suddenly snapping and stabbing a sibling over twenty times but OTOH, if the signs were there, why was he left home alone with a vulnerable child? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I have no doubt that in hindsight, and as things come to light all the signs will be there, especially for his parents once they come out of the natural state of denial they would be in right now .. but that does not mean this was predictable for them by any means .. no-one thinks things will end in murder, especially where children are involved.

 

[vasportsmom]

I have no doubt that in hindsight, and as things come to light all the signs will be there, especially for his parents once they come out of the natural state of denial they would be in right now .. but that does not mean this was predictable for them by any means .. no-one thinks things will end in murder, especially where children are involved.

I hope you are right and they didn't see this coming. If it turns out that this wasn't his first violent episode then they deserve to be charged right along with him.

I'm really struggling to grasp how a 12 year old child could pull this off this messy, brutal crime without causing injury to himself - most adults would have cuts to their hands after inflicting 21 stab wounds and how did he clean up effectively enough to not be arrested on the spot? His clothes should have been covered in very telling blood splatter. I don't doubt that IF is guilty but I will be shocked if he hadn't acted out before in ways that caused great concern and if that fact didn't lead to some attempt by others to help clean up and cover up.

 

[tlcya]

It has never been considered rude to ask if someone has a MSM link to information. Sometimes language can can be misinterpreted, especially when it is not your first or second language.

:hug: CNNAnh

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I hope you are right and they didn't see this coming. If it turns out that this wasn't his first violent episode then they deserve to be charged right along with him.

I'm really struggling to grasp how a 12 year old child could pull this off this messy, brutal crime without causing injury to himself - most adults would have cuts to their hands after inflicting 21 stab wounds and how did he clean up effectively enough to not be arrested on the spot? His clothes should have been covered in very telling blood splatter. I don't doubt that IF is guilty but I will be shocked if he hadn't acted out before in ways that caused great concern and if that fact didn't lead to some attempt by others to help clean up and cover up.

He could have been planning this, or at least planning on harming her, for a long time.

I would venture to say the investigators found blood evidence using luminol on for example the shower or even the plumbing that would have pointed to a clean up.

Good point someone stated about the neighbor possibly seeing HIM and then the police realizing who they were sketching. This neighbor bothers me that they seemed to have the same story initially and then poof, it's all for naught. Was she asked to cover for him? How old was the neighbor? The problem is, if for some reason this kid pleads not guilty, there is a shred of doubt right there by the neighbor coming forward with the same story out of the gate. I just wonder what the real story was with that.

 

[vasportsmom]

It has never been considered rude to ask if someone has a MSM link to information. Sometimes language can can be misinterpreted, especially when it is not your first or second language.

:hug: CNNAnh

I will add that if a piece of information is new to you then it is prudent to ask for a MSM link rather than risk perpetrating a rumor. The responsibility for providing an accepted source for facts has always been placed on the individual posters and no member should be offended at being asked to do so since they agreed to it upon joining.

 

[believe09]

If the family really is unhappy with the investigation then I'm very surprised by the stepmom's FB post (quoted in CNN article). She gave no indication that she felt IF was wrongly accused. IMO her post read more as a "give us time to digest this news" statement than a "we think this was bungled and our son is innocent" declaration.

I think it is fair to say they are in shock.

 

[The Cheese]

What's next for 12-year-old suspect in Fowler murder?

Legal Analyst Bill Portanova explains why the suspect may or may not be charged as an adult.

In California, a 12 year old, if convicted as a juvenile, would serve time only until he is 25 years old and then be released.

A person tried and sentenced for the same crime as an adult could be locked up for life.

"Juvenile law is different than adult criminal law because the goal of juvenile law is rehabilitation. The goal of adult law is punishment," said Bill Portanova, News10 Legal Analyst

"Some kids are just so bad so early that the prosecutor has a right to drag them into adult court even when they're very very young. But a judge has to make that decision."

For now, the boy will go to juvenile court for a hearing. The court will decide if there's any chance of rehabilitating him.

http://www.news10.net/news/article/244918/2/Whats-next-for-12-year-old-suspect-in-Fowler-murder

 

[The Cheese]

Can 12-year-old murder suspect be tried as adult?

A legal analyst breaks down the Leila Fowler murder case and discusses whether or not her 12-year-old brother could be charged as an adult.

Video at http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2013/05/13/2154809/

 

[The Cheese]

Residents Feel ‘Betrayed’ Following Arrest Of Leila Fowler’s Brother

Now some who spent weeks living in fear are angry and confused. The town of 7,600 people is trying to move on, but they are feeling betrayed and lied to. They thought an intruder had killed Leila Fowler, but now efforts to support the victim’s family are ending.

snipped

As neighbors locked up their homes, rally to help was underway. Jim Rebstock and others began reaching out to neighbors, hoping to help ease any financial burdens the family may have in the wake of Fowler’s death.

“We were doing it because we needed to support a family,” he said.

The spaghetti feed and auction was set for next Monday, but when the girl’s brother was arrested — everything changed.

“We started getting calls from people that had bought tickets and were asking for their money back. They were hurt; they were angry,” said Rebstock.

“They do feel betrayed by the parents because they feel like the parents knew all along,” said neighbor Julie Hall.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013...ed-following-arrest-of-leila-fowlers-brother/

 

[vasportsmom]

He could have been planning this, or at least planning on harming her, for a long time.

I would venture to say the investigators found blood evidence using luminol on for example the shower or even the plumbing that would have pointed to a clean up.

Good point someone stated about the neighbor possibly seeing HIM and then the police realizing who they were sketching. This neighbor bothers me that they seemed to have the same story initially and then poof, it's all for naught. Was she asked to cover for him? How old was the neighbor? The problem is, if for some reason this kid pleads not guilty, there is a shred of doubt right there by the neighbor coming forward with the same story out of the gate. I just wonder what the real story was with that.

I am so curious about the neighbor. Her involvement leads to more questions than answers. If her story was unprompted by LE then I find it very suspicious. Even if the details aren't exact the fact that she reported seeing a man run from the home near the time that IF reported the same is one heck of a coincidence. Her relationship with this child and/or his family is going to be important IMO.

 

[believe09]

Respectfully, I sometimes think thinking like this is dangerous. Which crimes do we explain away with raging hormones? The reason why these crimes are SO incredibly rare (when you take into account how often they happen vs. the population of teens,) is because it's not normal. OK, lets say it's raging hormones. When does that stop, and something else very scary take over? The second stab? The third? The fourth? The fifth? The 21st? What about Jessica Ridgeway's killer? He was a teenager. Can him raping and killing be blamed on hormones? What about all the serial killers who confess to starting raping or killing in their teens? Was that hormones, too? What about teenagers who molest very young children? Is that hormones? Columbine...hormones? It's such a very slippery slope. I seriously hope raging hormones can never be used in any kind of defense. The crimes are outrageous and devastating, because they can't be explained by typical explanations. In my opinion, of course...and respectively so.

I can see impulse being hitting, yelling, throwing, etc. Stabbing 21 times? I just don't understand how that can be explained by hormones and impulse. I wish my mind would let it, to be very honest.

Maybe without easy access to a weapon, it wouldnt have happened at all. I dont think anyone should discount the immaturity of a child's brain. Absolutely not in a crime like this one. Take for example the 12 year old who shot his pregnant step mother. Or the 12 year old who shot his Neo Nazi father. Kids get raging and angry, most especially imvho, a tween boy. They cant handle it and depending on the kind of child they are, they will off load it in a specific way. Maybe she was teasing him, maybe there was a slap fight that got out of hand. Maybe he was supposed to go to the game but she was sick and he had to stay and watch her or he was being punished..I dont know what triggered him but at some point he decided to get a knife and end it. And it wasnt enough to stab her once-he was still driven by whatever caused him to do it (I think clearly it was anger) until something stopped him. Maybe the knife broke or he finally came to his senses. And then he lied about it...kids lie when they know they are going to get into trouble.

To me, from my 30K foot view, this is a sibling squabble magnified to the millionth degree and gone terribly terribly wrong. And I think there is a possibility that he was on a stimulant of some kind because the dx du jour for kids these days is ADD or ADHD. (Which doesnt mean, of course, that kids arent appropriately diagnosed and treated for those challenges.)

From an outsiders point of view, there was a lot going on in this large blended family.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Sunday night at Good Friends Chinese Buffet, residents again gathered to consider the boy's story. Some in the past had sided with him, but others had characterized him as a bully.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/sns-la-me-0513-leila-fowler-20130513,0,4887568.story

Is the "bully" part just the media's word or is it saying that people questioned the brother's story because he was known to be a bully?

I want to know what the brother was like before this happened. Was he a bully? Was he arrogant? Or was he very quiet, no friends, kept to himself?

 

[Elainera]

I hope you are right and they didn't see this coming. If it turns out that this wasn't his first violent episode then they deserve to be charged right along with him.

I'm really struggling to grasp how a 12 year old child could pull this off this messy, brutal crime without causing injury to himself - most adults would have cuts to their hands after inflicting 21 stab wounds and how did he clean up effectively enough to not be arrested on the spot? His clothes should have been covered in very telling blood splatter. I don't doubt that IF is guilty but I will be shocked if he hadn't acted out before in ways that caused great concern and if that fact didn't lead to some attempt by others to help clean up and cover up.

Your second para: Exactly my thoughts!

One other question I have is this: the father was at the house before police got there - there was a mention that he was white as a sheet craddling Leila when police arrived. How did he get there faster than the police?