GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #3

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Do you think if the brother had been home with another one of his siblings instead of Leila, would he have killed them? I'm not sure whether the two of them had an argument or he if planned to kill her. If there was an argument, well I am sure those kids have many arguments among themselves, so what was it about this time that it went too far? And would it have turned into murder if another sibling was home instead of Leila? And this explosive argument just happened to occur when only the two of them were home? I honestly think there's a possibility this was planned. But if it was, why Leila?
 
I just had an idea.... So I am jumping in...

I apologize if this has been discussed before... And if it lands in an awkward place in the thread...

It has been reported that the Fowler family went to the school to say good-bye on Friday...

I assume the family was planning on moving (thus saying good-bye)...

I wonder if LE decided to make the arrest soon after finding the Fowlers were moving in an attempt to keep them in the city....

the timing is interesting to me....

JMO
 
Yes. He's too young to be tried as an adult so his records will be sealed.

So if he came up for another crime in the future there would be no public record that this crime ever occurred?

Also how common is an identity change in the states for juveniles convicted of sensational crimes (I am just thinking back to the murderers of James Bulger who were given new identities upon release in the UK).

Just curious.
 
No, not on their own. And it's not the blended family that bothers me. It's the vitriolic nature of the custody issues. A boatload of anger in that home. And remember, I said "may have" contributed to the murder.

You know, in my family law practice, I have seen a few children literally driven mad - into the mental hospital - as a result of the battling and alienation on the part of their parents. You have to see it to believe it I guess, but this kind of anger can cause irreparable harm to kids. These kids are filled with such pressure and conflicting emotions and confusion, it is horrible.

I think some people just believe that the only reason a kid would commit such a revolting murder is due to pure evil on his part and nothing else. That could be true in this case but at this age, there could be other contributing factors as well, IMO. I don't think we can so easily ignore what was happening in these kids' environment. And it's clear there was a lot happening.

I believe it, because I've seen it.
I have a cousin in a similar situation... with a disturbed child.
He wasn't always a "disturbed child." I used to babysit the kid.

Before the divorce he was a rather normal child. A sweetheart really.
After the bitter divorce and custody battle he ended up with Dad
(who had more money and the better lawyer.)

Dad didn't directly talk to him about Mom, but he overheard things:

"My ex wife is such an evil witch."
"My ex wife is a heartless witch."
"My ex wife is so worthless, what a waste of air."
"My kid is trying to drive me insane acting like his mother."
"My kid is just like his mother."

He slowly started turning more and more into his mother.
(Who for the record is not heartless witch at all...)
People don't realize that some kids see themselves as an EXTENSION of their parents.
If you call their parents worthless, or useless, or evil... they will see themselves that way too. :twocents:

This kid has turned violent now. He lashed out at his younger sister... who is "just like Dad."
"Dad said that I was just like Mom... worthless, heartless, a waste of air. I must be."

Some kids internalize pain... and hurt themselves. Other kids lash out at other people. :twocents:

Kids are all different. Some actually have healthy outlets.
But those who don't, don't always lash out at OTHER people.:twocents:
 
So if he came up for another crime in the future there would be no public record that this crime ever occurred?

Also how common is an identity change in the states for juveniles convicted of sensational crimes (I am just thinking back to the murderers of James Bulger who were given new identities upon release in the UK).

Just curious.

I am pretty sure the U.S. court system does not provide name changes. I would think that child killers, when released from prison, can get their name changed but I don't believe it's like in the UK, where the court system does it for you.
 
Do you think if the brother had been home with another one of his siblings instead of Leila, would he have killed them? I'm not sure whether the two of them had an argument or he if planned to kill her. If there was an argument, well I am sure those kids have many arguments among themselves, so what was it about this time that it went too far? And would it have turned into murder if another sibling was home instead of Leila? And this explosive argument just happened to occur when only the two of them were home? I honestly think there's a possibility this was planned. But if it was, why Leila?

I think this happened because it was Leila. His full sibling.
I'm thinking that Leila was a Daddy's girl... and that I**** took after his Mom.

I think that the custody arrangement may have been very difficult on I***.
Obviously that didn't cause this alone but I think something may have triggered it.
Maybe a holiday coming up, Mother's Day? Someone's birthday?

I could be wrong, but I don't think it would have happened with another sibling. :twocents:
 
Andria Borba ‏@andria_borba 16m
Tonight on @FOX40 at 5:30 - Hear the 911 call that began the manhunt for Leila Fowler's killer.
 
Andria Borba ‏@andria_borba 16m
Tonight on @FOX40 at 5:30 - Hear the 911 call that began the manhunt for Leila Fowler's killer.

Perfect timing. Didn't someone mention wanting to hear them a few pages pack?
 
Andria Borba ‏@andria_borba 16m
Tonight on @FOX40 at 5:30 - Hear the 911 call that began the manhunt for Leila Fowler's killer.

WOW.

I don't think I want to, but I do think it can be very telling. I'm assuming that's California time, for those that want to listen?
 
Do you think if the brother had been home with another one of his siblings instead of Leila, would he have killed them? I'm not sure whether the two of them had an argument or he if planned to kill her. If there was an argument, well I am sure those kids have many arguments among themselves, so what was it about this time that it went too far? And would it have turned into murder if another sibling was home instead of Leila? And this explosive argument just happened to occur when only the two of them were home? I honestly think there's a possibility this was planned. But if it was, why Leila?

No. In my opinion, she was targeted. I might be totally wrong, of course...it's just my gut feeling.
 
It was the parents who called 911 right? Some articles say it was the parents who called, others say the brother also called.
 
I just had an idea.... So I am jumping in...

I apologize if this has been discussed before... And if it lands in an awkward place in the thread...

It has been reported that the Fowler family went to the school to say good-bye on Friday...

I assume the family was planning on moving (thus saying good-bye)...

I wonder if LE decided to make the arrest soon after finding the Fowlers were moving in an attempt to keep them in the city....

the timing is interesting to me....

JMO

Sorry to quote myself...

But to be more clear...

I have a feeling there may be another person(s) involved in some way... Yet the LE do not have all their ducks in a row yet to make another arrest...

possibly LE was waiting to make arrests when they were prepared to arrest all parties involved...

but felt they needed to make the arrest of the 12 year old more quickly when it became clear there was a chance the family was moving...

this may also help explain, first, the delay... And then the cancellation... Of the parents' press conference?

Just some thoughts...
 
Why Did Eric Kill? 48 Hours.

At this point, Smith has come as close as he ever has to answering the question that has haunted so many people for so many years. Why did he do it? "However minor or major each abuse situation, it all adds up. Until it gets to the point where the individual cannot take anymore," says Smith.

"After a while, they may cope in a horrific way or take their emotional anger or rage out on someone who had done nothing to bring on such violence like Derrick. Not because they’re evil or satanic little kids. It’s because they want the abuse to stop. And it’s the only way they know how to."

But Tunney points out that Smith had given the parole board a more chilling explanation for the killing. When asked if killing Robie gave him a good feeling, Smith said, in a transcript of the interview, "At the moment, it did, yes." When asked why he did it, Smith said, "Because instead of me being hurt, I was hurting someone else."

Smith then talks more about what he believes drives children to kill – and suggests that he was abused at home: "Although each case is different, there is always the underlying fact that the kids who did, who do these unthinkable crimes, endure years of abuse. Whether at school, at home, or both. I had issues at home. But I’m not going to talk about that."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18559_162-660314.html
 
So if he came up for another crime in the future there would be no public record that this crime ever occurred?

Also how common is an identity change in the states for juveniles convicted of sensational crimes (I am just thinking back to the murderers of James Bulger who were given new identities upon release in the UK).

Just curious.

Identity changes at tax payers expense aren't needed in the States because their judges have more sense than to allow children as young as ten to be named publically in the first place. Their names aren't revealed, and their records are sealed, much more sensible than the UK system.
 
Sorry to quote myself...

But to be more clear...

I have a feeling there may be another person(s) involved in some way... Yet the LE do not have all their ducks in a row yet to make another arrest...

possibly LE was waiting to make arrests when they were prepared to arrest all parties involved...

but felt they needed to make the arrest of the 12 year old more quickly when it became clear there was a chance the family was moving...

this may also help explain, first, the delay... And then the cancellation... Of the parents' press conference?

Just some thoughts...

But even if the family moved, why couldn't the LE arrest them at their new home? Unless you're implying that they were going to go on the run and become fugitives?
 
Identity changes at tax payers expense aren't needed in the States because their judges have more sense than to allow children as young as ten to be named publically in the first place. Their names aren't revealed, and their records are sealed, much more sensible than the UK system.

But the MSM has said IF's name in their articles....It also seems like most children who are arrested for murder have their names revealed in the media. Maybe it's not the court that releases it, but there doesn't seem to be a law against the media using their name.
 
It was the parents who called 911 right? Some articles say it was the parents who called, others say the brother also called.

My understanding the parents called then dispatch called the boy
 
But the MSM has said IF's name in their articles....It also seems like most children who are arrested for murder have their names revealed in the media. Maybe it's not the court that releases it, but there doesn't seem to be a law against the media using their name.

Which is the exact reason James Bulgers killers were given new identities. In regards to records, if IF came up again for another crime in his 20's under a new name we may never be able to connect him to this one. The only reason we know Venables was later arrested for distributing child *advertiser censored* is because his new identity was exposed and the court refused to give him a third one.
 
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