GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #3

[CHERIE.T]

I am seriously WTF with this family. No offense but CW and BF aren't even married so .....she is NOT the stepmother or mother or whatev's. She is dad's GF.

And her hateful FB comments about birthmom PR are just distasteful.

I honestly don't know the dynamic here, but I know the milk ain't clean and also, a little girl is dead.

Were IF and LF the only two kids that were bio kids of Barney and Priscilla? Is that why they were not included on the family outing?

Something isn't right, here, aside from that boy butchering his sister.

THANK YOU and amen. :ditto:

 

[white rabbit]

one more point...pubescent teens don't fare well with lethargy. the day before the murder, both toyon middle school and jenny lind elementary had a scheduled half-day.

http://www.calaveras.k12.ca.us/04 Calendars/2012-2013.pdf

IF attended the middle, LF jenny lind...so there was a lot of time for parents and children to bond, fight, linger, et cetera...

jmo...

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Yes, we are at liberty. My point was that LE did not say, with the same certainty as gitana1, that IF was alone and committed the crime.

Probable cause:
In United States criminal law, probable cause is the standard by which an officer or agent of the law has the grounds to make an arrest, to conduct a personal or property search, or to obtain a warrant for arrest, etc. when criminal charges are being considered.

- The Supreme Court decision Illinois v. Gates 462 U.S. 213 (1983)[10] lowered the threshold of probable cause by ruling that a "substantial chance" or "fair probability" of criminal activity could establish probable cause. A better-than-even chance is not required.

Criminal Charge
A criminal charge is a formal accusation made by a governmental authority asserting that somebody has committed a crime.
- Definition of asserting - to state with assurance (not to state as fact)

KRON 4 News ‏@kron4news 10m
2nd degree murder charges filed in Calaveras County against 12 year old boy accused of stabbing his 8 year old... http://fb.me/IDSJFbBe

with special allegation that he used a deadly and dangerous weapon in the commission of the offense.

They have charged him with 2nd Degree Murder .. they have not said he was alone, nor have they charged anyone else ..

 

[Cappuccino]

FWIW, the defense attorney does not say IF may have lied about the intruder's existence. He says



I take that to mean IF may have lied about scaring off THE intruder. (statement implies there was an intruder)

Now if he had said IF may have lied about scaring off AN intruder. (statement implies there was no intruder)

he also said



http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=183839203

in other words, attorney is still sticking with the intruder story

So his story's going to be something like - "I was scared and locked myself in the bathroom while an intruder killed my sister, then was ashamed to say so."

That could almost be believable of a 12 yr old boy, only where's the evidence of an intruder, and where's the motive for anyone to break in?

 

[blue22]

I'm wondering what IF said to the dispatcher when 911 rang the house.

Me too!!!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I am seriously WTF with this family. No offense but CW and BF aren't even married so .....she is NOT the stepmother or mother or whatev's. She is dad's GF.

And her hateful FB comments about birthmom PR are just distasteful.

I honestly don't know the dynamic here, but I know the milk ain't clean and also, a little girl is dead.

Were IF and LF the only two kids that were bio kids of Barney and Priscilla? Is that why they were not included on the family outing?

Something isn't right, here, aside from that boy butchering his sister.

I think Justin and the older sister are children of both Priscilla and Barney. Or are they from another marriage? There's some confusion about whether the older sister was at the game...but I haven't heard any mention of Justin being there. I don't see any reason to think that IF and Leila were not at the game because of who their parents are. They probably just didn't want to sit around, on the grass, in the sun, to watch some little kids play baseball. Boring.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think Justin and the older sister are children of both Priscilla and Barney. Or are they from another marriage? There's some confusion about whether the older sister was at the game...but I haven't heard any mention of Justin being there. I don't see any reason to think that IF and Leila were not at the game because of who their parents are. They probably just didn't want to sit around, on the grass, in the sun, to watch some little kids play baseball. Boring.

Also how many people were in the car heading over, it may have been too many for that vehicle?

 

[tlcya]

Did IF call his sister and her boyfriend himself? Or did either Barney or Crystal call the sister (who I assume was with her boyfriend at the time) to call the house? Were they altogether in the car?

From the background sounds of Crystal's 911 call, I think the older daughter and her BF were right there next to Crystal one the phone IF caller her on as she used someone else's (probably daughter BF's) to call 911.

 

[Davereid]

Yes, we are at liberty. My point was that LE did not say, with the same certainty as gitana1, that IF was alone and committed the crime.

Probable cause:
In United States criminal law, probable cause is the standard by which an officer or agent of the law has the grounds to make an arrest, to conduct a personal or property search, or to obtain a warrant for arrest, etc. when criminal charges are being considered.

- The Supreme Court decision Illinois v. Gates 462 U.S. 213 (1983)[10] lowered the threshold of probable cause by ruling that a "substantial chance" or "fair probability" of criminal activity could establish probable cause. A better-than-even chance is not required.

Criminal Charge
A criminal charge is a formal accusation made by a governmental authority asserting that somebody has committed a crime.
- Definition of asserting - to state with assurance (not to state as fact)

My understanding, albeit limited in some details of this case, is that the sherrif's department has not released any details as far as him being alone, motive, evidence, etc. But since he was charged and not held and released, I would assume they have probable cause.

http://m.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/12-year-old-brother-charged-second-degree-murder-s/nXrQw/


Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk 2

 

[CountryGirl]

There has to be a recording of the 911 operator calling the house.

 

[tlcya]

MOO bio mom has a history. There is some reason BF had and has had for at least several years, physical custody. Bio mom in her few statements to the press, indicates that when Leila and IF were little they got along great and he adored her.

IMO, bio mom has not been around or involved for some years. I am not judging. I am simply pointing out that there must be a backstory and I am not prepared to judge any one of the three adults parents or stepmom figure based on their complicated dynamic.

There is a lot that is not out in the open and it is probably best that it remain that way.

 

[CountryGirl]

From the article above:

The boy told police he scared off an intruder. For two-weeks, Calaveras County sheriff's investigators searched door to door for witnesses and evidence before arresting the boy on Saturday.

The boy's attorney also said that while the youngster might have lied about seeing a long-haired intruder fleeing the scene, that doesn't make the boy the killer.

 

[FrayedKnot]

So his story's going to be something like - "I was scared and locked myself in the bathroom while an intruder killed my sister, then was ashamed to say so."

That could almost be believable of a 12 yr old boy, only where's the evidence of an intruder, and where's the motive for anyone to break in?

Sounds an awful lot like how ashamed Jodi Arias was over leaving poor Travis mortally wounded at the hands of the ninjas.

 

[scorekeeper]

So his story's going to be something like - "I was scared and locked myself in the bathroom while an intruder killed my sister, then was ashamed to say so."

That could almost be believable of a 12 yr old boy, only where's the evidence of an intruder, and where's the motive for anyone to break in?

Authorities say an intruder fatally attacked Leila on Saturday in her Rancho Calaveras home. Her 12-year-old brother encountered the intruder, who fled on foot.

Authorities have said the killer is a white man or Latino, 6 feet tall and muscular. He was last seen wearing a black, long-sleeved shirt and blue pants. He is considered armed and dangerous.

The Calaveras County Coroner's Office reported Monday that Leila died from shock and hemorrhaging from stab wounds.

Deputy Coroner Steve Moore said Leila arrived by ambulance at Mark Twain Medical Center in San Andreas at 12:55 p.m. Saturday and was pronounced dead at 1:01 p.m. At the request of investigators, Moore declined to release other details.

Kuntz said it appears that the intruder intended to attack the girl, and that the incident was not a botched robbery or other crime gone wrong.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/04/30/5381834/calaveras-sheriff-vows-to-find.html#storylink=cpy

From April 30, 2013 - BBM

 

[Cappuccino]

Sounds an awful lot like how ashamed Jodi Arias was over leaving poor Travis mortally wounded at the hands of the ninjas.

Not really. Jodi Arias isn't 12 years old, but I could see a kid making up a stupid story like that through a mixture of not understanding how serious it is to lie to the police, and thinking that his parents will hate him if he tells the truth.

Not that I buy it in this case, but I could see it happening.

 

[gitana1]

Gitano...

I want to give you a BIG THANK YOU for taking the time to clarify so succinctly our questions regarding the legalities of this baffling case!

:gthanks:

Here are some treats for your efforts...

:coffeews: :cupcake:

These treats go along with the three figure salary you earn here at WS for your work as a legal consultant! :wink:

Thanks. I;m always worried that I:m being too blunt and that people will get mad at me. But I;m always typing on my phone, at court or in the office between calls. I don;t always have time to be nice!!!!! But I love everyone and I hope I don;t sound rude.

 

[jjenny]

Not really. Jodi Arias isn't 12 years old, but I could see a kid making up a stupid story like that through a mixture of not understanding how serious it is to lie to the police, and thinking that his parents will hate him if he tells the truth.

Not that I buy it in this case, but I could see it happening.

What would be the truth?

 

[tlcya]

From the article above:

The boy told police he scared off an intruder. For two-weeks, Calaveras County sheriff's investigators searched door to door for witnesses and evidence before arresting the boy on Saturday.

The boy's attorney also said that while the youngster might have lied about seeing a long-haired intruder fleeing the scene, that doesn't make the boy the killer.

my apologies CountryGirl, your post fell after a post with no link. Happens to me all the time. Can you shoot me the link to the above BBY? TIA

 

[Cappuccino]

Authorities say an intruder fatally attacked Leila on Saturday in her Rancho Calaveras home. Her 12-year-old brother encountered the intruder, who fled on foot.

Authorities have said the killer is a white man or Latino, 6 feet tall and muscular. He was last seen wearing a black, long-sleeved shirt and blue pants. He is considered armed and dangerous.

The Calaveras County Coroner's Office reported Monday that Leila died from shock and hemorrhaging from stab wounds.

Deputy Coroner Steve Moore said Leila arrived by ambulance at Mark Twain Medical Center in San Andreas at 12:55 p.m. Saturday and was pronounced dead at 1:01 p.m. At the request of investigators, Moore declined to release other details.

Kuntz said it appears that the intruder intended to attack the girl, and that the incident was not a botched robbery or other crime gone wrong.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/04/30/5381834/calaveras-sheriff-vows-to-find.html#storylink=cpy

From April 30, 2013 - BBM

Right so a random intruder breaks into a house belonging to complete strangers and stabs an 8 year old to death. No robbery, no sexual motive. I don't find that believable. MOO.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Not really. Jodi Arias isn't 12 years old, but I could see a kid making up a stupid story like that through a mixture of not understanding how serious it is to lie to the police, and thinking that his parents will hate him if he tells the truth.

Not that I buy it in this case, but I could see it happening.

I agree. I simply meant both stories are equally (un)believable.

Regardless of the author.

Also, the family/defense has not actually come out with such a story as yet. I understand it was just a comment from another poster. I just remarked on it's similarity to one of Jodi Arias' many lies. :twocents: