GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #3

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Linda7NJ said:
How do you get any worse than killing a little girl by stabbing her 21 times???


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Seriously. That many times just means absolutely psychotic and evil. That us a very personal, horrifying thing to do to someone. And to be able to stab that many times when it would be such a scary time means he was absolutely filled with rage and hatred. This is worse to me then if it was just one stab and then a young person could realize what they had done. You can not say that with 21 times.


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TheDuchess said:
The pain in the faces of the little brother and her little friend is heart wrenching and to know now who caused this??? These are the little people I grieve for more than anything. Even the little baby boy there. :anguish:
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And he just stand their staring like he's on drugs. I wish we could know about his background. Was a diagnosed already with a mental disorder? Was he on medication? Were there any signs?


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michmi said:
Just from all the photographs, it's clear to an outsider there was "them" and then there was "him". I doubt the parents even noticed, or if they did they were deeply in denial.
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That was the first thing that struck me!
 
You are absolutely correct on that one. I stated in a previous post we might find out he had a history of setting fires, cruelty to animals and late bed wetting. I still have some suspicion she may have sexually abused. It is hard to hear but sibling incest is the most frequent. I just read an article about the rates of sibling incest in India and the statistics were unbelievably high. I will find that link and post it in a few. Biography has this show called "Child Killers". I watched an episode about this 17 year old boy in Canada, Peter Woodcock, who murdered 3 kids and did horrible things to them. I usually am okay with hearing these stories but this one made me sick. He was found insane and sent to an institution where he murdered another patient when they put him in medium security. They called him the serial killer they could not cure-go figure. My point is in agreement that if he is a budding sociopath there is nothing the psychiatric community can do to "cure" him. That is unless they go back to labotomizing people;)

Here is the article I mentioned:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/259959.stm


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Re: the CNN article about CW's facebook request...

I thought that her last name was Walters?

They also reported earlier today that IF was the one who spoke at Leila's vigil. Too hard to link it right now (on cellphone and on the road) but will try later if edit option is still available.
 
danzn16 said:
This kid obviously has conduct disorder. A great percentage go one to have antisocial disorder even with treatment. i do hope he can be rehabilitated however reality stands the way it is. He is very likely to abuse others, even kill, if he gets out at 18. Especially since that we know if he has had a good family and has not been abused or experienced trauma that would bring out this disorder. he may just be born that way. I would think that would be even harder to rehabilitate. It's such a hard situation and hard to decide what should happen to a child like this.


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Mods said not to diagnose. So I won't say that I think he has a CD. But IF he was diagnosed with one, I would be verysurprised that there were no prior incidents. I have taught several children with CDs, all of whom ended up in residential treatment centers before their eighth birthdays. CDs seem to make themselves known in multiple ways.

I think these things will begin coming out shortly.
 
Will any more information really be released?. (As far as evidence, his past, mental health issues if any, motive, etc.) Since he is a juvenile, aren't all of those things sealed from the public?
 
danzn16 said:
This kid obviously has conduct disorder. A great percentage go one to have antisocial disorder even with treatment. i do hope he can be rehabilitated however reality stands the way it is. He is very likely to abuse others, even kill, if he gets out at 18. Especially since that we know if he has had a good family and has not been abused or experienced trauma that would bring out this disorder. he may just be born that way. I would think that would be even harder to rehabilitate. It's such a hard situation and hard to decide what should happen to a child like this.


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BBM Speculative ? How can we ' know' this ?
 
TheDuchess said:
The pain in the faces of the little brother and her little friend is heart wrenching and to know now who caused this??? These are the little people I grieve for more than anything. Even the little baby boy there. :anguish:
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And 12 year old just stares in all the photos of him that I have seen.
 
I don't understand where people are not paying attention to what kind of drugs are out there and that he could have been given.
There are heinous sprees that even adults go on because of same. To me-this could be a mitigating factor.
12 years old- a good-looking boy-who knows who gave him what when.
I would be looking into that aspect.

There are plenty of 18 year olds in prison for life because of drugs, peer pressure, anger, lax rules growing up , emotional reactive stances in various situations, etc.

We really don't know a lot about his life-but if the posturing of certain family members online demonstrate, frustration and anger may have influenced him.

Hindsight............



it doesn't change the fact he is charged or may be guilty. No telling what precipitated this incident.
 
We don't have enough information for anyone to say this child has any particular disorder, syndrome or mental health issue. Obviously something went very very wrong here. But we have no knowledge of his history of his previous traumas (if any exist), his previous behaviors or what sort of life he has led prior.

We can assume he has a good solid family life, but that is all it would be, an assumption. We can assume something is wrong with him mentally based on his horrific act, but that too is just an assumption with no actual facts to support it.

I feel there is some sort of issue based on his affect post murder. But that is just a feeling, I have no idea if his flat affect was present before the murder or it was only there after.

We really have no facts on which to base our thoughts so anything going here must be looked as as armchair psychology and we have been told to stay away from that per mod directive.

Those poor siblings, such a lot to absorb. :(
 
Wanted to say that all of us knew this was the possible outcome of the investigation, many thought so from day one, others like myself tried to give the kid the benefit of the doubt, despite knowing that it was possible he was the perp all along.

I am really proud of how our members stayed within TOS and waited for the LE announcement before discussing this young man. I know how hard it was for some of you but you refrained and sat on your hands til he was discussable.

Ya'll are great and I am proud to be associated with all of you.
 
thefragile7393 said:
I cringe when I think of the kids in the Jonesboro shootings or poor little Jamie Bulger. Stuff like that should be in prison forever....you can't rehab mass murder or torturing a child. I tend to look for the best in many and look for hope
in many situations. Young violent offenders stats are bleak though. If of course this young man is guilty.....I still hope not but.....well there are a lot of "buts."
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The Jonesboro shootings are very much on my mind while reading about this case. One of the Jonesboro shooters came to NW Arkansas. While people were going about their business (including my own son who walked home from work in the dark), that Jonesboro shooter was driving the streets...with a gun!

Part of the description of the incident as related on Wiki:

On January 1, 2007, Johnson was arrested by the ATF after a traffic stop in Fayetteville, Arkansas on misdemeanor charges of carrying a weapon—a loaded 9 mm pistol—and possession of 21.2 grams of marijuana. Though the van Johnson was riding in was registered to him, the driver was 22-year-old Justin Trammell. Trammell and Johnson reportedly met at Alexander Youth Services Correctional Facility in Alexander, Arkansas, where Trammell was incarcerated after pleading guilty to the 1999 crossbow murder of his father, a crime committed when Trammell was 15. The pair were roommates and provided officers with the same Fayetteville address. Trammell was cited for careless driving and released. Johnson was arrested for possession of marijuana and a loaded weapon and later released on a $1,000 bond. He had a court appearance on January 26, 2007 at the Washington County, Arkansas courthouse.

Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
danzn16 said:
Seriously. That many times just means absolutely psychotic and evil. That us a very personal, horrifying thing to do to someone. And to be able to stab that many times when it would be such a scary time means he was absolutely filled with rage and hatred. This is worse to me then if it was just one stab and then a young person could realize what they had done. You can not say that with 21 times.


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I think we all agree that someone stabbing someone else 21 times would have blood all over him. I think we can also agree that if he was covered with blood, OR his bloody clothes were discovered early on, LE would not hesitate to have arrested him immediately, regardless of his age, as this is MURDER, and public safety is always at risk when a murderer is free, even if he is 12. I personally believe, in retrospect, that LE suspected him from the beginning, but needed evidence or a confession to get an arrest warrant. Therefore, I have to deduce that he cleaned up well to some degree, via a shower and ditched his clothes- then, when he was ready, called his parents with the phony story, who then called 911 (or someone called 911).

Given these facts, and the fact that LF was alive upon arrival at the hospital, I am CHILLED that she lay dying for a period of time unknown to us, but seemingly more than 10-15min or so. Poor, poor angel... There is something missing in that boy's soul. JMO, but when people have that "something" missing, I don't believe any amount of counseling or medication will replace it.
 
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I wanted to say I apologize if my postulating seemed like diagnosing. I agree there have been some loose conversation regarding there being something psychologically wrong with him. But I think in cases like this, especially involving children, people tend to retrospectively or prospectively label to find some kind of rationale for this awful crime. I read and have watched everything about Adam Lana because I want to know why. My husband told me in the beginning I was getting obsessed with it because I was so upset and needed to know some reason, any reason. I think that is what is going on here an no one has meant to offend anyone just trying to find a reason why.
I quoted the picture of the family because there have been discussions of the boy's lack of smiling. I assume he is the one in the hat with the dark brows. He looks like an awkward adolescent but certainly does not have the "crazy eyes" like Lanza. I suspect there are a lot of preadolescent boys who do not smile in family pics. Hard to say because after knowing what he did it is hard to look at him objectively.
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is it me, or does he look much more like a teenager than a 12 year old boy in the pic of him at the vigil?
 
Linda7NJ said:
The 8 yr old on AZ that murdered two people is now 12 years old... He's not rehabilitated hasnt even made progress IMO
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news...rizona-boy-killed-father-probation/53808790/1

They need a special place to house these kids and the best in the country to attempt rehabilitation if they one day must be released.

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I know we are getting a bit O/T but wanted to respond with a more recent development in that particular case. I actually DO believe that young children can be rehabilitated. Perhaps not every case, as every case is different. I do think it should be noted that this particular boy was only 8 years old at the time and there was evidence of abuse in the home.

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/regio...boy-charged-in-2008-double-murder-in-st-johns

A clinical psychologist who has been meeting with an Arizona boy sentenced on a negligent homicide charge testified Friday that he sees improvement in the boy and even offered up his own home for continued treatment.

Read more: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/regio...-2008-double-murder-in-st-johns#ixzz2T89BSdoa
 
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