GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

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She has a good point. I have depression and have had for years. I have been told various things about the depression. It is physical, my body doesn't produce enough Seritonin, it is an emotional illness, low levels of vitamin D in the body has been connected to depression and even that my genetics may have made me suseptible.)

The truth is they really don't know what causes most mental health disorders. (for instance in a family group where there are 4 kids and at least one parent with schizophrenia, not all the kids will have schizophrenia. Maybe none of them will.) They can say they believe there may be a genetic connection, but they can't truly say for sure.

This topic can be debated and debated with little resolution. There is a psychiatrist, Thomas Szasz, who believed that many mental illnesses are neither mental nor illness but problem coping behaviors. He believed many illnesses labeled as mental disease were poor ways of dealing with life. So people may act out with hostility or depression instead of just dealing with their problems. The basis of his ideas were that it was still behavior not disease. Looking at it as disease takes the reponsibility of the behavior off the individual and gave the medical community license to create a social definition of normal according to Szasz.
http://www.szasz.com/manifesto.html


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Interesting case and lots of similarities to this one. Thanks evelyn!

This is from the homepage:
http://www.zachwitman.com/



Worth a read.

He's still in jail after 15 years.

That website is maintained by the parents and lawyer, and incredibly biased. There was a lot of evidence, which is conveniently not mentioned on the website. Just FYI.
 
This topic can be debated and debated with little resolution. There is a psychiatrist, Thomas Szasz, who believed that many mental illnesses are neither mental nor illness but problem coping behaviors. He believed many illnesses labeled as mental disease were poor ways of dealing with life. So people may act out with hostility or depression instead of just dealing with their problems. The basis of his ideas were that it was still behavior not disease. Looking at it as disease takes the reponsibility of the behavior off the individual and gave the medical community license to create a social definition of normal according to Szasz.
http://www.szasz.com/manifesto.html


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Thank you
 
This topic can be debated and debated with little resolution. There is a psychiatrist, Thomas Szasz, who believed that many mental illnesses are neither mental nor illness but problem coping behaviors. He believed many illnesses labeled as mental disease were poor ways of dealing with life. So people may act out with hostility or depression instead of just dealing with their problems. The basis of his ideas were that it was still behavior not disease. Looking at it as disease takes the reponsibility of the behavior off the individual and gave the medical community license to create a social definition of normal according to Szasz.
http://www.szasz.com/manifesto.html


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Like I said, there are lots of different thoughts. But no one seems to really know. BTW what causes problem coping behaviors did he say?
 
that dumb site was telling me it was just me though. Said WS was up each time I checked it. Must be a scam site, trolling for people to pay for something.

Happened to me too a couple of times with that website. Try this one next time: isitdownrightnow.com . That seems to be legit and accurate every time I check there.

That website is maintained by the parents and lawyer, and incredibly biased. There was a lot of evidence, which is conveniently not mentioned on the website. Just FYI.

I know ;) Was just one of the first ones that came up with google. But you're right to point that out.
 
Just because some sick kids are committing crimes while home alone doesn't mean the rest of America needs to be punished. Making it so kids under 16 can't be home alone would be extremely inconvenient for most families. What about parents who work full-time? Where do their kids go? Some schools have after-school programs, but have a certain number of kids they can accept. And what happens if both parents (or one parent in a single parent home) want to go to somewhere for like 2 hours...why does the 15-year-old have to come too?

Kids under 16 are held accountable for their actions. It varies by state, but it's usually under age 8-10, that they cannot be charged with a crime. I don't see a lot of people who say that anyone under 16 is brain dead and shouldn't be held responsible for their actions? I don't see anyone saying that actually.

Well maybe not 16, but there is too much room for blame here. If the 12 yr old is the babysitter then I would assume that the parents thought he was capable. I know I would never leave a 12 yr old and 8 yr old home alone, but that's just me. The point is that if a 12 year old is old is responsible enough to stay home alone and or also babysit then how is he now not responsible for what he did. If what I think is true then this 12 yr old not only killed/murdered his sister he then went forward with the coverup. He had to have taken a shower( which we heard about) and then clean up some of the home to take the blame off of himself. He had the intellect to makeup a suspect, and a clothing description. I think it will get uglier before it is over. 21 stab wounds,TWENTY ONE
 
Well maybe not 16, but there is too much room for blame here. If the 12 yr old is the babysitter then I would assume that the parents thought he was capable. I know I would never leave a 12 yr old and 8 yr old home alone, but that's just me. The point is that if a 12 year old is old is responsible enough to stay home alone and or also babysit then how is he now not responsible for what he did. If what I think is true then this 12 yr old not only killed/murdered his sister he then went forward with the coverup. He had to have taken a shower( which we heard about) and then clean up some of the home to take the blame off of himself. He had the intellect to makeup a suspect, and a clothing description. I think it will get uglier before it is over. 21 stab wounds,TWENTY ONE

But who is saying the 12-year-old is not responsible for what he did? If he is convicted, he'll be imprisoned until he is 25 years old. Personally, I don't like that he will be released eventually but I don't see how going to jail for about 13 years isn't being held responsible? It's not like at 12, he's too young to be charged or something.
 
A legal expert weighs in on the case (about juveniles and the law...what's up next for the accused):

http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_157e6102-c22b-11e2-8d94-0019bb2963f4.html
If the judge sustains the petition filed by Yook for Isaiah to become a ward of the court, the judge will consider what to do with the boy.

“It’s like sentencing,” Rummell said. “There is not a punishment component. It’s what is in the best interest of the juvenile – what is most likely to allow the juvenile to rehabilitate.”

Rummell said the science involving the development of juveniles is a fascinating field.

“If you have kids, you know this. Teenagers’ and juveniles’ frontal lobe haven’t developed until their early 20s. The frontal lobe controls impetuous behavior, impulsive behavior, the ability to evaluate risks and to truly appreciate the consequences of actions. Many times, juveniles do things without really fully understanding the extent of their actions or resulting consequences. I would argue, this makes them less culpable for the crimes they commit.”

Such thinking was justified in Supreme Court decisions in 2005, 2010 and last year, Rummell said.

<snipped>

Another common misconception centers on juveniles&#8217; attitudes while in the courtroom.

&#8220;There is a fundamental failure to comprehend their action, what death means, how final it is,&#8221; Rummell said. &#8220;A lot of times juveniles have a very flat persona. That is often interpreted as a lack of remorse, empathy for the crime they&#8217;ve committed. In fact, it&#8217;s often an inability to comprehend what&#8217;s going on. They shut down as a coping mechanism. Those types of reactions are typical of juveniles.&#8221;

I'd agree - I think shutting down is also a response used by some some adults in traumatic situations.

(Thanks for the begging/crying smilie, Elainera!)
 
He wrote several books and papers but some of what I read was socialization or the behaviors learned from environment. Parents who yell tend to produce kids who yell at their kids. It is definitely a different way of looking at mental illness some people really disagreed with.

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I need to figure out what I can/can't share.. or rather should or should'nt.

:sigh:Since as we know, Im completely biased. That, and knowing the P/B relationship history. It's a tough spot to be in because im torn between what my logic tells me, and being supportive to P..no matter what she believes...

I would suggest you contact a mod with what you'd like to share and ask if you can.
Hope to hear more from you.
 
I need to figure out what I can/can't share.. or rather should or should'nt.

:sigh:Since as we know, Im completely biased. That, and knowing the P/B relationship history. It's a tough spot to be in because im torn between what my logic tells me, and being supportive to P..no matter what she believes...

You are a good friend, dinaslala. :)
 
This is a sad case to hear about. I don't live far from there and I can tell you it is a small town. I don't know where they are having court for him. I would love to follow this.
 
I need to figure out what I can/can't share.. or rather should or should'nt.

:sigh:Since as we know, Im completely biased. That, and knowing the P/B relationship history. It's a tough spot to be in because im torn between what my logic tells me, and being supportive to P..no matter what she believes...

You are in such a hard and unfair position. Priscilla certainly needs and deserves love & support right now but providing her with that doesn't mean that you have to say only the things that she wants to hear (I don't mean you should go behind her back and spill all here). Sometimes hearing the hard truth from someone that you know loves you no matter what is what it takes to move to a healthier state. P needs to know that even if her son is guilty that doesn't mean that she has to turn her back on him. Continuing to love I and seek help for him doesn't diminish her love for L or make her grief any less valid.
 
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