GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

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Guess I will go ahead and stick my neck out here, I have reasonable doubt that IF killed his sister. I have not seen or heard enough evidence. LE / FBI say so is not enough for me. There are too many unknowns. JMO

I have heard and read lots of disinformation and wild speculation, here, there, everywhere, such is the state of human nature. JMO
 
We've not seen nor heard much, and I don't believe we've heard anything from the FBI. Last we heard from the Sheriff's Dept is the arrest. It's out of the news now and if the court doesn't stay public, there's probably alot we'll never know. ~shrug~
 
Guess I will go ahead and stick my neck out here, I have reasonable doubt that IF killed his sister. I have not seen or heard enough evidence. LE / FBI say so is not enough for me. There are too many unknowns. JMO

I have heard and read lots of disinformation and wild speculation, here, there, everywhere, such is the state of human nature. JMO

You haven't seen or heard ENOUGH evidence because LE hasn't released ANY evidence. :moo:
 
We've not seen nor heard much, and I don't believe we've heard anything from the FBI. Last we heard from the Sheriff's Dept is the arrest. It's out of the news now and if the court doesn't stay public, there's probably alot we'll never know. ~shrug~

Was it reported that the press were not to be allowed in the courtroom or just cameras and recording?
 
It's not 100% conclusive though and it's something experts disagree on and if you have one point of view you can find a lot of articles one way, and vice versa. Hence the always infamous battle of experts in court when it comes to mental illness.
Providing links to support your particular POV doesn't make it 100 percent the fact. It's something to consider but, there is always the other side. There are many conflicting views when it come to mental illness and environment vs genetics, and conflicting expert views on what should even be considered a true mental illness.
To say "Oh THIS mental illness is most likely from environmental factors, but THIS one is most likely from genetics" would be incorrect and simplistic.
You used depression and anxiety as two examples of mental illness that can be brought on by environment. Possibly true, but there have been studies to show these can also be genetic. Another thing, not all depression and anxiety is mental illness. You see? Many Many variables. And frankly it takes many many sessions with a trained professional to weed through and diagnose someone properly. Something that I don't think has been done in this case.......yet.

There isn't even agreement on personality disorders vs mental illness:

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/health/mental-illness-or-just-personality-traits#page1

This is a subject, depending on your experience, politics, and background could be debated forever.

Yeah, there are many variables. Because even with certain genetic factors, a person may not acquire a mental illness and even with certain environmental factors, a person might not.

It most definitely is not known exactly why a person acquires a specific mental illness when they do, while another in a similar situation with a similar genetic background or personal history, doesn't.

But it is absolutely false to state we don't know whether environment or genetics cause certain conditions in certain people.

PTSD is a mental illness. People do not get that without being exposed to trauma. Thus, using deductive reasoning, it is clear that PTSD is caused by the environment.

People who were sexually abused as children show exponentially higher rates of mental disorders such as depression, anxiety, personality disorders, suicidal ideation, and sexual dysfunction, than people in the general population. Thus, using deductive reasoning, we can determine that the environmental factor of sexual abuse caused the mental illness, at least in most cases of people with mental issues who were abused as children.

In regard to the statement that it is doubtful that children can be diagnosed with (or have) mental illness, wow, that's quite untrue. I'm sure the millions of parents dealing with serious mental disorders involving their children, would be happy if you were correct. My work has me dealing with the mental health field and children, quite frequently. Children are diagnosed and exhibit mental problems all the time. Children with mental illness are placed in locked facilities on a regular basis.

Here's one such case: [video=youtube;35gcBL1ZwY4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35gcBL1ZwY4[/video]
 
Yeah, there are many variables. Because even with certain genetic factors, a person may not acquire a mental illness and even with certain environmental factors, a person might not.

It most definitely is not known exactly why a person acquires a specific mental illness when they do, while another in a similar situation with a similar genetic background or personal history, doesn't.

But it is absolutely false to state we don't know whether environment or genetics cause certain conditions in certain people.

PTSD is a mental illness. People do not get that without being exposed to trauma. Thus, using deductive reasoning, it is clear that PTSD is caused by the environment.

People who were sexually abused as children show exponentially higher rates of mental disorders such as depression, anxiety, personality disorders, suicidal ideation, and sexual dysfunction, than people in the general population. Thus, using deductive reasoning, we can determine that the environmental factor of sexual abuse caused the mental illness, at least in most cases of people with mental issues who were abused as children.

In regard to the statement that it is doubtful that children can be diagnosed with (or have) mental illness, wow, that's quite untrue. I'm sure the millions of parents dealing with serious mental disorders involving their children, would be happy if you were correct. My work has me dealing with the mental health field and children, quite frequently. Children are diagnosed and exhibit mental problems all the time. Children with mental illness are placed in locked facilities on a regular basis.

Here's one such case: Born Schizophrenic - Jani's Next Chapter [1/5] - YouTube

I agree with everything you wrote with one exception...i believe your sentence should read, "people that were sexually abused as children AND not believed, protected and who didn't receive treatment have.....


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Bumping this up. Salem is a Moderator. :seeya:

Stop now. That's enough. Everyone had their say and I removed it all. Conversation is OVER. Move on.

And remember - we don't tell others how to post, nor do we respond to such posts. If there is a problem, alert the post and the mods will look at it.

Salem

I would also like to add that we each have an IGNORE LIST.
If you find yourself getting angry at EVERY single thing a certain member posts... use the ignore list.
It is in your User CP, under settings and options, right below "edit signature."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/usercp.php


Now can we PLEASE remember what this is about to begin with? :please:

leila2.jpg
 
Bumping this up. Salem is a Moderator. :seeya:

I would also like to add that we each have an IGNORE LIST.
If you find yourself getting angry at EVERY single thing a certain member posts... use the ignore list.
It is in your User CP, under settings and options, right below "edit signature."

<snipped for space>

Now can we PLEASE remember what this is about to begin with? :please: <snipped for space>

You have so much good to say...I only wish you (and others who might be tempted) would resist the urge to capitalize and boldface your posts. Don't mind me; I'm probably just especially tired, today. Just don't like to 'read' shouting. Makes me feel like I'm in elementary school again (and that was a loooong time ago). :eek:

ETA: I'm sorry--hope it doesn't seem like I'm singling you out, here. There are several wonderful mods here who do this as well. As a person who's dealt with depression and PTSD (since we were on that topic, however briefly :eek:) I still have to scroll past posts that are printed too large, boldfaced, in red ink, what have you--no matter who posts them. (It's probably just me...think 'children of alcholics' scenario and maybe you'll understand my weird, cringing reaction to this.)
 
You have so much good to say...I only wish you (and others who might be tempted) would resist the urge to capitalize and boldface your posts. Don't mind me; I'm probably just especially tired, today. Just don't like to 'read' shouting. Makes me feel like I'm in elementary school again (and that was a loooong time ago). :eek:

ETA: I'm sorry--hope it doesn't seem like I'm singling you out, here. There are several wonderful mods here who do this as well. As a person who's dealt with depression and PTSD (since we were on that topic, however briefly :eek:) I still have to scroll past posts that are printed too large, boldfaced, in red ink, what have you--no matter who posts them. (It's probably just me...think 'children of alcholics' scenario and maybe you'll understand my weird, cringing reaction to this.)

Ahhhh elementary school... Those were the good old days... Finger painting and eating paste ... I loved that paste:)


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Ahhhh elementary school... Those were the good old days... Finger painting and eating paste ... I loved that paste:)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol! Well obviously some of us have much better memories than others.

I shoulda tried the paste. ;D
 
You have so much good to say...I only wish you (and others who might be tempted) would resist the urge to capitalize and boldface your posts. Don't mind me; I'm probably just especially tired, today. Just don't like to 'read' shouting. Makes me feel like I'm in elementary school again (and that was a loooong time ago). :eek:

ETA: I'm sorry--hope it doesn't seem like I'm singling you out, here. There are several wonderful mods here who do this as well. As a person who's dealt with depression and PTSD (since we were on that topic, however briefly :eek:) I still have to scroll past posts that are printed too large, boldfaced, in red ink, what have you--no matter who posts them. (It's probably just me...think 'children of alcholics' scenario and maybe you'll understand my weird, cringing reaction to this.)

It's not shouting... it's emphasizing and making it more noticeable.
I believe a lot of people simply missed Salem's post so I made mine bigger so it wouldn't be missed.
I believe that is also why the mods do it. When someone is just skimming the thread, they will notice it.

I do not want this thread to get shut down because of the constant bickering.
I also don't want people to get a time out, because they simply missed Salem's post.

I have changed the format of my posts multiple times to please people...
Unfortunately I can't please everyone. Someone always has an issue with the way I do it. :sigh:
 
It's not shouting... it's emphasizing and making it more noticeable.
I believe a lot of people simply missed Salem's post so I made mine bigger so it wouldn't be missed.
I believe that is also why the mods do it. When someone is just skimming the thread, they will notice it.

I do not want this thread to get shut down because of the constant bickering.
I also don't want people to get a time out, because they simply missed Salem's post.

I have changed the format of my posts multiple times to please people...
Unfortunately I can't please everyone. Someone always has an issue with the way I do it. :sigh:

I think you're pretty fabulous, I did miss Salems post as I was skimming... I want to formally thank you:) because yours I did notice.


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It's not shouting... it's emphasizing and making it more noticeable.
I believe a lot of people simply missed Salem's post so I made mine bigger so it wouldn't be missed.
I believe that is also why the mods do it. When someone is just skimming the thread, they will notice it.

I do not want this thread to get shut down because of the constant bickering.
I also don't want people to get a time out, because they simply missed Salem's post.

I have changed the format of my posts multiple times to please people...
Unfortunately I can't please everyone. Someone always has an issue with the way I do it. :sigh:

I think your posts are also pretty fabulous, regardless. You can't please everyone, true. (And this post was kind on the eyes as well...thanks.) It's a personal problem. (I'm not epileptic, but am also bothered by the occasional flashing profile pics online.) I'm just stuck in 'over-startle'...but can't expect the world to want to accommodate that issue. Sorry I brought it up. :eek:
 
I think you're pretty fabulous, I did miss Salems post as I was skimming... I want to formally thank you:) because yours I did notice.


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oh puleaseeee/// :seeya: just kidding :floorlaugh:
Reminders are always a good thing.
 
Spent weekend with P..told her about thread..she said to thank you all for not being hateful, and a bigger thanks for all the thoughtful words some of you had for her..11hr drive ahead of me..more later.
 
IF's lawyer is using John Kennedy and Associates out of Sacramento for the investigation, according to his twitter. On May 18th they were going over the scene
and the investigator's fb page has a couple of articles on the case, if anyone was interested.
 
Her brother called Leila’s father and girlfriend who were attending a Little League baseball game at the time to tell them he saw a man hitting his sister and that he scared the stranger from the house.

snipped

When Leila’s father and girlfriend arrived at the house, followed shortly thereafter by the local police, Leila was found still bleeding from 21 stab wounds.

http://johnkennedyinvestigations.wordpress.com/2013/05/14/interesting-new-case/

That's the first I've seen that about IF seeing the intruder hitting Leila.

I had also wondered when it was discovered Leila was injured, and who made that discovery. That says it was BF and CW when they got to the house.

Interesting, since this information is coming from the defense team investigator.
 
Her brother called Leila’s father and girlfriend who were attending a Little League baseball game at the time to tell them he saw a man hitting his sister and that he scared the stranger from the house.

snipped

When Leila’s father and girlfriend arrived at the house, followed shortly thereafter by the local police, Leila was found still bleeding from 21 stab wounds.

http://johnkennedyinvestigations.wordpress.com/2013/05/14/interesting-new-case/

That's the first I've seen that about IF seeing the intruder hitting Leila.

I had also wondered when it was discovered Leila was injured, and who made that discovery. That says it was BF and CW when they got to the house.

Interesting, since this information is coming from the defense team investigator.

Her brother called Leila’s father and girlfriend who were attending a Little League baseball game at the time to tell them he saw a man hitting his sister and that he scared the stranger from the house.

When Leila’s father and girlfriend arrived at the house, followed shortly thereafter by the local police, Leila was found still bleeding from 21 stab wounds.

bbm, That is weird to me. ?
 
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