GUILTY CA - Madyson Middleton, 8, Santa Cruz, 26 July 2015 - #3 *Arrest*

[Lilibet]

If it helps, I understood your OP perfectly. There was nothing unclear about it.

BBM

As I said in my original post, I was not making excuses!

I was not saying that HE wouldn't know it's cruel. What I was pointing out, is that some cultures would not view certain things as cruelty...and perhaps his mom would not have viewed that as a warning sign. If you don't think it's cruelty, there is no reason to find it troubling. (And that's just a possibility. I'm not suggesting it's really what happened.) Having spent a lot of time in the Philippines, I could see a parent thinking nothing of many actions against an animal, that would cause major red flags to you or I.

Anyway, I'm just making a suggestion about cultural differences. I felt like some insinuation about the mom not doing anything to stop this were being made, especially after the dog story. I feel like there is a big temptation to jump on the parents and blame them. But he was living in a supportive, loving, and accepting group of people. He was being fed positivity by his community. He was not a discarded kid who had no one to listen to him or understand him. I actually think he's old enough to be squarely blamed for his actions. I personally do think some cultural differences might have impeded the ability to see warning signs, but that's JMO. I'm moving on from the animal suggestion, because it's taken way differently than I meant (Or I just worded poorly to imply something I didn't mean.) It's really not all that relevant anyway, since we know so little about the dog situation.

 

[blue22]

Let us not forget the culture of manliness that lauds the hunting and killing of endangered species. I believe those trophy hunters also need to be looked at for other assaults/murders.

Animal cruelty is, indeed, closely related to violence to humans.

Yes, I agree completely.

I hope no one interpreted my post as taking animal cruelty lightly. It sickens and terrifies me.

 

[blue22]

I'm from the Deep South and I've seen lots of hunters excessively hit/kick/shame their dogs for not listening or being successful in retrieving when they were being trained to hunt etc. As I've always thought it was wrong- more than necessary- I still don't think it's the type of abuse that is often discovered with serial killers. I think abuse of animals by serial killers is usually a more torturous twisted type. The hitting and kicking that you speak of is a different kind of abuse -- I THINK. I believe the killers slowly torture animals and are obsessed with slow deaths- setting things on fire and such. Most are obsessed with the slow death of the animal- from the histories I've read, anyway.

You may be right. I honestly don't know much about serial killers. Since we don't know how AJ harmed the dog, it's really hard to tell what happened. This might be something that comes out it court. If he actually tortured an animal....ugh. My brain hurts from all the darkness inside him.

 

[justwannahelp]

If it helps, I understood your OP perfectly. There was nothing unclear about it.

BBM

I understood blue22 too, for what it's worth.

 

[swedie]

There were some warning signs about Gonzalez' behavior, including the alleged abuse of his own dog about three years ago.

There were some warning signs....hmm. So was his mother kept in the dark about AG abusing their pet dog? For the past 19 years RF lived in the US and she was not aware there were laws pertaining to animal cruelty? I am speculating a big fuss was made over AJ abusing his dog (as it made MSM), and being as he was only twelve at the time, someone with common sense (LE or an adult perhaps?) would have alerted his mother to the abuse no doubt.

Sorry but if my country of origin and culture dictates that it's ok to abuse animals/pets but then I move to a different country with different values and laws, I best get cracking and learn the laws of the land. If someone comes to me and stresses my son was being abusive or cruel regardless of whether it was an animal or person, stalking behaviours or what have you, my ears would be perked and so would my kids. Just the mere fact someone vocalized his cruel behaviour and had concerns, should most certainly set off warning signals and red flags. All the commercials on TV about animal cruelty, neglect and abuse, and she never clued in?! After 19 years, if I had uncertainty about something this troubling, I would find the answers PDQ to clarify the societal norm for the country I chose to reside in. I need to point out the obvious here in this article also; RF learnt the US has sexual harassment laws and possibly felony assault with a deadly weapon and misdemeanor battery in a relationship. She also knew how to use resources such as homeless services and food stamps. I'm not trying to pick on AG's mother, but she is obviously no dummy IYKWIM. IMO she missed all the warning flags or chose to miss them for whatever reason. And because of whatever her excuses are, a precious little girl was brutally tortured and murdered by her son.

As I asked in a previous post "was AG not born and raised in the US?" I asked for the obvious reason....yes he was, and growing up in the US he would have learnt it is not ok, it's against the law to abuse animals. In one culture if men and LE may believe it's acceptable to beat, rape and stone women, doesn't mean it's ok to do the same in another country. When you leave your country and come into another, one must learn the laws of that country and abide by them. Ingornance in no excuse for breaking the law period. As the saying goes, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". ALL MOO.

When Factor was in her 20s, she met a man from Santa Cruz or Santa Clara county while living in her native Philippines, Jovich said. He brought her to Live Oak, but they broke up in 1994 because she caught him cheating, said Jovich. Factor fought her rival and was convicted of misdemeanor fighting in a public place, according to Santa Cruz County court records.

A.J. was born at Sutter Maternity and Surgery Center in Santa Cruz as Adrian Jere Gonzalez, according to his birth certificate obtained by the Sentinel.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_28566114/teens-turbulent-family-life-and-death-santa-cruz

 

[Elena]

Very well said swedie! Just because someone is aware about the rules, doesn't always mean they will abide / care.

Some people just cannot and or doesn't want to change, they believe what they want to believe, and listen to what they what to listen. No matter where they go or move, they believe 'it's just an animal'.

Just my opinion

 

[human]

We have plenty of animal cruelty laws but people still leave their dogs chained up outside all day and night. We see dogs abandoned. The shelters are overflowing.

People in other countries would be sickened by the killing of cows for food.

I am guessing whatver he did had to be noteworthy.

 

[blue22]

There were some warning signs about Gonzalez' behavior, including the alleged abuse of his own dog about three years ago.

There were some warning signs....hmm. So was his mother kept in the dark about AG abusing their pet dog? For the past 19 years RF lived in the US and she was not aware there were laws pertaining to animal cruelty? I am speculating a big fuss was made over AJ abusing his dog (as it made MSM), and being as he was only twelve at the time, someone with common sense (LE or an adult perhaps?) would have alerted his mother to the abuse no doubt.

Sorry but if my country of origin and culture dictates that it's ok to abuse animals/pets but then I move to a different country with different values and laws, I best get cracking and learn the laws of the land. If someone comes to me and stresses my son was being abusive or cruel regardless of whether it was an animal or person, stalking behaviors or what have you, my ears would be perked and so would my kids. Just the mere fact someone vocalized his cruel behaviour and had concerns, should most certainly set off warning signals and red flags. All the commercials on TV about animal cruelty, neglect and abuse, and she never clued in?! After 19 years, if I had uncertainty about something this troubling, I would find the answers PDQ to clarify the societal norm for the country I chose to reside in. I need to point out the obvious here in this article also; RF learnt the US has sexual harassment laws and possibly felony assault with a deadly weapon and misdemeanor battery in a relationship. She also knew how to use resources such as homeless services and food stamps. I'm not trying to pick on AG's mother, but she is obviously no dummy IYKWIM. IMO she missed all the warning flags or chose to miss them for whatever reason. And because of whatever her excuses are, a precious little girl was brutally tortured and murdered by her son.

As I asked in a previous post "was AG not born and raised in the US?" I asked for the obvious reason....yes he was, and growing up in the US he would have learnt it is not ok, it's against the law to abuse animals. In one culture if men and LE may believe it's acceptable to beat, rape and stone women, doesn't mean it's ok to do the same in another country. When you leave your country and come into another, one must learn the laws of that country and abide by them. Ingornance in no excuse for breaking the law period. As the saying goes, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". ALL MOO.

When Factor was in her 20s, she met a man from Santa Cruz or Santa Clara county while living in her native Philippines, Jovich said. He brought her to Live Oak, but they broke up in 1994 because she caught him cheating, said Jovich. Factor fought her rival and was convicted of misdemeanor fighting in a public place, according to Santa Cruz County court records.

A.J. was born at Sutter Maternity and Surgery Center in Santa Cruz as Adrian Jere Gonzalez, according to his birth certificate obtained by the Sentinel.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_28566114/teens-turbulent-family-life-and-death-santa-cruz

Well, we all know that when their are laws...everyone automatically accepts them as correct and fact. And when one culture has accepted something, all cultures just accept that into their own.

Would we even need websleuths if that was the case?

<modsnip> I DID NOT SAY HE WOULDN'T KNOW IT WAS WRONG. I said that his mother COULD perhaps, have not seen why people were (if that's how it played out) taking it so much more seriously than herself. Just because there are laws surrounding animal abuse, does mean someone moves here and says..."Oh, in America if you do this to a dog it's tied to being violent to humans. My son is clearly in danger of hurting someone, because in America that's what they believe, and I believe that 100%, because we live here and I believe everything in America. " I AM NOT SAYING AJ DID NOT KNOW IT WAS WRONG. I AM NOT SAYING SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE KNOWN IT WAS A RED FLAG. I'M NOT EXCUSING BEHAVIOR OR JUSTIFYING IT. I AM ONLY (POSSIBLY) EXPLAINING HOW SOMEONE COULD HAVE IGNORED SUCH A HUGE WARNING SIGN AT THE TIME. She probably looked at her son and said, "not my son. He wouldn't hurt people." Am I saying that is okay and she should have done that? NO. I am saying that's what SHE COULD HAVE DONE.

<modsnip>

 

[Lilibet]

OT Mild rant--It has become increasingly difficult to have a reasonable discussion on various threads. Being argumentative seems to be a trend. I don't understand why the OP elicited such strong responses when the meaning and intent were very clear, as stated below for the umpteenth time. Some take offense and choose to make a huge issue about things that aren't even IN a post, which becomes extremely frustrating to the original poster. We are all entitled to our opinions, but when we respond to a post, it would be less adversarial and frustrating if we could read carefully and consider our words before reacting and making an issue out of something that isn't there. We are all on the same side here!
eace:

BBM

Well, we all know that when their are laws...everyone automatically accepts them as correct and fact. And when one culture has accepted something, all cultures just accept that into their own.

Would we even need websleuths if that was the case?

<modsnip> I DID NOT SAY HE WOULDN'T KNOW IT WAS WRONG. I said that his mother COULD perhaps, have not seen why people were (if that's how it played out) taking it so much more seriously than herself. Just because there are laws surrounding animal abuse, does mean someone moves here and says..."Oh, in America if you do this to a dog it's tied to being violent to humans. My son is clearly in danger of hurting someone, because in America that's what they believe, and I believe that 100%, because we live here and I believe everything in America. " I AM NOT SAYING AJ DID NOT KNOW IT WAS WRONG. I AM NOT SAYING SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE KNOWN IT WAS A RED FLAG. I'M NOT EXCUSING BEHAVIOR OR JUSTIFYING IT. I AM ONLY (POSSIBLY) EXPLAINING HOW SOMEONE COULD HAVE IGNORED SUCH A HUGE WARNING SIGN AT THE TIME. She probably looked at her son and said, "not my son. He wouldn't hurt people." Am I saying that is okay and she should have done that? NO. I am saying that's what SHE COULD HAVE DONE.

<modsnip>

 

[Nore]

Im not too good with names as Im new to the website but wasn't there a teen named Austin Sigg who did something similar to a little girl named Jessica as well? The fact that there are multiple cases is just sickening.

-------------
Hi ELC, yes. Jessica Ridgeway. He is serving LWOP in Colorado. :welcome5:

 

[travelbug]

Well, we all know that when their are laws...everyone automatically accepts them as correct and fact. And when one culture has accepted something, all cultures just accept that into their own.

Would we even need websleuths if that was the case?

<modsnip> I DID NOT SAY HE WOULDN'T KNOW IT WAS WRONG. I said that his mother COULD perhaps, have not seen why people were (if that's how it played out) taking it so much more seriously than herself. Just because there are laws surrounding animal abuse, does mean someone moves here and says..."Oh, in America if you do this to a dog it's tied to being violent to humans. My son is clearly in danger of hurting someone, because in America that's what they believe, and I believe that 100%, because we live here and I believe everything in America. " I AM NOT SAYING AJ DID NOT KNOW IT WAS WRONG. I AM NOT SAYING SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE KNOWN IT WAS A RED FLAG. I'M NOT EXCUSING BEHAVIOR OR JUSTIFYING IT. I AM ONLY (POSSIBLY) EXPLAINING HOW SOMEONE COULD HAVE IGNORED SUCH A HUGE WARNING SIGN AT THE TIME. She probably looked at her son and said, "not my son. He wouldn't hurt people." Am I saying that is okay and she should have done that? NO. I am saying that's what SHE COULD HAVE DONE.

<modsnip>

You make a valid point and not just regarding this case, but many cases. The fact is that the mother was arrested for fighting when she was younger. That indicates to me she had been brought up in a culture where fighting is viewed as the solution to a problem. It is not that different from the households where physical and verbal abuse is the norm and the children grow up to mimic the actions of their parents. What we instantly recognize as wrong and harmful is not necessarily the same way another person has been indoctrinated to view it. Yes, there are laws and all citizens of our Country should acknowledging and follow them. But, we all know that is not always the case. I have no reason to believe that AG was raised by parents who didn't want the best for their son, but the day to day things that we view as unacceptable may have seemed the norm for them. Also, the environment around him appears to be based upon individuality, acceptance and nurturing. There may have been those who saw the warning signs, but hoped through music, his yo-yo participation, etc. that he would outgrow whatever "phase" he was in. Obviously, that wasn't the case - but we have too little information to place the blame squarely upon any particular source. The reality is that he slipped through the cracks and a precious little angel paid the ultimate price. jmho

 

[ninij9]

Hi guys, holy crap, I've been away for a few weeks. I just binge read all three threads. I'm on tapatalk so pardon that I can't find what I'm about to ask:
I was horrified in thread 2 regarding an item that a reporter from the Sentinal tweeted on his twitter feed. I also cannot find it now ( I'm still looking, damn my phone), anyway he said that the coroner stated Mady wasn't strangled. But that she died of a combination of "positional asphyxiation" and stab wounds to the neck. The positional asphyxiation was due to the manner of how he forced her into a trash can!!!!!
Could this mean she died slowly suffocating in the bin? I cannot bear this. I've been reading everyones posts, and besides someone posting that link in thread 2 no one seemed to discuss this. So now i think I'm reading it wrong. Anyone remember this post? I'm going nuts trying to find this. TIA.
God bless this child.

Edited to add: I found article but can't link on my phone. It says that the positional asphyxiation was due to how she was wedged into the recycle bin and stab wounds. Supposedly this is on her death certificate. Article from Sentinal dated August 13.
Could this mean she was placed in the bin while she was still alive? [emoji20]
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[travelbug]

Hi guys, holy crap, I've been away for a few weeks. I just binge read all three threads. I'm on tapatalk so pardon that I can't find what I'm about to ask:
I was horrified in thread 2 regarding an item that a reporter from the Sentinal tweeted on his twitter feed. I also cannot find it now ( I'm still looking, damn my phone), anyway he said that the coroner stated Mady wasn't strangled. But that she died of a combination of "positional asphyxiation" and stab wounds to the neck. The positional asphyxiation was due to the manner of how he forced her into a trash can!!!!!
Could this mean she died slowly suffocating in the bin? I cannot bear this. I've been reading everyones posts, and besides someone posting that link in thread 2 no one seemed to discuss this. So now i think I'm reading it wrong. Anyone remember this post? I'm going nuts trying to find this. TIA.
God bless this child.

Edited to add: I found article but can't link on my phone. It says that the positional asphyxiation was due to how she was wedged into the recycle bin and stab wounds. Supposedly this is on her death certificate. Article from Sentinal dated August 13.
Could this mean she was placed in the bin while she was still alive? [emoji20]
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

There was a brief discussion regarding this finding several pages back. The consensus was that may very well be what happened. The thought was so heinous, particularly because he is alleged to have returned to the bin a couple of times during the search, that we tabled the discussion until the trial when more facts will be known. jmho

 

[ninij9]

There was a brief discussion regarding this finding several pages back. The consensus was that may very well be what happened. The thought was so heinous, particularly because he is alleged to have returned to the bin a couple of times during the search, that we tabled the discussion until the trial when more facts will be known. jmho

Thanks travelbug. It brings me comfort knowing someone else caught that besides me. If it happened this way it would add a whole new level of horror to this tragedy.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Lilibet]

Hi guys, holy crap, I've been away for a few weeks. I just binge read all three threads. I'm on tapatalk so pardon that I can't find what I'm about to ask:
I was horrified in thread 2 regarding an item that a reporter from the Sentinal tweeted on his twitter feed. I also cannot find it now ( I'm still looking, damn my phone), anyway he said that the coroner stated Mady wasn't strangled. But that she died of a combination of "positional asphyxiation" and stab wounds to the neck. The positional asphyxiation was due to the manner of how he forced her into a trash can!!!!!
Could this mean she died slowly suffocating in the bin? I cannot bear this. I've been reading everyones posts, and besides someone posting that link in thread 2 no one seemed to discuss this. So now i think I'm reading it wrong. Anyone remember this post? I'm going nuts trying to find this. TIA.
God bless this child.

Edited to add: I found article but can't link on my phone. It says that the positional asphyxiation was due to how she was wedged into the recycle bin and stab wounds. Supposedly this is on her death certificate. Article from Sentinal dated August 13.
Could this mean she was placed in the bin while she was still alive? [emoji20]
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Yes, we've discussed this during the past few days on this thread #3. I don't think the actual autopsy report has been posted here, so it's hard to tell if the wording in the article is the reporter's or if it's actually from the autopsy report. The article makes it sound as if she's alive in the bin, but I can't imagine that she was conscious at that point if she had been stabbed in the neck. At least, I don't want to think so.

 

[ninij9]

Yes, we've discussed this during the past few days on this thread #3. I don't think the actual autopsy report has been posted here, so it's hard to tell if the wording in the article is the reporter's or if it's actually from the autopsy report. The article makes it sound as if she's alive in the bin, but I can't imagine that she was conscious at that point if she had been stabbed in the neck. At least, I don't want to think so.

Wow, lilbet I'm going to pray that she had moved on to a better, kinder plane by then. I cannot abide thoughts of her suffering yet another indignity of being semiconscious while family and neighbors scoured the complex for her. Or that this very sick young man would get satisfaction even knowing such a detail. I hope her mom doesn't read that article.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[swedie]

OT Mild rant--It has become increasingly difficult to have a reasonable discussion on various threads. Being argumentative seems to be a trend. I don't understand why the OP elicited such strong responses when the meaning and intent were very clear, as stated below for the umpteenth time. Some take offense and choose to make a huge issue about things that aren't even IN a post, which becomes extremely frustrating to the original poster. We are all entitled to our opinions, but when we respond to a post, it would be less adversarial and frustrating if we could read carefully and consider our words before reacting and making an issue out of something that isn't there. We are all on the same side here!
eace:

BBM

Absolutely. As you can see my post was not quoting anyone. I was merely stating MOO and how I view this situation and I do not believe ignorance of the law is a reasonable excuse to poopoo away someone who has shown signs of mental illness; abusive, stalking, threats etc. I won't be surprised when AG's case finally goes to trial/more information comes out, there will be many tell tale signs he had more than a few bizarre or weird incidences on his rap sheet. IMO many times when children go "off the rails" it's because of their upbringing. Yes there are those who are just a bad seed from conception, but I bet we will find out AG is like he is moreso because of his upbringing. The warning signs were ignored, denied, poopooed away or help was denied somewhere along the line. Again MOO.

 

[Lilibet]

OT--I rest my case. eace:

 

[swedie]

I wish reporters would be exact when writing up these articles. The way it's worded, it sounds as if AG wedged her into a garbage can, then stabbed her in the neck and then took her body to the dumpster? Did he bring her down in the garbage can and lift cardboard to place place her body under? Did he bring the garbage can back up to the apartment? Maybe he was seen on video surveillance removing her from the garbage can to put her in the dumpster. And what's with this? by another person?? Sheesh.

I wonder at what age RF started to leave AG home alone at night? IMO under 14 is too young for children to be left alone during the nights. Some are not disciplined enough to see to it that they go to bed at a decent hour, that they only watch appropriate TV, etc. And then there are safety concerns such as; would they be smart enough not open the door to strangers, not to leave the apartment late at night, or what would they do if a fire broke out in their apartment as a few examples. :notgood: IMHO. Has it been mentioned if AG has other siblings?

Madyson was “wedged inside a garbage can and stabbed in the neck by another person,” according to Middleton’s death certificate. Sheriff’s Lt. Kelly Kent said Madyson was not strangled, but died from positional asphyxiation because of the way her body was placed in the recycling bin near her home.

Neighbors said Reggie Factor, Gonzalez’ mother, often worked nights and left Gonzalez alone in the apartment.

Police and prosecutors said Gonzalez lured Madyson to his family’s apartment, raped and attacked her, then brought her downstairs and stuffed her under cardboard in the bin.

Police and prosecutors base their murder case against Gonzalez on witness statements, surveillance footage and evidence from Gonzalez’ apartment.

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ge...f-santa-cruz-was-asphyxiated-stabbed-to-death

 

[ninij9]

^^^^^ Thanks Swedie, that's the article that has upset me so much. I couldn't link from my phone. I really hope this is a case of sloppy writing.

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