GUILTY CA - Manuel Ortega & others for gang rape of 15yo girl, Richmond, 2009

[EmMomma]

Snipped from the article above...
"but also worried counselors by trying too hard to please the school's bad boys."

This REALLY rubs me the wrong way. I don't give a flying fig WHAT kind of boys this girl tried to "please", SHE IS AN INNOCENT VICTIM of a horrific, disgusting attack.

That mindless woman playing the race card was bad enough. I'm so tired of the victim being blamed, of everything being blamed other than the perps.

I hope every one of these monsters is punished, I hope that they go through h*ll in prison. They are not animals. Animals would never behave in such a disgusting manner.

 

[Searchfortruth]

There is NOTHING our justice system can do to these perps that would be adequate payback for what they have done to this girl, who will live with this for the rest of her life. I guess the most I can hope for is that they get the same as they gave in prison.

 

[songline]

They said they did a "sweep of the campus" after the party. Not much of a sweep imo. One attendee also said there was a group of uninvited boys/men loitering outside the dance and admin and security were made aware of them. But she also said they didn't question them,ask for ID or otherwise investigate this group during the evening.

I know JBean...Often times what they say does not hold much water. Sweep how? when they were told that bigger boys were loitering and they did nothing :waitasec:
2 guards would have worked - not what was done. sweep means nothing. This is a horrific case, that did not have to be if LE did it the right way.
I do not trust LE in that entire area. and they say we have 10% unemployment....they need to hire more for the police force. So that BS excuses can not even come into the picture.

 

[songline]

There is NOTHING our justice system can do to these perps that would be adequate payback for what they have done to this girl, who will live with this for the rest of her life. I guess the most I can hope for is that they get the same as they gave in prison.

IMO the perpes should never see the light of day again, I do not care if they are 15 or 21 years of age. They are evil.

 

[songline]

Yes, Ironic since it occurred in Richmond, where the majority population is black!!! She's as bad as the family of the guy who shot the 4 cops in Oakland, defending him and also crying racism:razz:, e.g. not my poor innocent nephew who was arrested on a whim! (my words)

I am disgusted with people who use the race card; especially when they are doing something wrong, and then claim they are being apprehended due to race :waitasec:
Their race is no license to do wrong. :furious:

 

[believe09]

Snipped from the article above...
"but also worried counselors by trying too hard to please the school's bad boys."

This REALLY rubs me the wrong way. I don't give a flying fig WHAT kind of boys this girl tried to "please", SHE IS AN INNOCENT VICTIM of a horrific, disgusting attack.

That mindless woman playing the race card was bad enough. I'm so tired of the victim being blamed, of everything being blamed other than the perps.

I hope every one of these monsters is punished, I hope that they go through h*ll in prison. They are not animals. Animals would never behave in such a disgusting manner.

And thus the blame the victim game begins....FWIW, stop right now. Reporters, school spokespeople and the like. Don't do it. Please do not start reporting how she brought this on herself....

 

[Garland]

And thus the blame the victim game begins....FWIW, stop right now. Reporters, school spokespeople and the like. Don't do it. Please do not start reporting how she brought this on herself....

Exactly. Also, I don't think that EmMomma is exactly blaming the victim. I, too, don't give a damn about whatever she was drinking, where or who she was hanging out with, etc., or not. What happened to her was more serious than that, & she is an innocent victim here, & that doesn't give them an excuse to do so. For that matter, I hope that those involved get locked up for a long, long time! And then they'll see what it's like to be raped. And shame on those that laughed & did nothing about it! I would've at least dialed 911 for the police about this. I can only hope that those that laughed & joked about it won't ever be put in the same situation that she did.

I can't believe what I just heard: the families of the suspects are defending these creeps!
they haven't shown the story on the news yet (abc7 s.f.) but I'm burning up already. What is wrong with people? :furious:

Actually I am editing this to say that there is a segment on a video posted previously that shows relatives denying that their child took part in this. They are denying that it even happened almost. Makes me so mad. What fairyland are they living in?
http://www.ktvu.com/video/21467972/index.html

And we wonder why kids like them become unruly & out of control doing heinous things & becoming a danger to society. Don't parents these days ever raise their children right & teach them right from wrong anymore? Whatever happened to holding them accountable?

Idiots. Just...idiots. I hope they don't ever breed again.:furious::banghead:

 

[sniperacer]

Snipped from the article above...
"but (the victim) also worried counselors by trying too hard to please the school's bad boys."

This REALLY rubs me the wrong way. I don't give a flying fig WHAT kind of boys this girl tried to "please", SHE IS AN INNOCENT VICTIM of a horrific, disgusting attack.

Personally, I would be very upset if my children hung out with the "wrong crowd" and/or went into areas they do not belong. But again, that is just me as a parent, based upon my experience growing up near LA gangs and violence.

But this is certainly not a lesson she deserves, because of her parents failure..

 

[believe09]

Exactly. Also, I don't think that EmMomma is exactly blaming the victim. I, too, don't give a damn about whatever she was drinking, where or who she was hanging out with, etc., or not. What happened to her was more serious than that, & she is an innocent victim here, & that doesn't give them an excuse to do so. For that matter, I hope that those involved get locked up for a long, long time! And then they'll see what it's like to be raped. And shame on those that laughed & did nothing about it! I would've at least dialed 911 for the police about this. I can only hope that those that laughed & joked about it won't ever be put in the same situation that she did.

Respectfully snipped-you are absolutely right, I do not believe Em was blaming the victim. I was calling out to the universe in the event that any of the reporters etc are reading here :blushing:-I am praying that they do not opt to take this route with this child. Rape is almost uniquely a crime where it is considered fair game to take shots at the victim and imply she was responsible for being raped....JMO.

 

[Garland]

Respectfully snipped-you are absolutely right, I do not believe Em was blaming the victim. I was calling out to the universe in the event that any of the reporters etc are reading here :blushing:-I am praying that they do not opt to take this route with this child. Rape is almost uniquely a crime where it is considered fair game to take shots at the victim and imply she was responsible for being raped....JMO.

Yeah. I very much agree with you. That's what also makes me sick. Reporters, media, etc. always trying to do whatever they can to blame innocent victims of such crimes. And doing them all for a quick buck. Just like in cases like the Victoria Lindsay where she was being beat up by a bunch of girls.

Society has just gone to hell in a handbasket.

 

[EmMomma]

I 100% WAS NOT blaming this little girl. Quite the opposite, it makes me SICK.
FWIW, her parents may not have even known that she was drawn to those types of boys.
By all accounts, she attended church, was a good student, etc.
So, so, so sad.
I'm praying for this little girl, her family...that they can heal.

 

[Columbo]

Personally, I would be very upset if my children hung out with the "wrong crowd" and/or went into areas they do not belong. But again, that is just me as a parent, based upon my experience growing up near LA gangs and violence.

But this is certainly not a lesson she deserves, because of her parents failure..

There must have been a "disconnect" somewhere. If the counselors saw that she was naively trying to please the wrong type of boy, they should have told the parents (?) . Who knows. No matter what, she is not guilty, she did NOT deserve any of this.

I don't think the counselor who said that the girl may have been trying to please the wrong crowd sometimes was trying to blame her, I bet she just didn't realize what impact her words might have. Of course, this information can and probably will be used against the poor girl in court. That makes me angry.

 

[Columbo]

Yes I did read that this morning, and I was furious. An area known to be problematic, they called this inevitable. :doh:

Inevitable and they did not assign a guard specifically for that area? that should have been assigned 24/7/365 - especially knowing there will be a party on that night, a couple of guards should have been placed near by - somebody should be sued.
I think her family is saying we need to focus on what we can do that is positive, and that is commendable at this difficult moment...But I hope they are not going to humbly walk away....This Town owes them big.
I am still banging my head at the on lookers....:sick:

You are so right. It's been a problem area of the school forever, apparently. Then when they said they were having lights installed and it would be accomplished "by April" :doh: ..But now I think they are actually speeding up the installation. DUH !!!

It's frightening that the myspace page of Cory Smith, the 15 year old who led her to the group of drinkers in that area, shows people posting angry, nasty, defensive statements regarding the "snitches". I hope it's a small minority with this sick attitude. But it's scary.

 

[PeteyGirl]

It is NOT blaming the victim to ask "what in the hell were you doing THERE with those people in the first place???"

A person SHOULD be able to walk through a crowd of rapists without being raped, or down an alley and not get beat up and mugged.

But there IS a shred of responsibility for putting YOURSELF in the line of fire.

I am speaking AS a victim of violence (domestic) who is hidden from her perp. There is NO HOPE for people like me unless we accept that OUR behavior has a relationship to the violence we experienced. Our behavior is not to BLAME for our injuries. Merely our proximity to the violent person. The power in accepting this "responsibility" is that we can get AWAY and STAY AWAY, keep ourselves safe with our own smarts.

It is a very delicate distinction for a victim of violence to separate our his/her "responsibility" and NO WHERE in there lies BLAME for the violence itself. That is entirely the perp's fault. But we got ourselves CLOSE to the perp, and in my case, I stayed around for more. My decision, entirely. I have no hope if I see myself as entirely victimized, because I want to do something in the FUTURE to prevent such a circumstance again. And that solution is seeing that I placed myself in danger. Though I deserved nothing of the abuse that happened, not one bit, and am not to blame, I stayed and took it for seven years. How to undo that? Take responsibility for MY part. Staying. Being there in the first place . It is freedom and power for the victim to accept his/her part, not BLAME.

 

[JBean]

It is NOT blaming the victim to ask "what in the hell were you doing THERE with those people in the first place???"

A person SHOULD be able to walk through a crowd of rapists without being raped, or down an alley and not get beat up and mugged.

But there IS a shred of responsibility for putting YOURSELF in the line of fire.

I am speaking AS a victim of violence (domestic) who is hidden from her perp. There is NO HOPE for people like me unless we accept that OUR behavior has a relationship to the violence we experienced. Our behavior is not to BLAME for our injuries. Merely our proximity to the violent person. The power in accepting this "responsibility" is that we can get AWAY and STAY AWAY, keep ourselves safe with our own smarts.

It is a very delicate distinction for a victim of violence to separate our his/her "responsibility" and NO WHERE in there lies BLAME for the violence itself. That is entirely the perp's fault. But we got ourselves CLOSE to the perp, and in my case, I stayed around for more. My decision, entirely. I have no hope if I see myself as entirely victimized, because I want to do something in the FUTURE to prevent such a circumstance again. And that solution is seeing that I placed myself in danger. Though I deserved nothing of the abuse that happened, not one bit, and am not to blame, I stayed and took it for seven years. How to undo that? Take responsibility for MY part. Staying. Being there in the first place . It is freedom and power for the victim to accept his/her part, not BLAME.

I totally agree and I understand what you are saying. I posted something almost exactly the same in another thread recently and it went over like a lead balloon. So I just want you to know i get it and I agree.

 

[ziggy]

Me too. People tell you it's dangerous to hang around a certain crowd or in certain areas then it's probably true. I heard from my Contracts professor who is a judge that he's recently been hearing expert testimony about how the judment capabilities of young people is formed much later than we thought - like about 24 years old.

Kids don't listen and there will ALWAYS be those "humans" who have nothing but a depraved heart so while TRUE, no one deserves that treatment ever, it's also true that bad guys will exist and it's best to stay away from them and lower your risk of getting hurt. Sad but true, and a very, very tragic lesson for her to learn.

 

[PeteyGirl]

I totally agree and I understand what you are saying. I posted something almost exactly the same in another thread recently and it went over like a lead balloon. So I just want you to know i get it and I agree.

It's a very fine distinction, but once you've made the distinction in your own mind, the gulf between "blaming the victim" and taking appropriate responsibility for putting yourself in the line of fire is HUGE and obvious.

To me, it disempowers the victim to remain purely a victim without any behavior on his/her own part in the victimization.

I think some people get a secondary gain out of victimhood, as if that gives a special status, and absolves them of any wrongdoing. It's not ABOUT "wrongdoing" on the part of the victim. Just bad choices, that can be chosen differently in the future. Mostly the "bad choices" are made in ignorance and fear and denial . . . but they are no more "to blame" for the abuse for the bad choices. That's the rub in my mind.

 

[gxm]

Yes. It's my job to teach my grandson that hot is ouch and not to touch the stove. And if he does by accident, it's not his fault. It's mine.

This young girl sounds like she was very naive. Naivete is not against the law. Gang rape is. And, trust me, I bet she has learned that lesson in spades. As a matter of fact, let's hope it's a lesson she can eventually overcome.

 

[jjenny]

Yes. It's my job to teach my grandson that hot is ouch and not to touch the stove. And if he does by accident, it's not his fault. It's mine.

This young girl sounds like she was very naive. Naivete is not against the law. Gang rape is. And, trust me, I bet she has learned that lesson in spades. As a matter of fact, let's hope it's a lesson she can eventually overcome.

Nobody is saying that anyone had a right to rape her. But a young female alone drinking at night with a bunch of young males is not a good idea, any way you look at it. And I am still not sure where her father was. The story went he was going to pick her up. When she didn't show up, one would think the father would have been looking for her, considering this allegedly went on for several hours.

 

[gxm]

Nobody is saying that anyone had a right to rape her. But a young female alone drinking at night with a bunch of young males is not a good idea, any way you look at it. And I am still not sure where her father was. The story went he was going to pick her up. When she didn't show up, one would think the father would have been looking for her?

All I'm saying is no one deserves to learn that lesson the way this poor girl did. No one.

Whether or not anyone thinks she made a wise choice, the person who didn't realize that not all boys are nice and respectful towards women should never have to discover the truth through two plus hours of gang rape. As I said, naivete is not illegal. Gang rape is. And it is not something we should assume all young men are capable of. We should assume that they have the decency to behave like human beings and not animals.