CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #1

[CARIIS]

FB lists it as 18 hours ago. So if it was 18 hours from now, that'd be 2:30a.m. last night?

TY so not ok it started at what 11? SO three hours in not ok imo- heck if that is what your thinking whatever - but to post it FB is............

A compelling report:

People were living there here is a tenants words:

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-news/watch/new-details-regarding-the-oakland-warehouse-824132675961

As more comes out-- how on earth can "officials" be clueless that people are in the building?? I would think there would be mattresses --how does an inspector come out, and not "know" the law was being broken?

From what we are seeing, how could some inspector not see a tinder box. Christmas lights on dry stuff. It seems as if the place was visited during the day.

At night and there are a 100 people going in , and one hears music- a box turned on a stero. Its obserd. People in the area see people come and go and the "officials" can not make it stop?

I am really having a hard time grasping how "follow-up
inspections were required. I do not know how laws about this stuff read, but it common sense.

There are YT videos of parties. Sounds like the place was "known". Do we know any other folks that give some warehouse a "name"??

Ghost ship now certainly has different notions huh.

With the images that came out its obvious it is NOT a warehouse- that is just common sense.

Some folks are off to prison.

 

[EstrellaEspectral]

I read somewhere that they have sent drones in and have seen tons of bodies, but it's unsafe for them to enter that part of the building.

I used to be involved in that kind of community but in another city when I was younger. I remember we used to get so upset by the fire marshals. Nowadays I am so thankful they were kicking us out of the warehouses. This is tragic and should NOT have happened.

 

[CARIIS]

The owner is probably on a flight to somewhere where there is no extradition.

 

[Lilibet]

Yeah, but the owner is responsible for keeping the building up to code, and who they rent to. I think the owner's daughter is in coverup mode.

Absolutely. The owner is responsible for keeping the building up to code for the purpose for which it is intended. Once it's rented to someone who checks out, it's on the renter IMO. This fire would not have happened and been so disastrous without the illegal activities of the renter. That's why I hold him primarily responsible. But there is certainly enough culpability to go around. And I agree that the daughter is in CYA mode.

 

[CARIIS]

I read somewhere that they have sent drones in and have seen tons of bodies, but it's unsafe for them to enter that part of the building.

I used to be involved in that kind of community but in another city when I was younger. I remember we used to get so upset by the fire marshals. Nowadays I am so thankful they were kicking us out of the warehouses. This is tragic and should NOT have happened.

I just dont get this.

What boxes turn on music?

100 people or so can't just poof themselves into a building.

One would see people coming and going, so how is a follow-up inspection needed?

Reports that people live there - again people need to leave where they live for groceries/whatever.

It is just bizarre that "officials " needed months to do nothing about it.

I would think a certified letter to the owner is all one needs.

Warehouses are not apartments/homes/condos. I get it if it was squatters - but this sounds like residents.

Blows my brain !!

 

[Lilibet]

The owner is probably on a flight to somewhere where there is no extradition.

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if the tenant skipped out. I think the owner will stay since she has many other properties. JMO

 

[Lilibet]

I just dont get this.

What boxes turn on music?

100 people or so can't just poof themselves into a building.

One would see people coming and going, so how is a follow-up inspection needed?

Reports that people live there - again people need to leave where they live for groceries/whatever.

It is just bizarre that "officials " needed months to do nothing about it.

I would think a certified letter to the owner is all one needs.

Warehouses are not apartments/homes/condos. I get it if it was squatters - but this sounds like residents.

Blows my brain !!

I know, but getting a tenant out is complicated and time consuming. The main renter has enough rights that he could drag this out for a long time. Even squatters sometimes have more rights than the owner. It's crazy, but that's how it is.

If I were assigning blame, I'd say the main renter Derick Ion gets 50% or more, the owner 30% or less and the city 20% or less. As much as we'd like the landlord and the city to police a building (and I'm not letting them off the hook here), that isn't more important than tenant responsibility. Ion is the real bad guy here IMO.

 

[EstrellaEspectral]

I just dont get this.

What boxes turn on music?

100 people or so can't just poof themselves into a building.

One would see people coming and going, so how is a follow-up inspection needed?

Reports that people live there - again people need to leave where they live for groceries/whatever.

It is just bizarre that "officials " needed months to do nothing about it.

I would think a certified letter to the owner is all one needs.

Warehouses are not apartments/homes/condos. I get it if it was squatters - but this sounds like residents.

Blows my brain !!

They are residents. This is popping up a lot with the people that attend art and music festivals like Burning Man, Symbiosis, etc. This sounds worse than some of the ones I've seen, as people who lived there said there was a maze of stuff (art) through the downstairs area.

 

[CARIIS]

I have been so focused on trying to find out what is and was happening - there has not been reflection. However as I am I am , feeling angry.

In my head it's like give me a break, if I bought a warehouse, I would know it illigal for me to just decide to turn it into a disco, a museum, a hostel, an art shopping center.

I would also suspect that folks that are buying warehouses, would have some insight into building codes. They do go somewhat together.

It is my understanding that there has never been any citations Pondering if the govt agency responsible for this stuff might also not have culpability as well.. That is what that agency is paid to address.

 

[CARIIS]

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if the tenant skipped out. I think the owner will stay since she has many other properties. JMO

Am confused. Your context of tenant means what. Oh gosh was the owner signing leases??

Up until you just made a distinction, I was solely thinking about "a" owner. Singular???.

 

[CARIIS]

Absolutely. The owner is responsible for keeping the building up to code for the purpose for which it is intended. Once it's rented to someone who checks out, it's on the renter IMO. This fire would not have happened and been so disastrous without the illegal activities of the renter. That's why I hold him primarily responsible. But there is certainly enough culpability to go around. And I agree that the daughter is in CYA mode.

Oh, then we might be talking about the guys record label - I get what you mean now. I read somewhere that his record company sponsored this. It was something like silk records or something,

I suppose they could also check out the owners income stream. Have we heard anything about what he did to earn money??

Wouldn't that be the pitts if this was their job - renting fire hazards out to human beings. IF it is that overt, he really might flee-

The MSNBC link I posted was the only time today I heard the term criminal.

 

[CARIIS]

Nine officially confirmed


http://live105.cbslocal.com/video/c...ge-timeline-of-deadly-oakland-warehouse-fire/

 

[Lilibet]

Am confused. Your context of tenant means what. Oh gosh was the owner signing leases??

Up until you just made a distinction, I was solely thinking about "a" owner. Singular???.

The owner of the warehouse and other properties is a woman named Ng. The tenant I refer to is Derick Ion who rented the warehouse and built all the stuff inside and rented space to artists, who apparently lived there. He is the one who has the parties. He is not the owner of the building. Does that help?

 

[katydid23]

The owner of the warehouse and other properties is a woman named Ng. The tenant I refer to is Derick Ion who rented the warehouse and built all the stuff inside and rented space to artists, who apparently lived there. He is the one who has the parties. He is not the owner of the building. Does that help?

Ion has a lot of culpability here. He rented out all of these spaces and knew how dangerous it was to be living there. He even had his young children sleeping there every night. That is horrible.

Growing up in Berkeley in the 60's, and then living in Venice Beach for 30 years, I smoked plenty of pot back in the day. I am not saying it is a horrible drug. But when someone is as stoned out as he seems to be in those videos, then it is just too far gone. I think he was using more than just weed. He seems to be out of his gourd.

And that creates totally irresponsible situations, imo.

The owner is culpable as well of course. Because just because you rent out your warehouse, you still need to check in now and then to see what is going on. You are legally responsible as well. Which will soon be painfully evident.

But I won't give a pass to the city because they have known for 10 years that this warehouse was being used for illegal purposes. They just dragged their feet, conveniently, imo.

 

[EstrellaEspectral]

Ion has a lot of culpability here. He rented out all of these spaces and knew how dangerous it was to be living there. He even had his young children sleeping there every night. That is horrible.

Growing up in Berkeley in the 60's, and then living in Venice Beach for 30 years, I smoked plenty of pot back in the day. I am not saying it is a horrible drug. But when someone is as stoned out as he seems to be in those videos, then it is just too far gone. I think he was using more than just weed. He seems to be out of his gourd.

And that creates totally irresponsible situations, imo.

The owner is culpable as well of course. Because just because you rent out your warehouse, you still need to check in now and then to see what is going on. You are legally responsible as well. Which will soon be painfully evident.

But I won't give a pass to the city because they have known for 10 years that this warehouse was being used for illegal purposes. They just dragged their feet, conveniently, imo.

Unfortunately I think it's worse than cannabis. From what I've gathered from his Facebook page, they have meth problems and the kids were just given back to them after being taken by CPS.

 

[kaen]

My sister in law was at the rave. We cannot find her. She's not answering her phone which is dead. The coroner said she's on the unaccounted list. Please
pray for us. I'm on the plane to Oakland. Her name is Jennifer Mendiola. My brother is flipping out.

You continue to be in my thoughts.

 

[CARIIS]

The owner of the warehouse and other properties is a woman named Ng. The tenant I refer to is Derick Ion who rented the warehouse and built all the stuff inside and rented space to artists, who apparently lived there. He is the one who has the parties. He is not the owner of the building. Does that help?

A LOT TY!

His real name is [FONT=&quot]Derick Alemany

[/FONT]http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12/03/facebook-post-from-leader-of-artist-collective-sparks-controversy/[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]Oh my goodness

Here are reviews

https://www.yelp.com/biz/satya-yuga-oakland?hrid=3unhHcOrhfNutGbOMxw2Sw

[FONT=&quot].......... Mack said he lived in the warehouse for five months at the end of 2014 and witnessed generator fires and artists using butane torches. Showers upstairs were heated with propane, he said.
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
.........man who said he lived in the warehouse for a few months said it was strewn with electrical wires that sometimes sparked. .... interior often smelled like burning wires and wood.

.... numerous wooden living spaces, and even camping trailers inside.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]... three weeks before Friday’s deadly fire, city building inspectors had launched an investigation into “illegal structures” built inside the converted warehouse dubbed the “Ghost Ship,” ....

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]............charred remains occupied by the art collective, which was not permitted for the living area, underground dance club and artists’ studios that firefighters found late Friday night.......

.... quirky, cluttered, wood-filled space — with no smoke alarms or sprinklers — seems to have trapped its inhabitants and visitors inside.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...........Darin Ranelletti, Oakland’s interim director of planning and building, .......... didn’t say why or explain whether they had tried later to return.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot].......... City Council member Noel Gallo told the Bay Area News Group on Saturday that nobody had answered the door when inspectors visited the building,

.................what was going on at the warehouse was an open secret and that the city had ample chances to shut it down before the fire.

...... been complaining about the warehouse for years, he said, but inspectors were slow to react.

..........been converted into an unpermitted living space — a recurring problem in the Bay Area’s white-hot (kind of a bad choice of words - moo) housing market.

...........Matt Hummel, who occasionally visited the warehouse, called the way up to the mezzanine “a pirate ship claptrap” that was “a really scary way to get up and down. It was like climbing a fort.”

There was a little-known staircase behind an area of the mezzanine used as a musical stage.......


......building had been “remodeled for residential,”

.......Ng, according to property records, bought the warehouse in 1997.

Ng went to court in late 2005 to evict a person from the building--tenant was paying $500 a month.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] owns 11 other Oakland properties, including an art gallery and retail building ..... at least two in San Francisco. .... her as a nice woman.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]She also owns a business called Kingmaker Marketing and Consulting.



http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/12/...last-month-into-buildings-interior-structure/


[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]



[/FONT]

 

[Hatfield]

Im too upset about the poor victims to think much about culpability yet.

But when it does come to that I agree that both the owner and the tenant who subleased out to others will be held accountable. So I agree there will be a percentage of blame on both of them and probably the city too for not enforcing proper building codes and building permits.

Its so sad I cant go there yet

 

[CARIIS]

Here is the info

[FONT=&amp]this guy Alex Frantz Ghassan posted a video, from inside -- an hour before the fire.[/FONT]

alexg[FONT=&amp]-director

It popped up at this link-- but when I tried to see it again (dark- was trying to count how many people I saw) I could not get it back.

It did say instagram/Twitter so if any of you skilled with these entities can get it and link it that would be great.

Good news tho is it did not seem all that crowded - it was very dark- in what I could make out I saw 5 people.

[/FONT]http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/12/03/many-anxiously-wait-for-updates-on-loved-ones-believed-to-be-at-the-party/

 

[EstrellaEspectral]

Here is the info

[FONT=&amp]this guy Alex Frantz Ghassan posted a video, from inside -- an hour before the fire.[/FONT]

alexg[FONT=&amp]-director

It popped up at this link-- but when I tried to see it again (dark- was trying to count how many people I saw) I could not get it back.

It did say instagram/Twitter so if any of you skilled with these entities can get it and link it that would be great.

Good news tho is it did not seem all that crowded - it was very dark- in what I could make out I saw 5 people.

[/FONT]http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/12/03/many-anxiously-wait-for-updates-on-loved-ones-believed-to-be-at-the-party/

Alex Ghassan is one of the people on the missing list.