CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

[BelleIsle]

I know it is difficult to grasp without having lived here, but there are many homeless people in Berkeley & Oakland, right now, who are working and homeless, and unable to find housing...for various reasons. The lottery list to rent or buy affordable housing is immense. That is only one reason. I am sure that some of the people who rented from this warehouse would gladly have rather lived in a safe environment. I have said enough on this subject in my last few posts, I think everyone knows my opinion on this.

 

[CARIIS]

If the 2003 Station Fire is anything to use as an example, both the owner and the person responsible for the "event" (in this case DA because of what he had going on) will be charged.

In February 2008, Providence television station WPRI-TV made an out-of-court settlement of $30 million as a result of the claim that their video journalist was said to be obstructing escape and not sufficiently helping people exit.[SUP][[/SUP]

Some may not want to
view

[video=youtube;9e_19dUezCQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e_19dUezCQ[/video]

I would not be the type to go back inside , but I would not be in the parking lot standing there.

In seeing this I could not help but how futile a scene like this must be for first responders

 

[al66pine]

as a creative woman in her 20s who goes to these types of shows often...i've been following this thread really closely. this situation is so incredibly nuanced and complicated. hi guys! :greetings:
i wanted to share something (with permission) that my electronic musician friend (in his 40s) wrote to me via text today:
i find it fascinating to hear insider points of views on all sides of the spectrum. hope it's ok to share!

elendast, Thank you for sharing this other point of view. Interesting, but respectfully disagreeing w part of it.

Snipping from ^ quote (w bbm, sbm, rbm): "....like blame will make an easy pathway towards basic safety in weirdo non-commercial spaces, galleries, warehouses, parties....people become scofflaws when the laws are too stupid, corrupt, expensive, when they don’t apply to realities."

IDK precisely what Oakland's fire, occupancy, & assembly codes would have required for Derrick & sub-tenants/lessees/ chums/artists/creative spirits/who-ev to lawfully sub-divide/create live-work spaces and to hold concerts/raves/mass assemblies/what-ev there, but seems imo, Derrick et al were scofflaws.

Seems imo, sprinkler system absence, sub-standard materials in unpermitted interior subdivisions, & other code violations allowed/caused/contributed to a relatively small point-of-origin-fire developing into an inferno which "applied to realities" of 36 deaths, as well as extensive property damage, etc.

Hoping Foxfire, other fire-fighters/first responders, ins. co ppl will post on this issue. JM2cts, could be wrong.

 

[BelleIsle]

Doesn't the bank ask for the inspections? If they bought it with cash, would there be inspections?

IDK about commercial buildings, but you can buy a house here "as is" and with "un-permitted" additions. Because it is very competitive some people waive an inspection, although if they are using a mortgage to buy they might not be allowed to do this (by the lender). You are almost expected to at least waive your "inspection contingency", which means that even if problems are found you should not be able to back out. HTH.

 

[BelleIsle]

BBM
If one is getting rid of anything, that is usable, donate it to a place in the community that aids the homeless and/or struggling.

Here we put it on the curb and it is gone within an hour. You can also list it on Freecycle.

 

[rsd1200]

My friend inherited a small home in the suburbs of Alameda, and she rented it out. She lives in Nevada. The tenants set up a hydroponic pot GROW inside her home. They did not live there at all. Just grew pot. The electric company noticed the huge electric bill and investigated. My friend had a large legal bill trying to fight the charges. They came after her instead of the tenants for some stupid reason. They used fake names for everything so ? She paid hefty fines but was never charged with crimes, thank goodness.

.
Nothing as bad as what happened to your friend but one of my kids decided to cut their bills down and room w/a friend and the friend's bf. I tried to gently explain that this was probably going to be a poor decision but, I know nothing. So the move was from a pretty decent apt. to an old single wide trailer in an older trailer park (but safe area). The friend and bf move in with five indoor cats, three indoor rabbits, and an indoor dog that was at least 90 pounds. Oh, and one litter box for all of the cats and bunnies. There was a lease signed too. After three months it was all my kid could take and options were discussed. Although things worked out, the person who took over my kid's spot on the lease (how that happened was a miracle), ended up losing their job, as did the other two and they all moved out and unbeknownst to my kid, they didn't go up and and do their part of the sign off to switch the water bill into their name. Pricey water bill arrived in the mail the other day. Friendship strained. Lesson learned. Don't room w/friends.

 

[CARIIS]

[video=youtube;ktEMLtBz55Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktEMLtBz55Y[/video]

 

[rsd1200]

Here we put it on the curb and it is gone within an hour. You can also list it on Freecycle.

.
That's what one of my relatives does who lives in an apt. complex. It's like you said, gone with in an hour. We're kinda rural and it wouldn't really work to well for us so we take things up to the local non-profit that helps with folks who need food and other stuff.

 

[CARIIS]

On December 9, 2003, brothers Jeffrey A. and Michael A. Derderian, the two owners of The Station nightclub, and Daniel M. Biechele, Great White's former road manager, were charged with 200 counts of involuntary manslaughter — two per death, because they were indicted under two separate theories of the crime: criminal-negligencemanslaughter (resulting from a legal act in which the accused ignores the risks to others and someone is killed) and misdemeanormanslaughter (resulting from a petty crime that causes a death). The three men pleaded not guilty to the charges.

The Derderians also were fined $1.07 million for failing to carryworkers' compensation insurance for their employees, four of whom died in the blaze.


For three years, I've wanted to be able to speak to the people that were affected by this tragedy, but I know that there's nothing that I can say or do that will undo what happened that night.
Since the fire, I have wanted to tell the victims and their families how truly sorry I am for what happened that night and the part that I had in it. I never wanted anyone to be hurt in any way. I never imagined that anyone ever would be.


I know how this tragedy has devastated me, but I can only begin to understand what the people who lost loved ones have endured. I don't know that I'll ever forgive myself for what happened that night, so I can't expect anybody else to.
I can only pray that they understand that I would do anything to undo what happened that night and give them back their loved ones.
I'm so sorry for what I have done, and I don't want to cause anyone any more pain.
I will never forget that night, and I will never forget the people that were hurt by it.
I am so sorry.[SUP][26]

Superior Court Judge Francis J. Darigan sentenced Biechele to 15 years in prison, with four to serve and 11 years suspended, plus three years' probation, for his role in the fire

Station's owners, Michael and Jeffrey Derderian, were scheduled to receive separate trials. However, on September 21, 2006, Superior Court Judge Francis J. Darigan announced that the brothers had changed their pleas from "not guilty" to "no contest,"thereby avoiding a trial.[SUP][28]

[/SUP] Michael Derderian received 15 years in prison, with four to serve and 11 years suspended, plus three years' probation—the same sentence as Biechele. Jeffrey Derderian received a 10-year suspended sentence, three years' probation, and 500 hours of community service.

As of September 2008, at least $115 million in settlement agreements had been paid, or offered, to the victims or their families by various defendants:

The 28 November 1942 Cocoanut Grove fire in Boston caused 492 deaths. The 23 April 1940 Rhythm Night Club Fire in Natchez, Mississippi, claimed the lives of approximately 209 persons. The 28 May 1977 Beverly Hills Supper Club fire in Southgate, Kentucky, claimed 165 lives. The 2 December 2016 Ghost Ship warehouse fire in Oakland, California claimed 36 lives. The Station fire's 100 deaths exceeded the death toll of 87 in the 25 March 1990 Happyland Fire in the Bronx, New York City. The deadliest single-building fire in United States history was the 30 December 1903 Iroquois Theatre fire in Chicago, with at least 602 deaths.

[/SUP]
Tentative Interim Amendments (TIAs) were issued for the national standard "Life Safety Code" (NFPA 101), in July 2003. The TIAs required automatic fire sprinklers in all nightclubs and similar locations with 100 or more occupants, plus additional crowd manager personnel, among other things. These TIAs were subsequently incorporated into the 2006 edition of NFPA 101, along with additional exit requirements for new nightclub occupancies.[SUP][42][/SUP] It is left for each state or local jurisdiction to legally enact and enforce the current code changes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire

 

[human]

elendast, Thank you for sharing this other point of view. Interesting, but respectfully disagreeing w part of it.

Snipping from ^ quote (w bbm, sbm, rbm): "....like blame will make an easy pathway towards basic safety in weirdo non-commercial spaces, galleries, warehouses, parties....people become scofflaws when the laws are too stupid, corrupt, expensive, when they don’t apply to realities."

IDK precisely what Oakland's fire, occupancy, & assembly codes would have required for Derrick & sub-tenants/lessees/ chums/artists/creative spirits/who-ev to lawfully sub-divide/create live-work spaces and to hold concerts/raves/mass assemblies/what-ev there, but seems imo, Derrick et al were scofflaws.

Seems imo, sprinkler system absence, sub-standard materials in unpermitted interior subdivisions, & other code violations allowed/caused/contributed to a relatively small point-of-origin-fire developing into an inferno which "applied to realities" of 36 deaths, as well as extensive property damage, etc.

Hoping Foxfire, other fire-fighters/first responders, ins. co ppl will post on this issue. JM2cts, could be wrong.

The proof is in the pudding. 36 people died.

 

[BelleIsle]

.
That's what one of my relatives does who lives in an apt. complex. It's like you said, gone with in an hour. We're kinda rural and it wouldn't really work to well for us so we take things up to the local non-profit that helps with folks who need food and other stuff.

It is very compassionate and generous of you to do that! I was unfamiliar with curbing nearly everything until moving here. In NYC we would find an odd table or some chairs, but here you can find the entire contents of someone's home on the curb, especially when people move out...I'm always glad when someone takes what we leave out & will put it to good use.

 

[CARIIS]

soso
Oh my, where would they clean up? put the sacrifice? sanitation? is that why they had cats everywhere? This is so disgusting!

and sad.............and now that we have learned at how much space is really out there, why not have the govt make em safe, and use them as low incoming housing.



They do low income housing, but this way you already have a building.

The MGM Grand fire killed 75

 

[killer Chaser]

It should be the law that any building more than one story has at least one fire escape ladder per room! http://www.fireescapesystems.com/resqladder.asp

 

[Hoosgirl]

Regarding victim compensation:

The California Victim Compensation Board today confirmed those affected by the Oakland fire can apply for help.

The Alameda District Attorney told NBC Bay Area on Tuesday that it has people actively assisting the fire victims with filing applications.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...lable-For-Oakland-Fire-Victims-405091585.html

 

[CARIIS]

ncident descriptions and summary statistics on fires causing at least 5 residential deaths and at least 3 non-residential or non-structure deaths.
This report contains overall statistics from NFPA's annual study of catastrophic multiple-death fires, defined as fires or explosions in homes or apartments that result in five or more fire-related deaths, or fires or explosions in all other structures and outside of structures, such as wildfires and vehicle fires that claim three or more lives. The data for this study is obtained by the NFPA from responding fire departments. The report includes patterns of deaths by type of property, time of day, and presence and effectiveness of automatic detection and suppression systems. The report also includes a detailed description of each fire.
[h=3]Report highlights[/h]

• 
  [*=left]Nine catastrophic multiple-death fires resulting in 42 fatalities occurred in the U.S. in 2015, the lowest number of catastrophic multiple death fires ever recorded in a year.
  [*=left]Four of the fires were in homes, resulting in 23 deaths, with four of the victims under age six.
  [*=left]Two of the fires were in non-home structures, and resulting in eight deaths, while three non-structure fires claimed 11 lives, including three firefighters.
  [*=left]The deadliest fire of the year killed seven children in one family when combustibles in the kitchen were ignited by a hot plate.
  [*=left]A review of fires over the past 10 years found that smoke alarms were missing or inoperable in more than two thirds of the catastrophic multiple-death fires for which smoke alarm details were reported.

[h=6]NIGHTCLUB FIRES[/h]Fires in assembly occupancies have shown to be some of the most deadly when the proper features, systems and construction materials were not present. Nightclubs, theaters and auditoriums differ from office buildings because they contain a large number of people in one main space.

• 
  [*=left]NFPA fact sheet on fires in nightclubs and other assembly occupancies.
  [*=left]The 10 deadliest nightclub fires in history.

[h=6]WAREHOUSE FIRES[/h]A fire at an Oakland, CA, warehouse killed at least 30 people on December 2, 2016. Warehouses present special challenges for fire protection because their contents and layouts are conducive to fire spread and present obstacles to manual fire suppression efforts. See NFPA's "Structure Fires in U.S. Warehouses" report.

http://www.nfpa.org/news-and-research/fire-statistics-and-reports/fire-statistics/fires-in-the-us/multiple-death-fires/catastrophic-multiple-death-fires

 

[CARIIS]

 

[CARIIS]

ssued: January 2016Warehouses are properties that are used for the storage of commodities. Warehouses present special challenges for fire protection because their contents and layouts are conducive to fire spread and present obstacles to manual fire suppression efforts. Using data from the National Fire Incident Reporting System and the NFPA Fire Experience Survey, we estimated annual fires and losses during 2009-2013.
[h=3]Report highlights[/h]

• 
  [*=left]U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated average of 1,210 fires in warehouse properties per year (excluding refrigerated or cold storage), which represents less than 1% of all structure fires.
  [*=left]These fires caused an annual average of $155 million in direct property damage, three civilian deaths, and 19 civilian injuries.
  [*=left]Fires that were intentionally set and fires caused by electrical distribution and lighting equipment were the leading causes of warehouse fires, each with 18% of the total.
  [*=left]Flammable and combustible liquids and gases, piping and filter were the item first ignited in 6% of fires, but these fires caused 31% of civilian injuries and 12% of direct property damage.
  [*=left]Approximately one-quarter of fires in warehouses were identified as confined or contained incidents (23%), while 14% were confined to the object of origin.

http://www.nfpa.org/news-and-resear...type/storage/structure-fires-in-us-warehouses​

 

[CARIIS]

same links

[h=1]Key dates in fire history[/h]http://www.nfpa.org/news-and-research/fire-statistics-and-reports/fire-statistics/key-dates-in-fire-history

 

[alsleuther]

I'm looking through these photos of the Ghost Ship when it appears to be newly decorated. It's astounding the amount of furnishings and decor in here! And this definitely does not look like items picked up off the side of the street. They were only there for 3 years. Derek must have been an avid collector and constantly moving in all of these items. It appears that he had a substantial amount of extra cash....all the musical instruments, rugs, and the huge 4 poster beds!

 

[kdg411]

If this article has been posted previously please disregard;

Timeline: Records Show City has Been Fighting Warehouse Owners for More than 15 Years Over Substandard Conditions at Multiple Properties

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/Timeline-Records-Show-City-
has-Been-Fighting-Warehouse-Owners-for-More-than-15-Years-Over-Substandard-Conditions-at-Multiple-Properties-405360935.html