CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

[Jax49]

The Oakland Fire: Delving Into What Happened, and Why​

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/08/us/the-oakland-fire-delving-into-what-happened-and-why.html?_r=0

Less than one week after a blaze ripped through a ramshackle warehouse known as the Ghost Ship, this shocked city is grappling with an array of questions about what precisely happened, many of them deeply troubling.

To try to answer them, The New York Times is deploying a team of journalists across Oakland as part of an investigative reporting effort.

 

[passionflower]

Did the NG's and DIA have a written lease?
I had a lease for a business and it stated so many things.
I was responsible for everything inside the area.
It stated it was only used for a salon/spa.
No one was to live there' or have activities etc.
The lease allowed an inspection by owner every year (real estate company) People lived in Florida that owned the building.
This is in PA so might not apply to Calif law.
Also is NG a citizen or not. That may protect them?

 

[Xara]

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered. Does anyone know if any of the victims were tenants, or were they all guests at the party?

 

[cvaldez1975]

Hell San Diego is where my mom and sister are and I loooove it there and would prefer there over sac but shared custody... sigh.

I agree with the other parts. I'm not defending that- but there are other areas of California that aren't as expensive to live in as the Bay Area. So Cal, in particular San Diego was much cheaper than up here. Also, like CValdez mentioned, Sacramento is much, much cheaper. We have nieces who live in Sacramento. One begged me to move up there! I refused because I hate Sacramento. I much prefer the Bay Area. It's a choice one makes one how they live. I didn't live beyond my means in North Oakland, and it took us 9 months to find, but the house we ultimately bought was a bank-owned foreclosure which allowed us to get our foot in the door in this housing market. It's still a fixer-upper, but it's liveable and it's at our own time and what we can afford. You don't have to live in a death-trap to find affordability in the Bay Area. For me- the big issue has always been crime and being broken into, even here. We now have a burglar alarm and a safe as well as our dog.

 

[cvaldez1975]

My staff is custodians and they have a union. But more because it's a gubment job. Most private sector janitors don't have a union.

I don't think think there are unions for nurse's aids, and janitors, and folks who just sit with the elderly in their home or in nursing homes. I could be wrong though, but I've never heard of one. I don't live in Naples, just a visitor, so I don't really have to worry about it. I just hate to see folks displaced b/c of greed.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I am in Ca cna start at minimum and can work up but I haven't known any that made 25. My husband's devil ex wife is an MA and makes 24 an hour by she works in a doc office cuz she likes the set hours. She may be able to make more at a hospital idk.

$25/ hr for a CNA is very inflated, IMO, due to the union. $25/ hr is about $50K/ year. CNAs in our area make about $10-15/ hr, and I can't imagine any hospital system paying $25/ hr, even with an aggressive union. That is more than associate degree RNs and LPN's starting wage.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

NBC paid for DIA's hotel in exchange for interview

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...day-NBC-paid-Ghost-Ship-operator-s-hotel.html

 

[mistivon]

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered. Does anyone know if any of the victims were tenants, or were they all guests at the party?

Sadly, they were tenants, guests and performers. And for NBC paying for Ions hotel? Shameless and disgusting even for the press. Makes me sick they paid for a nice place for him to sleep when his "babies" are sleeping on a cold slab

 

[cvaldez1975]

My so is a server here in Bay Area he makes 10 an hour the same minimum as everyone else.

O/t too but that is not even a dream here. $7.25 and has been for several years. A couple of our larger cities have increased the wages on their own but state law is $7.25 except for tipped employees, then it's $2.13.

 

[MsMarple]

Video of a DJ performanceat the Ghist Ship @ June ..... just look at ALL that electrical equipment!

https://youtu.be/d-Jma50bAMs

That's why I keep harping on the sound system being the culprit - or at least a contributing factor. Extension cords, power cords and strips and electrical outlets can only carry so much load before they overheat and potentially start burning. It may have been the fridge that went first - a witness said they saw flames behind it - but it also could have been an outlet. Heck, or even a cheap, light guage extension cord.

In the June 4 video you linked to, at 6:24 it appears that the sound dropped out. Many audio devices (but not all) have onboard circuit breakers in case of surge or overload. Given the age of the building and the fact that they also stole power from the store next door it's pretty clear the wiring was probably a mess. Our old house has some funky wiring too and while we were able to upgrade much of it we ended up installing a whole house surge protector just in case. And sprinklers, smoke alarms, a FA system and two extinguishers, lol.

That warehouse had none of those. I took a quick look at the codes and if I understand correctly, if the walls were made of one-hour fire resistant material they could squeeze by w/o sprinklers under certain circumstances. I doubt if that was the case at the GS though. 30 years since any inspections? Oy vey!

Anyway, Foxfire could probably explain it all better.

 

[passionflower]

Do we have any count of how many survived?
Maybe they will know some of the answers to our questions.

 

[passionflower]

Were any survivors admitted to hospital with burns or breathing problems?
Sorry if I missed this info.

 

[Magdalyn]

NBC paid for DIA's hotel in exchange for interview

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...day-NBC-paid-Ghost-Ship-operator-s-hotel.html

So they manipulated each other to get what they each wanted. NBC got the better end of that deal. Everything he said can and will be used against him in a court of law....

 

[Rallibella]

Doesn't the bank ask for the inspections? If they bought it with cash, would there be inspections?

My guess is at the time it sold last it was empty. So an inspection wouldn't have shown the issues that are the cause here.

 

[shadowraiths]

It stuns me clinically, it appears he truly believes he is not going to need representation? AND he is not delusional!

The disconnect is horrifying.

It makes the degree of impairment so acute, IMO

Mental impairment is pretty much a given. After all, the guy is an alleged meth addict.

 

[alucardsdream]

Were any survivors admitted to hospital with burns or breathing problems?
Sorry if I missed this info.

I think for the most part people either got out with relatively no injuries or they didn't get out at all. I remember someone talking about it in one of the early interviews but I can't recall which one.

 

[Jax49]

I think for the most part people either got out with relatively no injuries or they didn't get out at all. I remember someone talking about it in one of the early interviews but I can't recall which one.

I remember that statement during a press conference (from LE, IIRC). But, then I heard other comments.

One was about the residents escaping and being taken to hospital (that might have been MSM not official).

And, they keep showing a person in a rescue vehicle being wrapped in what looks to be gauge. It could be stock footage, but they didn't indicate so.

I haven't seen any updates on injured. Really not sure what the situation is.

 

[Spellbound]

That's why I keep harping on the sound system being the culprit - or at least a contributing factor. Extension cords, power cords and strips and electrical outlets can only carry so much load before they overheat and potentially start burning. It may have been the fridge that went first - a witness said they saw flames behind it - but it also could have been an outlet. Heck, or even a cheap, light guage extension cord.

In the June 4 video you linked to, at 6:24 it appears that the sound dropped out. Many audio devices (but not all) have onboard circuit breakers in case of surge or overload. Given the age of the building and the fact that they also stole power from the store next door it's pretty clear the wiring was probably a mess. Our old house has some funky wiring too and while we were able to upgrade much of it we ended up installing a whole house surge protector just in case. And sprinklers, smoke alarms, a FA system and two extinguishers, lol.

That warehouse had none of those. I took a quick look at the codes and if I understand correctly, if the walls were made of one-hour fire resistant material they could squeeze by w/o sprinklers under certain circumstances. I doubt if that was the case at the GS though. 30 years since any inspections? Oy vey!

Anyway, Foxfire could probably explain it all better.

Our old house is partially updated, but we want to get it ALL replaced. Lordy, DH harps on me for using any extension cords or an additional outlet. I agree, all that musical'electronic equipment, not mentioning all the lamps and other appliances in that place, could very well have contributed to this mass casualty. This blows my mind to no end.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I wonder if the refrigerator was a old model. Because new appliances have trip switches that don't allow certain electrical hazzards without it shutting down the fuse or the appliance itself to stop an electrical frenzy from taking place.

Idk

 

[Spellbound]

I wonder if the refrigerator was a old model. Because new appliances have trip switches that don't allow certain electrical hazzards without it shutting down the fuse or the appliance itself to stop an electrical frenzy from taking place.

Idk

I'd be willing to bet it wasn't new... and likely one of those old kind that are not self-defrosting.