CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

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Ian said:
One account from a neighbor (I will try and find the link and source (and they could be wrong)) said that there had been a small fire burning outside the Ghost Ship near one corner and they thought little of it, but about 5 minutes later the entire building was ablaze.
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IF the account of the neighbor who saw a small fire burning outside near one corner of the building is true, that could point to arson. JMO
 
Ha - I "redacted" identifying info - we are on a true crime website after all!!

Hello xxxxxxxxx

THANK YOU, very sweet, I really appreciate it.

Officer Johnna Watson
Public Information Officer
Office of the Chief of Police
Oakland Police Department
(510) 238-7230




From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2016 9:20 PM
To: OPD Media
Subject: Johnna-you have been amazing!



Give yourself a pat on the back. You managed a really difficult, fast moving and complicated event with grace. i just felt compelled to say this to you. Amazing job!!!
 
The worst in history

[video=youtube;spzAGnNwaUg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spzAGnNwaUg[/video]
 
rsd1200 said:
Around here, if you make around $50k per year, you can live pretty well. One thing though, I think a lot of the residents were able to escape. It was mostly the people who were there for the concert on the 2nd floor that night, who lost their lives. They hold events like that around here in all kinds of places too.
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You can live well on $50K a year where I live too. For that you can have a small home close to where you work and in a safe neighborhood, a Jeep (or equivalent decent vehicle), a vacation once a year (not luxury but fun), insurance, food, adequate health care, money to add to your retirement account, heat, etc. You can have a some hobbies, a pet, reasonable clothing and sports equipment and electronic equipment (maybe not all name brand or designer brand, and buying some stuff used when you can). You can have a reasonable entertainment budget but not extravagant. I consider that living pretty well.

I took a week long workshop at Arcosanti in Arizona in 2012. They don't like to call it a commune but I would describe it as an experimental community. The emphasis is on architecture and sustainable living rather than just art, though there is a lot of art and creative people there. I thought it was well-run and pretty safe. I'd love to take another workshop there. I meant to take one a year until I got the whole curriculum done but I haven't made it out there again yet. Maybe it would be a good place to visit to get ideas on how to run a creative community. I'm sure it's not perfect but it's been around for awhile and I don't think they've had any disasters (though they did have a fire in a field that burned up a lot of cars a long time ago, I don't think anyone was hurt!). They do have events there where the public is invited. The public can also eat there at the restaurant and go on tours. The food is good if you like health oriented food! The tours are cool. I'm so glad I went to the workshop, it's something I wanted to do after going on a tour in 2009.
 
Apologies if this was already linked.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/oakland-artists-fear-crackdown-ghost-ship-fire-44081810

The Ghost Ship is now gone. But there's The Salt Lick, the ominously named Deathtrap and other converted warehouses where artists are holding emergency meetings behind locked metal doors.

Oakland has long been hospitable to an underground art scene that flourished in its abandoned industrial warehouses and helped put this gritty city on the world's art map. But now its art and music underground is panicking and bracing for a crackdown.

Painters, musicians and struggling artists of all types came to live and work, to perform and dance late into the night and to be surrounded by creativity.

They tolerated the exposed wiring, spotty electricity and other dangers or inconveniences of often unregulated warehouses, as a trade-off for affordable housing and studio space in one of the country's priciest housing markets.
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http://www.ktvu.com/oakland-warehouse-fire/222529809-story

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) emailed KTVU on Thursday and said they would be sending a "Forensic Mapping Team" to the site on Friday. The team will create a diagram of the warehouse in order to determine the cause and origin of the fire.

The bureau will also hold a news conference to give an update on the fire from the scene, but the time of that update has not yet been determined.
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Ian said:
One account from a neighbor (I will try and find the link and source (and they could be wrong)) said that there had been a small fire burning outside the Ghost Ship near one corner and they thought little of it, but about 5 minutes later the entire building was ablaze.
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I read that as well Ian. Mentioned it some time back. The person stated it was a pile of rubbish burning behind the building.
 
Spellbound said:
I understand that it takes time for all the legalities of notices, contacts, etc. however, what struck me about the last complaint is that it also mentioned tenants in the warehouse ---- yet in the certified contact to the owner, she was not informed of that. I believe a landlord/owner is not allowed to enter rental properties without consent (correct me if I am wrong) ... in all the complaints about trash/graffiti, I see none that say the owner was ever informed about tenants. But the inspectors were aware via at least one complaint ---

I am somewhat less angry at the owner IF she was never informed of tenants, if she truly could not prove there were tenants, if the inspection reports never mentioned tenants.
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I'm not letting the owner off the hook. She had a duty to inspect her property. Just one visit inside would have shown her it was not being used as it was rented for and that it was clear people were living there/throwing parties. She's a known slum-lord. Both her and Derick are responsible for this horrible tragedy. Hope the warehouse is demolished.
 
Lilibet said:
IF the account of the neighbor who saw a small fire burning outside near one corner of the building is true, that could point to arson. JMO
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Could have also been a homeless person using a debris fire to warm up. Many of my artist friends lived in cold water flats in Boston when I lived there. There were also many wonderful parties. These were the most creative and spiritual souls I've ever met. Film makers, etc. One weekend several of the flat residents got together and built a shelter for the homeless who wandered nearby. It didn't last long. It was set ablaze to warm them. Many of the homeless in the area were alcoholic/drug abusers who weren't able to think long term. A lot suffered Korsakoff's. I haven't looked at the temps for the area to know if it was cold or if it ever gets cold but perhaps it was someone homeless cooking or using scrap for heat. Just a thought. I hate to think it could have been deliberate. Ugghhhh!
 
Gitana, my deepest sympathies to you, your brother, and to all of the loved ones of those who were lost. Such a terrible tragedy. I take some comfort in knowing that there were compassionate ws'ers who helped you in such a terrible time. I hope that the wonderful memories and love of those lost will help to bring peace with time. :rose:
 
So most of the people that lived there were on the first floor and made it out safely? I guess they were very familiar with how to navigate the obstacles and walkways to get to the exit.

The people upstairs visiting for the concert didn't stand a chance of getting out b/c it was dark and confusing to find your way to the stairs?
 
alsleuther said:
So most of the people that lived there were on the first floor and made it out safely? I guess they were very familiar with how to navigate the obstacles and walkways to get to the exit.

The people upstairs visiting for the concert didn't stand a chance of getting out b/c it was dark and confusing to find your way to the stairs?
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And because the building was engulfed in what? Seconds?
 
Even if the Owner, or the daughter, Eva, went to inspect the property, I read that Derek instructed the tenants to hide all of their belongings so it would not be evident that someone lived there and he probably had 24 hours notice b/f she came to pick up the rent. He could have told her that he was storing RVs, and Balinese antiques. If there was no electricity in there I'm imagining a single woman is not going to go crawling into RVs to look for evidence of tenants in the pitch black dark. It's tricky b/c California is a very tenant friendly state, and what is she going to accuse him of, with no evidence? I am pretty sure the lease b/t the owner and Derek didn't allow him to sublet the space or use it for residential use. He was the one violating the lease as well as breaking the law. Unfortunately he probably has little assets to pursue......
 
It wasn't like 40 degrees that night, so not freezing but Oakland is not "sunny California" it's usually average of 70-78 and damp on its warmest days.

Ray_of_hope said:
Could have also been a homeless person using a debris fire to warm up. Many of my artist friends lived in cold water flats in Boston when I lived there. There were also many wonderful parties. These were the most creative and spiritual souls I've ever met. Film makers, etc. One weekend several of the flat residents got together and built a shelter for the homeless who wandered nearby. It didn't last long. It was set ablaze to warm them. Many of the homeless in the area were alcoholic/drug abusers who weren't able to think long term. A lot suffered Korsakoff's. I haven't looked at the temps for the area to know if it was cold or if it ever gets cold but perhaps it was someone homeless cooking or using scrap for heat. Just a thought. I hate to think it could have been deliberate. Ugghhhh!
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People are not heartless. Officials know that there are bad living conditions but they pretend they do not know because what are the alternatives? The people would go where?

There are those spikes some communities have placed to keep the homeless from sleeping in a location.

Now that the risk is known for sure as to what can happen with substandard conditions, what will happen to all of these spaces?

I doubt if property owners want to spend the kind of money it would take to make a place safe. And if they do, they have to recoup their costs with higher rents.

I doubt if these warehouses would be used for other purposes, would they?
 
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-ghostship-oakland-warehouse-fire-20161209-story.html

Refrigerator ruled out as cause of Oakland fire that killed 36; no evidence of arson

Investigators have ruled out a faulty refrigerator as the cause of a fire that killed 36 people in an Oakland warehouse last week.

Earlier in the week, officials had said the refrigerator and other appliances were being examined as possible causes of the fire. But Jill Snyder, an ATF official, said Friday that electronics engineers had ruled out the refrigerator as a cause of the blaze.
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Please disregard if previously posted.
 
Raves and illegal concerts, underground venues, communal living is going to continue no matter what. The participants know they are going to these places that are 'illegal', and that they most times are not in the best shape or best neighborhoods. It is a choice. go or not go. It happens in every large city and many small ones, especially the artsy areas. They change addresses quickly and only post on certain pages so that they WON"T be found out by Law enforcement. Its tragic what happened, but especially the artists who lived there knew what they were doing. Many of them LOVE that lifestyle and choose it over conventional living. They will move on to another similar situation, given the choice. Its similar to the 'old' barn dances we had in small towns growing up. After football game parties, prom, whatever, someone just opened up their barn, Hay and all, and a big party took place. If that caught fire, it would have spread in seconds. This has gone on and will go on forever. I have a friend who was at this particular venue, lives in Oakland, and is part of the fire burning, juggling, artsy, spinning crowd. Luckily he wasn't there that night, but at ANOTHER venue, doing the exact same thing. This blaming the city for it just doesn't sit well with me. Sorry, MOO
 
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