CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #2

[CARIIS]

Why have they not been called in and questioned OR we hear that their attorney blocked them from talking?

Has anyone heard anything in any of these areas?

It seems like no one even knows where they are.

 

[human]

http://journal.burningman.org/2016/12/news/global-news/oakland-fire/

A long post from December 5th on the Burning Man Journal, including an exhaustive list of fundraisers, supply donation sites, housing and counseling resources etc. etc. etc. Very much exemplifies the gift economy ethos of Burning Man participants and the creative energies of the Bay area.

OT but having spent my high school and university years in Sacramento and San Francisco in the late 60s and into the 70s, the Bay area is a true Cultural and Artistic touchstone for me. I would not be the person and artist I am today without the influence of the Bay Area art and music scene. Oakland and SF have always been gritty and beautiful at the same time. That's a big part of the appeal, I think. In my very humble opinion it would be a loss for the world if that creative heart was gone.

Anyway, I pray that something good comes out of this awful tragedy. I recognize small mercies already, like the fact that Gitana's sister-in-law was found and identified and passed the way she did.

Blessings to all touched and affected by this tragedy.



Lots lots more at the link.

Many people who go to Burning Man are extremely wealthy. Maybe they can come up with ways to have affordable artist housing. They have the brains and means.

The ideas of fire extinguishers and exit signs are very naive. Making a public building fire safe is a big undetaking. Analyzing cavities, ways fire can spread, fire stop materials, fire doors. Yes, expensive. But how much is a life worth?

 

[human]

Not sure if this has been posted. 32 page documents of previous complaints at Ghost Ship warehouse.

http://www2.oaklandnet.com/oakca1/groups/ceda/documents/report/oak061791.pdf

All but one complaint seems to be outside ... trash and graffiti. No inspections of inside?

but this was very interesting:

Pg. 4, 11/13/16. Complaint:
a ton of garbage piling up on the property and spilling over onto the sidewalk. The property is a storage, but owner turned it into a recycle. The main building was remodeled for residential. (Paraphrased) Reinspection deadline 1/16/2017

Certified letter sent to owner, Ng, 11/21/16, nothing said about tenants!

There are all kinds of rules re getting notices from the govt. For instance, the letter has to be sent x amount of days from when the complaint is made, tThen the owner has so many dsys to respond. Then the govt says how many days to fix the issue. Etc etc etc.

Private property has a lot of rights and people throw fits about interference all of the time. If the owner is cooperating, then the city will work with the owner.

 

[CARIIS]

If we think about it its pretty amazing that the buildings next door did not catch fire.

 

[La Louve]

Many people who go to Burning Man are extremely wealthy. Maybe they can come up with ways to have affordable artist housing. They have the brains and means.

RSABBM That's a bit of a myth that the census numbers don't really bear out:



(source: https://blackrockcitycensus.wordpress.com/page/2/)

For a city of 70,000 to have 2.7 % with an income over $300k works out to less than 2,000 people.

If you read the comments in the article I linked then you saw that at least one architect is offering his services pro bono to help with plans for safe community workspaces for artists. His post was very knowledgeable about what is required and didn't strike me as naive at all.

 

[human]

The idea of injustice collector is good.

What do you say about people who want to continue to live the way they want inspite of the evidence that these buildings are dangerous?

They can make the decision for their ownselves, but what about the innocents who may perish who did not agree to unsafe conditions? What about fire fighters and first responders that have to come and deal with conflagration? Selfish is the way I see it. Entitled .

 

[human]

RSABBM That's a bit of a myth that the census numbers don't really bear out:

View attachment 105805

(source: https://blackrockcitycensus.wordpress.com/page/2/)

For a city of 70,000 to have 2.7 % with an income over $300k works out to less than 2,000 people.

If you read the comments in the article I linked then you saw that at least one architect is offering his services pro bono to help with plans for safe community workspaces for artists. His post was very knowledgeable about what is required and didn't strike me as naive at all.

What is that income chart from?

Yes, the architect had good ideas but there have been several posts that are very naive.

I know several millionaires who go to BurningbMan. Some who work at Google, for instance.

 

[bluesneakers]

What is that income chart from?

Yes, the architect had good ideas but there have been several posts that are very naive.

I know several millionaires who go to BurningbMan. Some who work at Google, for instance.

The people I know who go to Burning Man are all artists and far from what anyone would consider wealthy.

 

[La Louve]

What is that income chart from?

Yes, the architect had good ideas but there have been several posts that are very naive.

I know several millionaires who go to BurningbMan. Some who work at Google, for instance.

It's from the 2014 Burning Man Census. Sorry, I added the link later.

Yes I'm aware there are wealthy people that go to Burning Man. But they are not the "normal" Burner (an oxymoron if there ever was one, LOL). There are way more that are average working folk that save all year (and sometimes longer) to go be a part of the festival.

 

[human]

What is that income chart from?

Yes, the architect had good ideas but there have been several posts that are very naive.

I know several millionaires who go to BurningbMan. Some who work at Google, for instance.

Ok. I see you added the source. I rest my case. Participants have $$$$$$$$.

 

[bluesneakers]

Ok. I see you added the source. I rest my case. Participants have $$$$$$$$.

Nearly 50% of them make 50k or less annually.

 

[La Louve]

Nearly 50% of them make 50k or less annually.

And over 80% spend less than $2500 to be a part of the festival. For ten days. In the middle of one of the harshest deserts on the planet. Where they must bring in (and out) all the gear they need to survive. It's about as polar opposite from opulent as you can get.

 

[bluesneakers]

And over 80% spend less than $2500 to be a part of the festival. For ten days. In the middle of one of the harshest deserts on the planet. Where they must bring in (and out) all the gear they need to survive. It's about as polar opposite from opulent as you can get.

And it's run entirely on the barter system, right?

 

[human]

Nearly 50% of them make 50k or less annually.

Median is middle. So the median means that many make more than $75,000 a year. A beginning teacher in MN where I was frim makes $35,000 a year. So making $50,000 a year is darn good in my eyes.

And my comment was that there are many people in Burning Man who have the money and contacts to get something going on making safe places for artists.

As a former art teacher until art was eliminated as a frill in the schools, most people are too busy trying to survive to be interested in art and artist's lives.

I feel it will be up to people of money, interest, and drive to work on this issue

 

[human]

And over 80% spend less than $2500 to be a part of the festival. For ten days. In the middle of one of the harshest deserts on the planet. Where they must bring in (and out) all the gear they need to survive. It's about as polar opposite from opulent as you can get.

People have different viewpoints for sure. $2500 for a vacation for one person to me is a lot of money. That would be a wow! Vacation for a family with a couple of kids. My nephew brought his two kids and wife to Disneyworld for $3000 and our families were astounded at spending that kind of money although he can afford it.

 

[CARIIS]

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives investigating the scene discounted the refrigerator as the source, but said they were looking at a number of electrical appliances, circuits and wiring in the building.[SUP][1

Lawsuits against property owners have produced huge verdicts — and often years of efforts to recover the money. In some cases, criminal charges have been filed, with mixed results.

Some Bay Area lawyers said they already have been contacted to represent people in cases stemming from the fire.
Wrongful-death lawsuits could name the property owner and the man who leased the building and allegedly sublet it to others, lawyers said.

anycontractors,[/SUP][SUP]engineers[/SUP][SUP] and architects who worked on the site over the years; the city of Oakland; promoters of the musical event held the night of the fire and possibly even manufacturers of items inside the building that may have sparked or contributed to the blaze.

He tried a case against the owner of the apartment building where a deck, infested with dry rot, collapsed. One person was killed and more than a dozen injured. McCarthy said lawsuits recovered more than $12 million.


a criminal probe into the deck collapse was launched. San Francisco prosecutors charged the landlord with involuntary manslaughter.
A jury deadlocked on the felony charge, and the landlord instead was convicted of misdemeanor code violations.

“Lawyers have probably already gone on Zillow to look up the owner’s properties,

landlords have a legal duty “to act reasonably and can’t just turn a blind eye to what is going on with their property,”

You have a responsibility to know how your property is being used,

potential[/SUP][SUP] deep pocket would be the city of Oakland, which probably would assert governmental immunity.

Oakland city clerk said information about any work done on the burned warehouse might not be available for 10 days.

Manslaughter does not require malice or intent. It is “basically creating an inherently dangerous situation,


prosecutors would be “hard pressed” to prove a building owner had implied malice unless there was a history of similar problems causing harm.
Involuntary manslaughter charges are more likely

it is “very realistic” that someone will be charged with 36 counts of involuntary manslaughter
[/SUP]
Micah Allison wrote that the building was a “beautiful temple” that was “held together with love and blood.” The post was designed to get friends to donate money to the couple in order to help them pay the rent. In herAbout section, Allison refers to herself as the “Mother Superior” of the warehouse.

A week later, Allison posted that the water was off in their building and that she needed a friend to let them use their bathtub so she could bathe the couple’s three children.

Ion wrote on Facebook in May 2015 that he had been “unable to see the kids for one month as we have been working and looking for the right lawyer as well as fighting extreme depression and an overwhelming longing for our children

Ion says he’s from Los Angeles and that he’s been married to Allison since 2007. He puts his favorite quote as, “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.”

http://www.latimes.com/local/califor...205-story.html

http://heavy.com/news/2016/12/derick-ion-micah-allison-facebook-post-ghost-ship-fire/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_warehouse_fire

known as both Derick Almena and Derick Alemany[SUP]

[/SUP]

 

[CARIIS]

font bold not me!



Max Ohr - aka Warlord - claimed to have been just working the door at the Oakland warehouse where 36 died on Friday night
But DailyMail.com has learned he was actually the manager of the entire rave party and also the venue operator's right-hand man
Ohr's involvement is likely to be of interest to the criminal investigation into the blaze

Ohr spent time with Almena after the fire at the Marriott hotel where 'commune' leader moved after it happened


confirmed to DailyMail.com that Almena had left Ohr in charge of the venue on Friday.


'There was nothing out of the norm about us having an event at the warehouse.'


The heavily-tattoed Max Ohr claimed to be an artist but was nicknamed 'Warlord' in the warehouse commune. He had been seen selling objects at a fair

Marriot hotel in Oakland in the days after the disaster where Almena and other friends were staying.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-dead-revealed-right-hand-man-venue-boss.html

Read

Read

 

[La Louve]

And it's run entirely on the barter system, right?

Not quite, but close. It's actually a gift economy. Nothing is expected in exchange for whatever is gifted. The only things to spend money on are ice, coffee at the Center Camp Cafe, and having your RV's black/grey water tanks pumped. While I'm there I usually spend $20 on ice (about $10 for myself and $10 to pay it forward for the next person in line), and $60 to have the RV serviced. (ETA I don't know of any other festival where you can spend under $100 in ten days.) I've been gifted Guinesses in the Shamrock pub, deep fried snickers bars and grilled cheese sandwiches in deep playa, and seen movies at midnight at the Bijou Theater (complete with free milk duds). I've gifted bottles of Aardvark hot sauce to my neighbors, homemade pie and ice cream on Burn night, copious amounts of water, electricity for curling irons, tarot readings, labryinth walks, and much more.

ETA Want to add that all the proceeds from the three Camp Arctica ice sales locations go to the local schools, charities and community services. So I know if I pay the going price of $3 for a ten pound bag of ice that most of that is going to be gifted locally.

 

[La Louve]

People have different viewpoints for sure. $2500 for a vacation for one person to me is a lot of money. That would be a wow! Vacation for a family with a couple of kids. My nephew brought his two kids and wife to Disneyworld for $3000 and our families were astounded at spending that kind of money although he can afford it.

For sure it's perspective. But I'm curious, did that $3000 vacation (ETA and was it for ten days?) include hauling in all their own water? Did they pack out all their trash that they created? Were they spectators, or participants? Were they entertained, or where they part of the entertainment experience?

Burning Man is quite unique among arts festivals in that the participants create the festival themselves. It's hard to put a price on that.

ETA Here's the data on personal cost of attendance from the census report:


As you can see, over half of the 80%+ who spend less than $2500 to attend actually spend under $1000 to attend.

 

[Lilibet]

Not quite, but close. It's actually a gift economy. Nothing is expected in exchange for whatever is gifted. The only things to spend money on are ice, coffee at the Center Camp Cafe, and having your RV's black/grey water tanks pumped. While I'm there I usually spend $20 on ice (about $10 for myself and $10 to pay it forward for the next person in line), and $60 to have the RV serviced. I've been gifted Guinesses in the Shamrock pub, deep fried snickers bars and grilled cheese sandwiches in deep playa, and seen movies at midnight at the Bijou Theater (complete with free milk duds). I've gifted bottles of Aardvark hot sauce to my neighbors, homemade pie and ice cream on Burn night, copious amounts of water, electricity for curling irons, tarot readings, labryinth walks, and much more.

DIA's FB page is no longer available, but I read it extensively, and was surprised to read a stream of consciousness rant against Burning Man. Apparently he had decided that it had sold out and become corporate, betraying its values. I'm paraphrasing, but he was REALLY ANGRY!!...as usual...and scornful. I wondered if he had gotten himself kicked out for some reason. But I also thought that he was probably trying to prove himself to be more counter-culture/alternative, more creative and more enlightened than any of the supposedly deluded peons participating in Burning Man. He is truly a piece of work.