CA - Natalie Wood, 43, drowned off California coast, 29 Nov 1981

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this is a great read for anyone who hasn't read it already. also a great recap of a lot of the known info:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2000/03/natalie-wood-s-fatal-voyage
This is an interesting version of the neighboring boat's actions. Is this the correct version, do you think, after all your research?

A few days after the tragedy, John Payne and his girlfriend, Marilyn Wayne, a Los Angeles commodities broker, contacted police to say they had been sleeping aboard a boat,*Capricorn,*which was moored near*Splendour*that night. Around midnight Payne heard a woman yelling, “Help me, someone please help me!” The voice was coming from near the stern of*Splendour*and, Payne believed, from someone in a dinghy. He awakened Wayne, who heard the cries, too. The couple claimed they hadn’t responded because a loud, drunken party was raging on another nearby yacht, and they had thought someone was just “playing around.” Indeed, they had heard a man’s very drunken voice respond mockingly, “O.K., honey, we’ll get you.” They believed the voice belonged to someone at the party, which evidently reinforced their notion that the whole thing was a joke.

ETA - Has anyone seen this psychological autopsy?

"Realizing the truth of that statement, Noguchi later wrote, he commissioned a “psychological autopsy” to find out why Wood “felt she should separate herself from her husband and Walken that night.” However, when the report “on the real facts of the death of Natalie Wood” came in, Noguchi “decided not to release the document to the press. It added details the media would only call ‘gory’ and ‘sensational.’ The report did not alter the official coroner’s conclusion of an accidental drowning. So, rather than create more media indignation over ‘too many details,’ I reluctantly filed away that report.”

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This is an interesting version of the neighboring boat's actions. Is this the correct version, do you think, after all your research?



ETA - Has anyone seen this psychological autopsy?

"Realizing the truth of that statement, Noguchi later wrote, he commissioned a “psychological autopsy” to find out why Wood “felt she should separate herself from her husband and Walken that night.” However, when the report “on the real facts of the death of Natalie Wood” came in, Noguchi “decided not to release the document to the press. It added details the media would only call ‘gory’ and ‘sensational.’ The report did not alter the official coroner’s conclusion of an accidental drowning. So, rather than create more media indignation over ‘too many details,’ I reluctantly filed away that report.”

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I'm not sure it would be worth reading for this reason:

he commissioned a “psychological autopsy” to find out why Wood “felt she should separate herself from her husband and Walken that night.”

He's began it with confirmation bias - that Wood "chose" to leave the boat. He was trying to develop a "psychological profile" that would confirm something he didn't know to be fact.

The key part of that story snippet:

Noguchi’s discretion failed to save his job; complaints from Frank Sinatra and the Screen Actors Guild, among others, continued to accuse him of sensationalizing his duties. He was demoted on April 27, 1982.

Noguchi tried to both follow the script and satisfy the news media. It's been many years ago, but I read Noguchi's book where he talked about this case. It was a long and laborious description of her floating in the water for over an hour afterwards trying to climb into the dinghy while it drifted away from the island. It gave lengthy, detailed descriptions of how she sustained each bruise and scrape while trying to climb into the dinghy from the water (this was before the autopsy became public). JMO a lot of hooha. Kind of a smoke screen. Once you could view the AR diagrams, Noguchi's explanations for how she got such big bruises (on the back of her hand and forearm) made no sense.

Noguchi's version left out a lot of information that was revealed in later years about the group's activities. He always worked from the assumption that NW got up in the middle of the night to tie off the dinghy. The new LAPD investigators didn't do that.

MOO :moo:
 
Just adding, the "conventional wisdom" in the entertainment industry is along the lines of what the boat captain later revealed - she was fighting with RW and he may have pushed her over, then left her to struggle and call for help until it was too late. Also that a "fixer" and an influential entertainer (possibly Sinatra) helped apply pressure to cover it up, so interesting that Sinatra kept speaking up, criticizing investigators at the time. Sounds like he was playing "sheep dog".

Another teaser for the 48 hrs epi shows the new LAPD team visiting Wagner & Wood's house discussing how the captain of the yacht was told to move into the guest house where he stayed for months as RW controlled his activities.

MOO :moo:

ETA: From the VF article, perhaps this was the alleged "fixer", RW's attorney:

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-04/local/me-10_1_los-angeles

Powerful LA attorney, helped the city get the 1984 Olympics, etc.

A friend of Ziffren's, from a 1997 VF article about Sidney Korshak

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/1997/04/The-Man-Who-Kept-The-Secrets

The Man Who Kept The Secrets

As it was in Vegas, so it was in Hollywood. Dominick Dunne, who moved west in 1957, remembers first encountering Sidney Korshak several years later at the home of Paul Ziffren, the entertainment lawyer and former assistant U.S. attorney who was once considered to be the most important force in the California Democratic Party. The Ziffrens, Dunne told me, “had this fantastic beach house, and they used to give these Sunday-night parties, and this one was, I think, being given for the writer Romain Gary, who was the French consul in L.A., and his wife, Jean Seberg— the actress, you know, who later had that terrible death.” (She committed suicide after years of F.B.I. harassment and the failure of her career.) “Sidney was there, and I remember Natalie Wood was there. I mean, it was a jazzy Sunday-night group.”

Korshak was connected to Ronald Reagan, president at the time of NW's death. Could have helped by keeping the FBI, Coast Guard, etc. out of the case.


MOO :moo:
 
I'm going with the simplest explanation (Occam's razor) - she was very "drugged out", had a lot of cocaine and alcohol in her system, and stumbled overboard and drowned.

There's no cover up, no murder mystery.

She just fell overboard in a tragic accident.

That's my two cents.
Now that I'm caught up fully on the thread, I feel like I can comment.

She did not have cocaine in her system. People who are claiming she was on drugs did not read the toxicology report carefully and see that "ND" was alongside the test results for cocaine and others. ND means not detected.

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He switched over to Jill St John just 6 mo post Natalie’s death. THAT really bothered me.
More like 3 months. He was seen out with JSJ Valentine's Day 1982.

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My theory has been that Walken was in an impossible situation. He wasn't a big name actor at the time and had zero clout in the industry. He may have been threatened by "fixers" who helped cover up the facts to protect Wagner. (They probably also rationalized the coverup was to help Natalie's good reputation and legacy). Walken probably gave his account to police, but since they were involved in the cover up, it's probably still in a filing cabinet somewhere.

JMO, Walken tried to do what he could to help, but was threatened by RW and the drowning actually happened pretty quickly, before they could convince RW to let them help her. I've always had the perception from him that he was very upset with what happened, but felt he did all he could to help. He may regret not getting physical with RW, but it may not have made any difference. It would have taken two or more people to get her out of the water and back into the boat. It was a big boat that sat high off the water and someone on board would have had to help get them up, esp in the dark.

I really liked him in "The Deer Hunter" and hoped to see him in a lot more movies. He didn't get a lot of good parts for years afterwards (no movie roles from '83 to ,85), probably as a way to pressure him into keeping quiet.

SBM to focus on Walken. Walken was a big named actor by that point, having won two Oscars. He began acting as a teen and was very successful in theater. By the early 70s he had begun his film career. By 1981, with two Oscars under his belt, he had no trouble finding work, then or afterwards.

I don't believe RW could have or did stall his career in the early 80s.

"Walken's first film of the 1980s was the controversial*Heaven's Gate, directed by Cimino of*Deer Hunter*fame. Walken also starred in the 1981*action*adventure*The Dogs of War, directed by*John Irvin. He surprisedmany critics and filmgoers with his intricate tap-dancing striptease in*Herbert Ross's musical*Pennies from Heaven*(1981). In 1982, he played a socially awkward but gifted theater actor in the film adaptation of*Kurt Vonnegut Jr.'s*short story*Who Am I This Time?*opposite*Susan Sarandon. Walken then played schoolteacher-turned-psychic*Johnny Smith*in*David Cronenberg's 1983*adaptationof*Stephen King's*The Dead Zone. That same year, Walken also starred in*Brainstormalongside*Natalie Wood*and (in a minor role) his wife,*Georgianne.

In 1985, Walken played *advertiser censored*James Bond*villain,*Max Zorin, in*A View to a Kill,*Roger Moore's last appearance as Bond. Walken dyed his hair blond to befit Zorin's origins as *advertiser censored*Naziexperiment."

Walken is one of those actors who doesn't mind not working if a script does not suit him. He's famous for turning scripts down, particularly if he thinks a part was written with only him in mind. He has always been a home-body, and prefers to stay there when not working. He also does not live in Hollywood. I have always had the sense that Hollywood had little sway over how he lives his life. He's also been married to the same woman since 1969. They do not have children - only a rescued cat. Again, he is not like a lot of Hollywood, and I doubt he could have been strong armed.

The captain of the boat has said he was asleep. Walken has said that he was asleep. The narrative from these two men, who likely had never met prior to that weekend, match, which leads me to believe they are telling the truth.

What I said to my husband this morning is that I do think if Walken had not been passed out, that evening would have ended differently. Wagner held no sway over Walken, as he did over the captain. They did not seem to care for each other. Walken had no dog in this fight. So had he been awake, I feel certain he would have insisted harbor patrol be called and flood lights turned on. With both the captain and Walken insisting on this, Wagner would have been overruled.

Natalie would be alive and Hart to Hart would have come to an abrupt end as the world discovered Wagner had beat the hell out of miss Natalie. Walken would have come out a hero. Wagner would have disappeared into drunkenness and probably be dead by now. Natasha WOOD would have had a career in film as opposed to Natasha Wagner. Courtney would be a bit more put together, hopefully having gained a decent step dad somewhere along the way. Katie may not have turned out as well as she has, however, with her father exposed and disgraced unless other people stepped up in her life.

Anyone have a time machine so we can go back to 1981 and pour coffee and uppers down Walken's throat? This has got to haunt him.

But I feel his life went better than the captain's in terms of guilt because Walken can only think what might have been if he had been awake, while the captain was awake and had the opportunity to do the right thing, or if he didn't have the balls to, to wake Walken and ask him to help do the right thing. The captain knows that his decisions could have saved Natalie.

That said, of course Wagner is ultimately responsible. Still, how could the captain not at least go wake Walken for back-up? Even if he believed Natalie was just being left out there to teach her a lesson and was not going to die, what a betrayal to her, knowing as he did her fear of water.

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SBM to focus on Walken. Walken was a big named actor by that point, having won two Oscars. He began acting as a teen and was very successful in theater. By the early 70s he had begun his film career. By 1981, with two Oscars under his belt, he had no trouble finding work, then or afterwards.

I don't believe RW could have or did stall his career in the early 80s.

"Walken's first film of the 1980s was the controversial*Heaven's Gate, directed by Cimino of*Deer Hunter*fame. Walken also starred in the 1981*action*adventure*The Dogs of War, directed by*John Irvin. He surprisedmany critics and filmgoers with his intricate tap-dancing striptease in*Herbert Ross's musical*Pennies from Heaven*(1981). In 1982, he played a socially awkward but gifted theater actor in the film adaptation of*Kurt Vonnegut Jr.'s*short story*Who Am I This Time?*opposite*Susan Sarandon. Walken then played schoolteacher-turned-psychic*Johnny Smith*in*David Cronenberg's 1983*adaptationof*Stephen King's*The Dead Zone. That same year, Walken also starred in*Brainstormalongside*Natalie Wood*and (in a minor role) his wife,*Georgianne.

In 1985, Walken played *advertiser censored*James Bond*villain,*Max Zorin, in*A View to a Kill,*Roger Moore's last appearance as Bond. Walken dyed his hair blond to befit Zorin's origins as *advertiser censored*Naziexperiment."

Walken is one of those actors who doesn't mind not working if a script does not suit him. He's famous for turning scripts down, particularly if he thinks a part was written with only him in mind. He has always been a home-body, and prefers to stay there when not working. He also does not live in Hollywood. I have always had the sense that Hollywood had little sway over how he lives his life. He's also been married to the same woman since 1969. They do not have children - only a rescued cat. Again, he is not like a lot of Hollywood, and I doubt he could have been strong armed.

The captain of the boat has said he was asleep. Walken has said that he was asleep. The narrative from these two men, who likely had never met prior to that weekend, match, which leads me to believe they are telling the truth.

What I said to my husband this morning is that I do think if Walken had not been passed out, that evening would have ended differently. Wagner held no sway over Walken, as he did over the captain. They did not seem to care for each other. Walken had no dog in this fight. So had he been awake, I feel certain he would have insisted harbor patrol be called and flood lights turned on. With both the captain and Walken insisting on this, Wagner would have been overruled.

Natalie would be alive and Hart to Hart would have come to an abrupt end as the world discovered Wagner had beat the hell out of miss Natalie. Walken would have come out a hero. Wagner would have disappeared into drunkenness and probably be dead by now. Natasha WOOD would have had a career in film as opposed to Natasha Wagner. Courtney would be a bit more put together, hopefully having gained a decent step dad somewhere along the way. Katie may not have turned out as well as she has, however, with her father exposed and disgraced unless other people stepped up in her life.

Anyone have a time machine so we can go back to 1981 and pour coffee and uppers down Walken's throat? This has got to haunt him.

But I feel his life went better than the captain's in terms of guilt because Walken can only think what might have been if he had been awake, while the captain was awake and had the opportunity to do the right thing, or if he didn't have the balls to, to wake Walken and ask him to help do the right thing. The captain knows that his decisions could have saved Natalie.

That said, of course Wagner is ultimately responsible. Still, how could the captain not at least go wake Walken for back-up? Even if he believed Natalie was just being left out there to teach her a lesson and was not going to die, what a betrayal to her, knowing as he did her fear of water.

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I'm still unsure about whether Walken woke up at some point. I've read both theories. Obviously, he had to have been awakened sometime that night, probably around 1:30 am when RW called the Harbor Patrol and the search began. Doubtful he would have slept through that. I've read a couple of places online in discussion of case files that Walken gave a full statement to LE at some point. AFAIK, it has never been publicly released, but I have a feeling the details of this statement are the reason why LE never considered him a POI or suspect, then or now. Whatever he saw and heard, he told LE about it.

I'm still unsure about how much this affected his career. After reading the article at the link below about "fixer" Stanley Korshak and his close relationship to Lew Wasserman (powerhouse Hollywood agent, NW was a top client), I'm not sure. Korshak, et al may have seen Walken's statement to LE, but kept it hidden, waiting to see if Walken would ever discuss details in the news media. Korshak died in the mid 1990's. Wasserman died in 2002. The article is a great read, you should check it out. It reveals a lot about Hollywood's ties to organized crime, Vegas, etc. It's pretty long, though.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/1997/04/The-Man-Who-Kept-The-Secrets

JMO, Walken has a clear conscience on this. I think he did everything he could and was likely very traumatized by the event for many years afterward.

LAPD may never get a final answer, since most of the evidence was tossed, due to it being an "accident". Will be interesting to see what's on the show tonight.
 
I'm still unsure about whether Walken woke up at some point. I've read both theories. Obviously, he had to have been awakened sometime that night, probably around 1:30 am when RW called the Harbor Patrol and the search began. Doubtful he would have slept through that. I've read a couple of places online in discussion of case files that Walken gave a full statement to LE at some point. AFAIK, it has never been publicly released, but I have a feeling the details of this statement are the reason why LE never considered him a POI or suspect, then or now. Whatever he saw and heard, he told LE about it.

I'm still unsure about how much this affected his career. After reading the article at the link below about "fixer" Stanley Korshak and his close relationship to Lew Wasserman (powerhouse Hollywood agent, NW was a top client), I'm not sure. Korshak, et al may have seen Walken's statement to LE, but kept it hidden, waiting to see if Walken would ever discuss details in the news media. Korshak died in the mid 1990's. Wasserman died in 2002. The article is a great read, you should check it out. It reveals a lot about Hollywood's ties to organized crime, Vegas, etc. It's pretty long, though.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/1997/04/The-Man-Who-Kept-The-Secrets

JMO, Walken has a clear conscience on this. I think he did everything he could and was likely very traumatized by the event for many years afterward.

LAPD may never get a final answer, since most of the evidence was tossed, due to it being an "accident". Will be interesting to see what's on the show tonight.
The Vanity Fair article from 2000 that someone posted in the last day or so has information about his statement to LE at the time. It's a long read, but I highly recommend it, because the sources were solid.

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The Vanity Fair article from 2000 that someone posted in the last day or so has information about his statement to LE at the time. It's a long read, but I highly recommend it, because the sources were solid.

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Thanks, I'll read it again. I don't recall finding a lot about Walken's statement the first time I read it.
 
I love Christopher Walken"..........oops did I type that out loud?
 
48 hrs episode starting now.

A neighbor reported that she ran from her house in the middle of the night seeking shelter from RW. They took her in and helped her.

LACSD investigators said after announcing publicly they were reopening the case, they got more than 150 leads. They've spent the last 6 years investigating those leads.

Someone on a nearby boat saw RW and NW fighting on the boat on Friday. Started by NW. That was the night she went to Catalina Is and spent the night in the hotel.
 
It would seem like the Splendour was a tad “crowded” with both CW and RW
 
It would seem like the Splendour was a tad “crowded” with both CW and RW

Yes, the investigator says he corroborated the captain's claim that Wagner was behaving very jealous towards CW and NW that weekend. Others noticed Wagner was angry Sat night at the restaurant and he was being ignored by the others.

Two new witnesses saw them on the back of the boat Sat night, fighting. Argument stopped suddenly, acc to witnesses. No one went into the water. Investigator says woman who said she heard NW call for help was probably wrong.

They think RW untied the dinghy himself while Davern was searching for her elsewhere on the boat. Wagner opens scotch and starts drinking.

Search started at 3:30 am

RW made up a story and told Davern & Walken to stick to it. All followed the story originally telling it to police - no mention of fight and that she went ashore in the dinghy on her own. Only interviewed Wagner 1 more time.
 
Why was she found with a winter coat on? Her nightgown was underneath the coat. Did RW really put a
coat on her?
 
Why was she found with a winter coat on? Her nightgown was underneath the coat. Did RW really put a
coat on her?

Good question. Maybe she put it on to go out on the back of the boat to get away from arguing with RW. Witnesses saw them arguing on the back deck of the boat, just outside their bedroom. They had been fighting in the bedroom according to Davere. Throwing stuff, he possibly hitting her, could hear banging, etc. She probably put the coat on and went out there to get away.
 
Probably because she left the argument in the bedroom and walked out to the stern of the boat to cool off and have a big but RW followed her out and the argument continued until her disappearance.
 
New investigators did interview Walken in the last few years. Won't say what he told them, but they say Walken is not a person of interest. Wagner won't talk to them.

Lt Corina & Det Hernandez are coming forward now because they want more witnesses to come forward and share info.
 
Cigarette. Not sure why it came out "big". It was a chilly,windy,rainy night. Hence the winter coat.
 
48 hrs. Was kind of a disappointment. Really no new information other than what is already out there. With the exception of a new witness who actually saw the fight, which I never heard of and frankly makes no sense. Where was this witness 36 years ago?
 

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