CA - Natalie Wood, 43, drowned off California coast, 29 Nov 1981

[eve]

in his book POMH he changes his mind a few times about what happened... first she couldn't have taken the dinghy (her fear of dark water, no engine heard)... then maybe she did take the dinghy?... then he doesn't know... then maybe she tried to tie up the dinghy...


:banghead:


"I went below, and Natalie wasn't there," he wrote. "Strange. I went back up on the deck and looked around for her and noticed the dinghy was gone. Stranger*. I remember wondering if she'd taken the dinghy because of the argument, and then I thought, No way, because she was terrified of dark water, and besides that, the dinghy fired up loudly, and we would have heard it, whether we were in the salon or on deck."


He speculated that she might have driven the dinghy to a cove and the engine died. The dinghy was found in a cove the following morning at 5:30 a.m., but Wood wasn't on it.

...

Wagner says he still doesn't know what happened. He thinks she might have gotten up to refasten the dinghy, then slipped and fell in the water, the dinghy drifting away.


*in this account he contradicts the statement from 1981 that she would've taken the dinghy out alone... he uses the word "stranger" to describe the dinghy being gone but if she truly did take the dinghy out alone sometimes, he wouldn't have found it strange that the dinghy was gone.

plus, if she were tying up the dinghy, davern (via rulli in GNGS) said there were two ropes that attached it to the yacht so no way would both ropes have gotten loose if she was re-tying it. she'd have tied one then the other not both at the same time considering how far apart they were.

btw, eve, you said above that you are leaning towards believing DD but i'm still stuck on why no one went for her after a few minutes if RW merely wanted to teach her a lesson. this makes no sense...

can anyone theorize why they'd leave her out in the water for so long?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/18/natalie-wood-death-robert-wagner-memoir_n_1101958.html

I think by the time DD knew about her going over, RW convinced him it was too late, ordered no search and the CYA position began. I really do think it happened during the argument on the back deck and that RW had warned DD away. So he was blasting music and getting blasted, trying to block it out.

How she went over? Accident or not, the subsequent actions (non-actions) make RW and DD culpable, imo, if it is true that they could have searched and saved her and did not.

I think account in RW's book is spin, a rewrite of history no one can prove wrong.

Eve

 

[Columbo]

Still no word from LE and the re-opened "Investigation"? I guess there's no hurry after 30 years!

I haven't read everyone's recent posts but did see where someone got a copy of RW's book from the library. I might do the same and check for DD's and LW's books, too. I mean, after all, what I read about Natalie's death 30 years ago is a bit fuzzy now. I'm a slight bit curious to see what the men have said in their books.

That was me, I got RW's POMH and the Davern-Rulli book at the library. I thought I remembered everything perfectly from 30 years ago, but I did not!

 

[Columbo]

in his book POMH he changes his mind a few times about what happened... first she couldn't have taken the dinghy (her fear of dark water, no engine heard)... then maybe she did take the dinghy?... then he doesn't know... then maybe she tried to tie up the dinghy...


:banghead:


"I went below, and Natalie wasn't there," he wrote. "Strange. I went back up on the deck and looked around for her and noticed the dinghy was gone. Stranger*. I remember wondering if she'd taken the dinghy because of the argument, and then I thought, No way, because she was terrified of dark water, and besides that, the dinghy fired up loudly, and we would have heard it, whether we were in the salon or on deck."


He speculated that she might have driven the dinghy to a cove and the engine died. The dinghy was found in a cove the following morning at 5:30 a.m., but Wood wasn't on it.

...

Wagner says he still doesn't know what happened. He thinks she might have gotten up to refasten the dinghy, then slipped and fell in the water, the dinghy drifting away.


*in this account he contradicts the statement from 1981 that she would've taken the dinghy out alone... he uses the word "stranger" to describe the dinghy being gone but if she truly did take the dinghy out alone sometimes, he wouldn't have found it strange that the dinghy was gone.

plus, if she were tying up the dinghy, davern (via rulli in GNGS) said there were two ropes that attached it to the yacht so no way would both ropes have gotten loose if she was re-tying it. she'd have tied one then the other not both at the same time considering how far apart they were.

btw, eve, you said above that you are leaning towards believing DD but i'm still stuck on why no one went for her after a few minutes if RW merely wanted to teach her a lesson. this makes no sense...

can anyone theorize why they'd leave her out in the water for so long?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/18/natalie-wood-death-robert-wagner-memoir_n_1101958.html

Does anyone else think that they set the dinghy loose in order to make it look like she tried to get in the dinghy and instead, fell in the water? It seems so diabolical, though, and hard to get my head around that. Or maybe they tried to get in the dinghy to search and were so drunk/stoned that the dinghy floated away?

I'm almost finished with POMH and the chapter where Natalie drowns, I got that feeling of "it's all about me" from RW. The next chapter, about the weeks and months following her death, seemed more emotionally real as far as describing how he felt. Maybe the co-author helped him? It's just so hard to figure him out...after all, he's an actor....He sure drops a lot of names in that book, too. Geesh.

 

[Columbo]

I think by the time DD knew about her going over, RW convinced him it was too late, ordered no search and the CYA position began. I really do think it happened during the argument on the back deck and that RW had warned DD away. So he was blasting music and getting blasted, trying to block it out.

How she went over? Accident or not, the subsequent actions (non-actions) make RW and DD culpable, imo, if it is true that they could have searched and saved her and did not.

I think account in RW's book is spin, a rewrite of history no one can prove wrong.

Eve

bolded by me

I may have missed something, but where was DD during the time the discussion or argument in the stateroom was happening ? RW doesn't mention it in his book; I can't remember what DD said about it. Was he in the wheelhouse all that time?

At the very least, in his book, RW has downplayed and almost eliminated any tensions or anger among the four of them that weekend. And he pretty much can say anything he wants and rewrite history as much as he wants because no one can prove that it happened differently!

 

[eve]

bolded by me

I may have missed something, but where was DD during the time the discussion or argument in the stateroom was happening ? RW doesn't mention it in his book; I can't remember what DD said about it. Was he in the wheelhouse all that time?

At the very least, in his book, RW has downplayed and almost eliminated any tensions or anger among the four of them that weekend. And he pretty much can say anything he wants and rewrite history as much as he wants because no one can prove that it happened differently!

I'm sure someone who knows will jump in, but I remember DD saying something like this: he heard them arguing, went to their stateroom door to check on them and RW shooed him away. He then went (to his own quarters or wheel?) and played music. At some point he looked and saw NW on the back deck in her nightgown arguing with RW (no jacket) and later looked back and didn't see her anymore, but saw RW leaning against the railing.

At some point then DD asked to use searchlight and RW said no. I also remember DD said RW said "She's gone. She's gone."

Eve

 

[Columbo]

I'm sure someone who knows will jump in, but I remember DD saying something like this: he heard them arguing, went to their stateroom door to check on them and RW shooed him away. He then went (to his own quarters or wheel?) and played music. At some point he looked and saw NW on the back deck in her nightgown arguing with RW (no jacket) and later looked back and didn't see her anymore, but saw RW leaning against the railing.

At some point then DD asked to use searchlight and RW said no. I also remember DD said RW said "She's gone. She's gone."

Eve

Yes, that is DD's current accounting of events--different from 1981.

 

[eve]

Yes, that is DD's current accounting of events--different from 1981.

Thanks, Columbo -- I am glad I remembered fairly well because I didn't fact-check and expected to get corrected (happily). Yes, he says this is the real deal and that he lied. I have a hard time seeing his motive to lie about lying. Realizing his memory may be imperfect and especially if he was trashed, I remain persuaded by him. And I can't ignore my recent distaste for RW, somehow (and I used to lovelovelove him). He just seems like a jealous, social-climbing, arrogant, insecure pretty boy. Sorry. Guess I am trashing. That is my intuitive impression since this has come into the news again.

DD has more to lose than gain in important ways. The issue was closed, RW in his 80's. His book was 2 years old. It's not about a Kardashian. Seriously, there aren't that many of us interested in these stars from our youth/prime. LOL! I don't think this story was worth his opening himself up to all this. Perhaps I am wrong.

Or he could be hoping for some money and still be telling the truth.

Eve

 

[Columbo]

Thanks, Columbo -- I am glad I remembered fairly well because I didn't fact-check and expected to get corrected (happily). Yes, he says this is the real deal and that he lied. I have a hard time seeing his motive to lie about lying. Realizing his memory may be imperfect and especially if he was trashed, I remain persuaded by him. And I can't ignore my recent distaste for RW, somehow (and I used to lovelovelove him). He just seems like a jealous, social-climbing, arrogant, insecure pretty boy. Sorry. Guess I am trashing. That is my intuitive impression since this has come into the news again.

DD has more to lose than gain in important ways. The issue was closed, RW in his 80's. His book was 2 years old. It's not about a Kardashian. Seriously, there aren't that many of us interested in these stars from our youth/prime. LOL! I don't think this story was worth his opening himself up to all this. Perhaps I am wrong.

Or he could be hoping for some money and still be telling the truth.

Eve

bolded by me.

Like you, I hate to say it, but I think he is all these things. As far as jealousy, he wasn't even sure that Natalie was having an affair with Warren Beatty when he said he was ready to take a gun over to his house and confront him. In fact it sounds like she wasn't intimately involved with WB until she and RW had split.

As far as social-climbing, I guess so--he really loved (loves) Hollywood, and the stars he met. He was dazzled by them, for sure, and loved being around them. According to the book he was great friends with David Niven, and others. Much of his book seems to be about the people he knew. To his credit, he didn't run away from his daughters or even his mother-in-law after Natalie died. He has taken care of them all.

I also can't see why DD would lie about lying at this point! GNGS was published 2 years ago, so why wait until now if he was doing this as a promotional gimmick?

 

[redheadedgal]

i have lana wood's book now... unfortunately i am also not feeling well right now... bronchitis (pretty bad this time too)... so i will take a break from posting and be back when i have the energy. thanks for the continued debate. enjoying it immensely! take care sleuths :seeya:

 

[Columbo]

i have lana wood's book now... unfortunately i am also not feeling well right now... bronchitis (pretty bad this time too)... so i will take a break from posting and be back when i have the energy. thanks for the continued debate. enjoying it immensely! take care sleuths :seeya:

I'm sorry you are not feeling well, redheadedgal--take care of yourself. I hope you see a doctor if necessary. Keep warm and dry! Glad you have some interesting reading material to carry you through....

BTW, RW doesn't give a great rating to Lana. If he'd said anything really untrue in his book, I'd think she could sue him for slander (?). But he says that when Lana and Natalie's mom was living with her, she had 10 cats and the house was not clean--not enough litter boxes, I guess, from what he said. (I'm being polite). Also, he makes her sound like a vulture who swooped down on Natalie's clothes that were willed to her.

Anyhow, feel better soon! :seeya:

 

[eve]

i have lana wood's book now... unfortunately i am also not feeling well right now... bronchitis (pretty bad this time too)... so i will take a break from posting and be back when i have the energy. thanks for the continued debate. enjoying it immensely! take care sleuths :seeya:

Get better, redheadedgal!

Eve

 

[Columbo]

An interesting tidbit from RW's book. Just a detail but interesting.

You know how sometimes people have favorite expressions, ones they tend to use a lot?

RW had a 4 year romance with Barbara Stanwyck, a woman much older than he. He made a comment in the book --I forget what he was referring to in particular--but he said "because that's the kind of woman she was"....Remember the search and rescue worker said that RW stated he thought Natalie was off on another boat screwing around "because that's the kind of woman she is" ? I never doubted the word of the search person, but having read the comment about Barbara Stanwyck, I really can hear RW saying that.

 

[redheadedgal]

I think by the time DD knew about her going over, RW convinced him it was too late, ordered no search and the CYA position began.

thanks!! for the get well wishes... still not good... but...

i've been wondering how the neighboring boat hearing her cries --if in fact this did occur-- and the supposed male response fits into this sequence of events... why would he shout out to her then do nothing? is it even possible this is possible? the thought of this is just heinous to me...

 

[redheadedgal]

I'm sorry you are not feeling well, redheadedgal--take care of yourself. I hope you see a doctor if necessary. Keep warm and dry! Glad you have some interesting reading material to carry you through....

BTW, RW doesn't give a great rating to Lana. If he'd said anything really untrue in his book, I'd think she could sue him for slander (?)... Also, he makes her sound like a vulture who swooped down on Natalie's clothes that were willed to her.

thanks!! too for the get well wishes...

the bits of the book i've read so far, LW doesn't flatter RW either... says he kept her from the girls, didn't invite her to family functions, completely ignored her requests to talk etc...

seems he could've sued her for what she said about him in her book too ???

LW goes into detail about NWs clothes... apparently there was a lot of clothing too!! says she inferred from the will that NW wanted her to sell what she didn't want... said natalie was always taking her excess, unwanted, old clothes to re-sale shops... so why wouldn't she do the same with what she didn't want?

i guess we'll never know the truth about the family dynamics either... both parties would no doubt "spin" things to their advantage i'm sure.

she does mention something interesting about what RW told her about what happened on the yacht that night:

"Lana. It was an accident. You must believe me. Do you believe me?" *

"Yes. But what happened?"

"Chris and I were talking and she went off to bed. She must have fallen overboard or something like that." **


* why would RW be so adamant to need to know LW believed him? sounds like something someone who is hiding something would say imo.

** all other reports were that CW was in his room... how many versions do we have now from RW? from the three of them? :banghead:

if something is the truth, the facts do not change. the same version is told again and again with no inconsistencies.


imo, someone is hiding something.​

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Does anyone else think that they set the dinghy loose in order to make it look like she tried to get in the dinghy and instead, fell in the water? It seems so diabolical, though, and hard to get my head around that. Or maybe they tried to get in the dinghy to search and were so drunk/stoned that the dinghy floated away?

I'm almost finished with POMH and the chapter where Natalie drowns, I got that feeling of "it's all about me" from RW. The next chapter, about the weeks and months following her death, seemed more emotionally real as far as describing how he felt. Maybe the co-author helped him? It's just so hard to figure him out...after all, he's an actor....He sure drops a lot of names in that book, too. Geesh.

I haven't yet checked for the books at my library but I'm eagerly reading your opinions.

I also wondered if they tossed the dinghy on purpose as a cover. I guess we're thinking alike. Diabolical, indeed. Although it was found not too far from her body. We could assume that's the way the current flowed if we go with our theory.

I, too, thought the 10-15 minutes was a bit ridiculous after a heated argument. Really? Maybe it was said in hopes of not appearing unfeeling? Saying he didn't care if she took hours to return could have sounded harsh, albeit, more realistic after a fight and with the volatile atmosphere on that yacht. I dunno.

It bothers me that CW claims to know nothing while DD claims to know nearly everything - 30 years later. Again, I think everyone has something to hide.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

she does mention something interesting about what RW told her about what happened on the yacht that night:

"Lana. It was an accident. You must believe me. Do you believe me?" *

"Yes. But what happened?"

"Chris and I were talking and she went off to bed. She must have fallen overboard or something like that." **


* why would RW be so adamant to need to know LW believed him? sounds like something someone who is hiding something would say imo.

** all other reports were that CW was in his room... how many versions do we have now from RW? from the three of them? :banghead:

BBM

I don't count LW's version of what RW allegedly told her as another RW version. I count it as LW's version. It's more like "he said/she said". Reflecting on the animosity between the two, I can't put more stock in her book version than I can in his.

IMO, LW's version is just that, her version, what she chooses to remember. After all, she was not on the yacht that night and we know she's had differences with RW. :waitasec:

 

[Columbo]

thanks!! too for the get well wishes...

the bits of the book i've read so far, LW doesn't flatter RW either... says he kept her from the girls, didn't invite her to family functions, completely ignored her requests to talk etc...

seems he could've sued her for what she said about him in her book too ???

LW goes into detail about NWs clothes... apparently there was a lot of clothing too!! says she inferred from the will that NW wanted her to sell what she didn't want... said natalie was always taking her excess, unwanted, old clothes to re-sale shops... so why wouldn't she do the same with what she didn't want?

i guess we'll never know the truth about the family dynamics either... both parties would no doubt "spin" things to their advantage i'm sure.

she does mention something interesting about what RW told her about what happened on the yacht that night:

"Lana. It was an accident. You must believe me. Do you believe me?" *

"Yes. But what happened?"

"Chris and I were talking and she went off to bed. She must have fallen overboard or something like that." **


* why would RW be so adamant to need to know LW believed him? sounds like something someone who is hiding something would say imo.

** all other reports were that CW was in his room... how many versions do we have now from RW? from the three of them? :banghead:

if something is the truth, the facts do not change. the same version is told again and again with no inconsistencies.


imo, someone is hiding something.

​

bolded by me.

"She must have fallen overboard or something like that". Isn't that a callous way to say it? His supposedly beloved wife dies and he describes the "accident" this way? He sounds like he is separating or distancing himself from what happened. It also sounds childish. IMO

And yes, why is he so worried that Lana might not believe his story?

About Natalie's clothes: I wonder if Lana rushed to get them because she feared RW might dispose of them himself? Also, it sounds like she had fallen on hard times and might have needed any money she could get from selling what she didn't want to keep.

 

[Columbo]

I haven't yet checked for the books at my library but I'm eagerly reading your opinions.

I also wondered if they tossed the dinghy on purpose as a cover. I guess we're thinking alike. Diabolical, indeed. Although it was found not too far from her body. We could assume that's the way the current flowed if we go with our theory.

I, too, thought the 10-15 minutes was a bit ridiculous after a heated argument. Really? Maybe it was said in hopes of not appearing unfeeling? Saying he didn't care if she took hours to return could have sounded harsh, albeit, more realistic after a fight and with the volatile atmosphere on that yacht. I dunno.

It bothers me that CW claims to know nothing while DD claims to know nearly everything - 30 years later. Again, I think everyone has something to hide.

bolded by me.

I think RW is trying to bolster his image in every way he can.

 

[eve]

I haven't yet checked for the books at my library but I'm eagerly reading your opinions.

I also wondered if they tossed the dinghy on purpose as a cover. I guess we're thinking alike. Diabolical, indeed. Although it was found not too far from her body. We could assume that's the way the current flowed if we go with our theory.

I, too, thought the 10-15 minutes was a bit ridiculous after a heated argument. Really? Maybe it was said in hopes of not appearing unfeeling? Saying he didn't care if she took hours to return could have sounded harsh, albeit, more realistic after a fight and with the volatile atmosphere on that yacht. I dunno.

It bothers me that CW claims to know nothing while DD claims to know nearly everything - 30 years later. Again, I think everyone has something to hide.

I wonder what DD has to say about the dinghy. Did he see it, was it gone when he found that NW was gone? I assume if RW decided to cover up her going overboard, he detached dinghy and set it loose. Ugh.

I believe CW decided long ago to completely stay out of this. Maybe he justified it in his own mind by not really knowing much, but...one would think he knows something.


Eve

 

[redheadedgal]

I wonder what DD has to say about the dinghy. Did he see it, was it gone when he found that NW was gone?

marti rulli (from GNGS): p. 289:

Dennis had always suggested to me that RJ had released the dinghy. I now, without a doubt, believe that he did.


*prior to this statement she explains at length just why NW couldn't have untied the dinghy... and she mentions too that NW was not known to operate the dinghy alone out of her fear of water... so that's another contradiction b/c didn't someone (maybe myself) post a snippet earlier about RW saying she did take the dinghy out alone?