CA - Off Duty Police Officer shoots man and parents after altercation in Costco, Corona, June 2019

[BayouBelle_LA]

Just look at this officer in particular- He has been on the job seven years and this is at least the second time he has been involved in a case where unarmed civilians were shot.

http://da.lacounty.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/JSID_OIS_Carranza, Hernandez.pdf

DA: No charges against LAPD officers in shooting of newspaper carriers during Dorner manhunt – Daily Breeze

I read Sanchez's statement of this incident. He never fired his weapon. IMO this shows he's not a trigger happy hot head.

I'm willing to give this police officer the benefit of the doubt, since I know he suffered an unprovoked attack while holding his young son. Subject to change.

 

[Curiousobserver]

A: these are two reports of the same incident. (Horrendous incident—I’m not trying to downplay it.)

B: he was not one of the ones doing the shooting.

That's wasn't the point- the point was the frequency in which police officers are involved with shootings where the person is unarmed. This officer has been involved in a situation like this at least twice (Costco and the report I copied) and he has only been a cop for 7 years.

When you read the police report he states he didn't shoot because he was worried about hitting another officer, not because he had the good judgement to recognize the mistake that was about to happen.

He overreacted to a situation and almost killed two unarmed newspaper delivery people. The other officers did ultimately shoot these people.

This officer's testimony helped to prevent charges being filed on the other officers.

The report gives you insight into how they think. Maybe a little too much "shoot first and ask questions later".

 

[fannneee]

A local radio show is airing a segment on Police shootings now on Air Talk with a "Police Expert" This should be interesting

 

[Keefer]

Agree totally mickey. The increase in questionable on-duty and off-duty officer involved shootings has been concerning to me of course but always a comfortable distance away. This one is in my backyard. I am extremely familiar with that area. I used to live very close to that Costco, it is one I go to sometimes now (I live equidistant between 2) and my son lives in Corona. To go that way I would drive down a street that borders the French's neigborhood. Paola works for the city I live closest to (5 mins away). It is no longer a white cop black victim thing either. This was hispanic on indian. This feels like a common place occurance to me now. It is everywhere.

I actually think that it is the applicants and hiring qualifications. The financial criteria has been waived. Being able to manage finances is an issue related to impulse control, one thing that should be looked at more critically. IMO.

Education has also been given a pass. GED used to be Tier III, now, it is, "Pass the Physical", we can waive everything else, including criminal issues. The issues are adjudicated, but it lets applicants pass screening criteria that used to be more rigorous.

Well, police training has changed. In the old days say 30 or more years ago “defensive tactics” were heavily emphasized. Pretty rare to meet a street cop with an advanced college degree in those days. I knew some old school cops and going “hands on” was a rite of passage and a part of the job. Today cops have a different tool box. S.S. Apparently just had his pistol. A pistol is a tool like a hammer but when the Only tool you have is that hammer every problem becomes a nail.

 

[mickey2942]

I read Sanchez's statement of this incident. He never fired his weapon. IMO this shows he's not a trigger happy hot head.

I'm willing to give this police officer the benefit of the doubt, since I know he suffered an unprovoked attack while holding his young son. Subject to change.

I am definitely giving him the benefit, as well.

My issue is that off duty police officer shootings need to be handled completely differently from on duty officer involved shootings. That is the issue I have.

 

[Jessthinkin]

Page 8 of the PDF in bold- the newspaper article is another report of the incident.

Thanks. I just read page 8 of the pdf, though, and it says SS was there, but DIDN’T fire a gun. How is that relevant to the current situation? If anything, those reports shed a favorable light on SS and his actions in that past situation.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Thanks. I just read page 8 of the pdf, though, and it says SS was there, but DIDN’T fire a gun. How is that relevant to the current situation? If anything, those reports shed a favorable light on SS and his actions in that past situation.

Yes and no- he didn't shoot that is true, however, the reason he gave for not shooting was that he perceived a cross-fire situation. He didn't say, these people didn't match the description of the people I was looking for (they didn't) and didn't pose any danger to him (they didn't). He didn't say he was worried he'd shoot an innocent civilian, he said he was was worried he'd shoot a fellow police officer. Otherwise, IMO he would have fired. I would also like to add my opinion that he didn't take his rifle out to get a better look, he took it out to see if he could get a better shot.

 

[MsFacetious]

Also the point of linking the prior incident was to show the frequency of them. In only 7 years SS has been on the scene of two officer involved shootings of unarmed civilians.

Both occurring after violence against fellow officers.
Which may help explain but will never excuse their actions.

I just don't understand how you go from "pushed to the ground" to "shooting someone."
I mean whatever happened to "what the hell man?" and punching the guy back? Just seems so unnecessary.

 

[PrairieWind]

I am definitely giving him the benefit, as well.

My issue is that off duty police officer shootings need to be handled completely differently from on duty officer involved shootings. That is the issue I have.

I would agree with that. In this case, it really doesn't matter that he was an off-duty police officer. It should be dealt with as if he was just any other person that happens to be able to legally care a firearm.

 

[kaen]

I read Sanchez's statement of this incident. He never fired his weapon. IMO this shows he's not a trigger happy hot head.

I'm willing to give this police officer the benefit of the doubt, since I know he suffered an unprovoked attack while holding his young son. Subject to change.

The problem is that we don't "know" anything. We have statements from two sides. We have police retelling the shooter's narrative. We don't really have anything that says that this man deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Not necessarily you, but there is so much speculation with so little "known" that is almost a farce to state with assurance about the baby, the head injury, the father trying to talk to the shooter before he shot, etc. What we know is that a man lost his life and his mother is fighting for hers and there was a chicken teriyaki samples cart nearby. Other than that we have legal minds putting forth a narrative.

 

[mickey2942]

I would agree with that. In this case, it really doesn't matter that he was an off-duty police officer. It should be dealt with as if he was just any other person that happens to be able to legally care a firearm.

And it definitely was not. I can tell you that if anyone else with a CCW had shot three people at Costco, who were unarmed, the shooter would have been arrested. And probably tested for alcohol and drugs.

Even if you stated it was "self defense", I personally have not seen LEO too sympathetic regarding "self defense" when it was an armed individual killed an unarmed person.

The shooter would not have just been told to go home.

 

[Lilibet]

Its how cops are trained these days. They are anticipating the worst possible scenario. They operate largely out of fear.
<rsbm>
Google GILEE, it could be quite an eye opener, for some at least..

Chilling!

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Yes and no- he didn't shoot that is true, however, the reason he gave for not shooting was that he perceived a cross-fire situation. He didn't say, these people didn't match the description of the people I was looking for (they didn't) and didn't pose any danger to him (they didn't). He didn't say he was worried he'd shoot an innocent civilian, he said he was was worried he'd shoot a fellow police officer. Otherwise, IMO he would have fired. I would also like to add my opinion that he didn't take his rifle out to get a better look, he took it out to see if he could get a better shot.

Are you saying Sanchez was lying? He said he took his rifle out for a better view through the scope. He saw the two women exit the vehicle and approach him. He didn't shoot because he knew they didn't match the description. IMO

I think it's unfair to say he was being untruthful.

 

[jjenny]

Galipo say's he didn't know if there was any exchange between the officer and French. If he did in fact watch the security video he would know the answer to that wouldn't he?

A push and a slap are two very different acts IMO. I find it hard to believe a slap to the back would send the officer to the ground. If Galipo watched the video it would be clear to him what happened. JMO

Attorney: Man killed at Costco was mentally ill, off meds

He viewed the video. It's not always clear what happens, even if there is a video, because you might have to view multiple videos from different angles. In this case so far we have been told there is only one security video and it might not even show the whole thing.
<modsnip - link and quote are not from MSM>

 

[jjenny]

Yes indeed. My cousin has a masters degree and served in the Peace Corps. He developed schizophrenia in his mid-twenties.

Yep, if that's what he has, he could have appeared completely normal until whatever age his symptoms started to show, which could be early adulthood. There are also plenty of other conditions that develop later in life.
Seems to me parents didn't talk about his exact condition with other relatives, as other relatives don't seem to be sure as to what exactly Kenneth had.

 

[Lilibet]

Yep, if that's what he has, he could have appeared completely normal until whatever age his symptoms started to show, which could be early adulthood. There are also plenty of other conditions that develop later in life.
Seems to me parents didn't talk about his exact condition with other relatives, as other relatives don't seem to be sure as to what exactly Kenneth had.

I expect that if he was mentally ill, the parents of French were uncomfortable sharing that specific information even with family. There is still such a stigma about mental illness.

 

[jjenny]

I expect that if he was mentally ill, the parents of French were uncomfortable sharing that specific information even with family. There is still such a stigma about mental illness.

Yes, I agree.

 

[mickey2942]

Maybe everyone needs to wear shirts with slogans...

"Don't shoot me, I am disabled"

"Don't push me, I have a gun".

Seriously, I worked with enough Autistic kids, and adults to know that they don't always have the best social skills, even with constant teaching. And they don't always listen or pay attention. Now, Mr. French may not be autistic, but he may have similar problems.

I can see how he may have been focused on the Teriyaki chicken, a bit impatient, and pushed SS, even inadvertently, he was quite large.

SS, knocked over, because he didn't notice Mr. French, and reacts to the push. I am still going with he should have done an assessment before guns blazing. He is at Costco on Saturday morning, not in a dark alley.

 

[Medstudies]

I have been engaged in the field of clinical research related to ocular disease. (30years +) Working with the blind/legally blind

I look at the population of my study patients and shake my head, wondering how many of them have run into someone while struggling to navigate this crazy world. (Heck! I have inadvertently bumped into pedestrians myself)

I guess I’m grateful none of my patients (and their families) have encountered someone whose first inclination was to shoot out of fear.

 

[FlamingoLady]

Maybe everyone needs to wear shirts with slogans...

"Don't shoot me, I am disabled"

"Don't push me, I have a gun".

Seriously, I worked with enough Autistic kids, and adults to know that they don't always have the best social skills, even with constant teaching. And they don't always listen or pay attention. Now, Mr. French may not be autistic, but he may have similar problems.

I can see how he may have been focused on the Teriyaki chicken, a bit impatient, and pushed SS, even inadvertently, he was quite large.

SS, knocked over, because he didn't notice Mr. French, and reacts to the push. I am still going with he should have done an assessment before guns blazing. He is at Costco on Saturday morning, not in a dark alley.

Actually it was almost closing time on a Friday night but I get what you're saying.