Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[swanniee11]

I finally watched the interview. Excellent job all the way around.
O/T- I like the chiefs ringtone.
IMO, parents were asked to take a lie detector and declined. I agree with above comments that they would have been speaking out on that. Do the parents have a lawyer that we know of?

 

[PommyMommy]

Very sad for all of the kids.
I think two of them are biological ?
And even those boys have not been placed with relatives.
It's looking like all of those children were in a bad situation !

Ita.

Sadly this has not happened.
As far as TW and JW moving from the house in Cal. City... if your children wandered off and became lost --as TW said in his interview -- wouldn't they want to stay there in case the boys returned ?
Instead they scampered off.
They're not acting like concerned parents.
Imo.

BBM I don't think that's what TW said, though. I'm not going to go back and re-listen to it but if I recall, he said, "They couldn't have gotten away that fast." And, JW said they didn't just roam around "these patches." She said she thinks they definitely would have been picked up "or somethin'."

Anyway, I'm not so sure that I wouldn't have left that house as well if there were people on my driveway yelling and screaming, rocks coming in the window, and death threats being made. I think I'd prefer that LE be able to focus on finding my children rather than deal with those unnecessary distractions. MOO

 

[Rachelj1]

Agreed, and I never condoned any parent's losing their tempers.
Not sure if anyone thinks I posted that as an excuse.
Of course not.
Just so it's clear.

I think the written comments can be mistaken for siding with the adoptive parents, despite LE indicating otherwise -- not sure but some posts can be misunderstood.

If TW and JW could not properly parent those children, they should have let them go into foster care where they'd all be safe and alive, before doing something they may have regretted.
I know it's hindsight now.

Of course it's no excuse.
I'm curious about what LE discovered after speaking with the other children ?
Not that we're privy to that.
But the digging at the house happened fairly quickly and it looks like LE aren't searching for a kidnapper.
Imo.

I agree with you it does not look like it at all that they think those kids were abducted does it?

moo

 

[Rachelj1]

Yes, I'm glad he asked if the children were still in protective custody. CPS must have found evidence of abuse or neglect since they won't even return them to the grandmother. Imo

That’s what I think to . I think it’s odd those kids haven’t been able to go back to another family member .

moo

 

[Rachelj1]

Thanks for the information, @Rachelj1 !
Looks like our worst fears may have happened ?
Imo.

Have you ever heard that old saying it’s always trafficking until it’s not. So normally I am like the last person to ever think that’s the case. I always use that as like a last resort. So it’s hard for me to think about two little boys that young being trafficked also, but you know in this particular case nothing would surprise me with J and TW to be honest.. and that scares me .


Moo

 

[Vae Victus]

... just like in Perla's interview, Cal City Chief did a lot of parsing of words around his portion of the investigation.

• In Perla interview, when asked if BPD took over investigation he specified that Cal City is still lead on the "missing persons investigation" - the way he parsed that certainly hinted that there was another investigation in which BPD may be the lead (e,g, homicide)
• At 23:45 in Bayan Wang full interview, Chief says "My portion of the investigation at this point - How did those kids get out of the backyard?"
• At 30:00 in Bayan Wang, he asks if Silver Saddle was last search and chief parses "In Cal City, yeah"
  ...

You make a great point that I was going to make too! Did you catch that at 13:11-13:17 | California City Police Chief full 30 minute interview ?? The Wests have come in multiple times (3x) for questioning and Walker made sure to really emphasize the word "here" even with a hand gesture. So does this mean that BPD has questioned them at their station too? If BPD is just helping in a periphery sense like Walker stated during his first and second interviews with their labs, searches, and evidence processing, etc. what reason would they have to interrogate the Wests if CCPD is the lead? Unless that's commonplace idk. If not the BPD maybe the FBI took them for questioning somewhere? Either way, I thought that the emphasis of "here" was noteworthy. Could be nothing though lol.

 

[Lyanna]

In Leila Cavett's case, her little boy wasn't placed with family straight away, maybe for housing checks, checking whether the family would be able to support him through his traumatic experience etc. maybe its the same for these children?

Eta - in all honesty though I think there is a possibility other children may have shared info that is important to what happened to O and O and thats why they not with extended family etc.

Imo

 

[nannymo]

You make a great point that I was going to make too! Did you catch that at 13:11-13:17 | California City Police Chief full 30 minute interview ?? The Wests have come in multiple times (3x) for questioning and Walker made sure to really emphasize the word "here" even with a hand gesture. So does this mean that BPD has questioned them at their station too? If BPD is just helping in a periphery sense like Walker stated during his first and second interviews with their labs, searches, and evidence processing, etc. what reason would they have to interrogate the Wests if CCPD is the lead? Unless that's commonplace idk. If not the BPD maybe the FBI took them for questioning somewhere? Either way, I thought that the emphasis of "here" was noteworthy. Could be nothing though lol.

I guess there is a possibility a crime was committed in BPD district?

 

[LietKynes]

That’s what I think to . I think it’s odd those kids haven’t been able to go back to another family member .

moo

I find that odd as well.
CPS usually will place children with relatives if applicable.
Imo.

 

[LietKynes]

You make a great point that I was going to make too! Did you catch that at 13:11-13:17 | California City Police Chief full 30 minute interview ?? The Wests have come in multiple times (3x) for questioning and Walker made sure to really emphasize the word "here" even with a hand gesture. So does this mean that BPD has questioned them at their station too? If BPD is just helping in a periphery sense like Walker stated during his first and second interviews with their labs, searches, and evidence processing, etc. what reason would they have to interrogate the Wests if CCPD is the lead? Unless that's commonplace idk. If not the BPD maybe the FBI took them for questioning somewhere? Either way, I thought that the emphasis of "here" was noteworthy. Could be nothing though lol.

Good catch, @Vae Victus !
I also thought he wanted to emphasize that the investigation is ongoing and is nowhere near 'cold'.
Not that any of us here thought that -- more like letting the public (and maybe certain people) know LE are inspecting every minutiae of what happened to Orrin and Orson ?
Different agencies are working tirelessly to either rescue the boys or seek justice.
I find that reassuring !
Imo.

 

[mickey2942]

If they had indeed taken a lie detector and PASSED the AP's would be the first ones to run to the media and let everybody know about it asap!. The fact that they haven't done this tells me that they either refused the lie detector or they failed it.

I am not a fan of lie detectors. I have "failed" several. Which, after a lot of research, has made me conclude that they are really a psychological tool to get people to confess. And hard core liars, can pass a lie detector test with flying colors.

What will happen if they do not find these children?

 

[LietKynes]

Chief refused to comment on that. But based on my personal experience, the children have absolutely been interviewed already as part of the investigation. When children are taken into protective custody, the state/CPS are now the ones to give permission for interviews etc.

Agree. Overdose and hypothermia are two causes of child deaths that I have seen in other cases that could be COD/MOD affecting two children at the same time. These seem like highest likelihood to me. Potentially combined with further signs of abuse and neglect which made reporting especially problematic.

Hot car deaths and drownings have also caused sibling deaths, though it seems like those would have been reported unless discovered so late or under such circumstances as to be severely neglectful.

Of course we do not know for sure if both children went missing at the same time. There have been cases of siblings disappearing months apart and eventually found with signs of severe physical abuse. But like others here, it is harder for me to fathom such severe physical abuse as to result in death occurring in two children at the same time.

Another point to consider is the effect of a severely fragile ego. Someone with a severely fragile ego may lie about circumstances of a disappearance or cover up an accident that others would report because their ego cannot handle admitting they made a mistake. For example, I could imagine someone with a fragile ego concocting a story that puts them in a more positive light (eg collecting firewood to keep their family comfortable, wrapping presents) rather than admitting an accident or unintended consequence of a punishment. JMO

bbm
Excellent point about the ego.
Wonder if those boys --all of them-- were under a strict household ?
Afraid to disobey or get out of line lest the AP's suddenly snap and lose it ?
By now LE would know .. if they've been able to interview them without family present.

Re. the green bolded : I never thought of that angle.
However, if they did go missing at the same time, it points more to a planned event and and not a spur of the moment coverup.
Imo.

 

[tatertot]

LE said they brought in "all types of dogs" and they have the family's van. Wouldn't that rule out a hot car death if the cadaver dogs failed to hit on the van?

 

[Vae Victus]

According to Bayan Wang's update on FB we have LE back at the West house currently. | Bayan Wang 23ABC

"INVESTIGATION: Authorities from various agencies are gathering "statistical" data Friday of the perimeter of the California City home where two toddler brothers were reporting missing. Cal City Police Chief Jon Walker told me they are using drone imaging and also gathering more information of the back gate of the home, which the adoptive parents of the boys said was left open, when the boys went missing Dec. 21."

What do you guys think the drone imaging would be for this late into the investigation? In your opinions?

 

[Frodosdojo]

I have another question for everyone - if Chief is correct and two of the kids were foster kids, then could an upcoming CPS visit be the reason the parents may have come up with the story about Orsin and Orrin ? I'm actually relieved to hear the 4 kids are still in protective custody. I just don't feel like they would be safe at home. IMO.

IMO lie detector testing is irrelevant.
If I were accused of a crime, I would refuse to take one. They are not inaccurate and they are subject to interpretation, and no attorney would advise you take one. If they refused to take one, that doesn't tell us anything, IMO.

I am most interested in what's been going on in the interview room.

I'm worried they were given back their phones because they are newly- purchased (relatively), and there was nothing of interest to analyze.

LE has had the phones for a month now so would you agree that is enough time to get everything they needed off of them ?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

According to Bayan Wang's update on FB we have LE back at the West house currently. | Bayan Wang 23ABC

*statistical??

 

[kyrarose]

Did you guys see this? There’s supposed to be another news conference this afternoon.

BPD, federal agencies make arrests following years-long human trafficking investigation at Bakersfield motel | KGET 17

 

[Rachelj1]

I have another question for everyone - if Chief is correct and two of the kids were foster kids, then could an upcoming CPS visit be the reason the parents may have come up with the story about Orsin and Orrin ? I'm actually relieved to hear the 4 kids are still in protective custody. I just don't feel like they would be safe at home. IMO.



LE has had the phones for a month now so would you agree that is enough time to get everything they needed off of them ?

Hey , sorry I should of replied separately but I’m super surprised they got their phones back . I’m thinking there must of not been much on them !

moo

 

[Frodosdojo]

*statistical??

Maybe they are writing up the affidavit and gathering all data ? Just hopeful here.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

According to Bayan Wang's update on FB we have LE back at the West house currently. | Bayan Wang 23ABC

"INVESTIGATION: Authorities from various agencies are gathering "statistical" data Friday of the perimeter of the California City home where two toddler brothers were reporting missing. Cal City Police Chief Jon Walker told me they are using drone imaging and also gathering more information of the back gate of the home, which the adoptive parents of the boys said was left open, when the boys went missing Dec. 21."

What do you guys think the drone imaging would be for this late into the investigation? In your opinions?

Looking at vegetation, sediment or underground water.
3-D map?