Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[LietKynes]

The stance itself doesn't really bother me as much as the lack of movement. Have you ever talked to someone who doesn't use their hands to gesture at all for 13 minutes? That would look really weird to me. He pointed in directions using his head ( watch the part of the video about talking to "the gentleman over there"). Normal subconscious action would be to gesture with your hands. It looks to me like a deliberate inaction, like he was forcing himself not to gesture with his hands in the direction of where he spoke to the gentleman IMO. I don't have any idea what he might be trying to hide on his hands, but to me, he was very deliberately not showing his hands. Jmo and musings

Agreed.

Twice in that video the cameraperson tried to zoom in on TW's hands.
I found that interesting.
MOO

 

[kshultz06082]

That’s what I think to . I think it’s odd those kids haven’t been able to go back to another family member .

moo

Could be that no one is suitable. Not being suitable does not mean they are bad people. It could be something as simple as not having enough bedrooms based on CPS rules/guidelines for fostering. Jmo

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

About the holes.

This pic is from 2018. There are holes.

The link was sent to me by a better sleuther than I:
10717 Aspen Avenue, California City, CA 93505 for Sale MLS# 18011282

Interesting is that it says septic sewer system.

 

[Knox]

I thought we already determined the homes in that neighborhood are on City Sewer? Connections and piping, are typically on the front of the house at the street?

 

[Vae Victus]

About the holes.

This pic is from 2018. There are holes.

Around 1:56 you can kind of see the backyard too in the realtor's walk through video | 10717 Aspen Ave, Calif City, CA 93505 - 3 beds/2 baths

 

[Dre]

worded with a bit more detail here:

“investigators were gathering "statistical" information of the home's perimeter, while using drones from above for imaging. Measurements and photographs were taken from the inside and outside of the home.”

are they not measuring the architecture of the home extremely precisely? What’s going on?
Woah not the secret room theory please!! Lol moo.


https://www.turnto23.com/news/local...-where-adopted-brothers-were-reported-missing

 

[Auntie Cipation]

In Chief's recent interview he stated that LE had excavated the backyard. So PE Mike was wrong when he said he didn't believe the holes were created by LE.

What if the holes were already there, and when LE investigated, they dug a bit into the bottom of the pre-existing holes, to see what they might find?

That might explain the appearance of conflicting reports with photographic evidence if LE sifting dirt at the holes, while others claim LE didn't dig them. It would also explain why no piles of fresh dirt were seen next to the holes.

MOO

Also, someone commented earlier that LE couldn't check for O & O's DNA because they wouldn't know if they were given items that actually belonged to O & O or was really from the other kids.

But can't LE ask for DNA samples for all the boys, from which they could rule out anything coming from the other four?

Unless APs could refuse to allow the kids to be DNA swabbed, I suppose.

re-MOO

 

[Frodosdojo]

About the holes.

This pic is from 2018. There are holes.

The link was sent to me by a better sleuther than I:
10717 Aspen Avenue, California City, CA 93505 for Sale MLS# 18011282

Interesting is that it says septic sewer system.

I did not see one hole in those pictures. I saw bushes, but no holes.

 

[Frodosdojo]

What if the holes were already there, and when LE investigated, they dug a bit into the bottom of the pre-existing holes, to see what they might find?

That might explain the appearance of conflicting reports with photographic evidence if LE sifting dirt at the holes, while others claim LE didn't dig them. It would also explain why no piles of fresh dirt were seen next to the holes.

MOO

Also, someone commented earlier that LE couldn't check for O & O's DNA because they wouldn't know if they were given items that actually belonged to O & O or was really from the other kids.

But can't LE ask for DNA samples for all the boys, from which they could rule out anything coming from the other four?

Unless APs could refuse to allow the kids to be DNA swabbed, I suppose.

re-MOO

Did you see the holes from the old pictures ? I didn't see any. Maybe someone can circle them.

The Chief said in his interview last night that they excavated the backyard. That sounds to me that he completely tore it up. I doubt he would lie.

The only person I heard who said LE didn't dig these recent holes is Mike from PE. He is wrong and it isn't the first time, probably won't be the last. It's okay to be wrong, none of us are perfect.

You make a very good point about eliminating dna. Except I wasn't talking about dna, I was talking about scent. Hopefully they tested the items given to the scent dogs for dna to see if it matched the missing babies.

I learned from members here that since the other kids are in protective custody, the parents cannot refuse anything.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

What if the holes were already there, and when LE investigated, they dug a bit into the bottom of the pre-existing holes, to see what they might find?

That might explain the appearance of conflicting reports with photographic evidence if LE sifting dirt at the holes, while others claim LE didn't dig them. It would also explain why no piles of fresh dirt were seen next to the holes.

MOO

Also, someone commented earlier that LE couldn't check for O & O's DNA because they wouldn't know if they were given items that actually belonged to O & O or was really from the other kids.

But can't LE ask for DNA samples for all the boys, from which they could rule out anything coming from the other four?

Unless APs could refuse to allow the kids to be DNA swabbed, I suppose.

re-MOO

I would think they could get a court order if needed. Can't understand why the APs would deny it anyway. They would want to pull out all the stops to find their precious Boys, and do everything in their power to do what is needed concerning the other four that are in protective custody. MOO

 

[mickey2942]

Could be that no one is suitable. Not being suitable does not mean they are bad people. It could be something as simple as not having enough bedrooms based on CPS rules/guidelines for fostering. Jmo

In this situation, I think LEO wants to control access to the kids by the parents. And what I find very interesting, is that two of the children are their biological children. Maybe they suspect one parent will flip on the other one to get his or her children back.

 

[PommyMommy]

Beginning at the 7:41 mark:

Wang: What kind of work has been done in the back yard?

Chief: That back yard has been completely excavated by an FBI forensic team. We found some piles of dirt back there, so just to be sure, we actually dug them up.

Wang: Sure of what?

Chief: Sure that there wasn't anything in the back yard that you know, could lead us to the kids.

 

[PommyMommy]

worded with a bit more detail here:

“investigators were gathering "statistical" information of the home's perimeter, while using drones from above for imaging. Measurements and photographs were taken from the inside and outside of the home.”

are they not measuring the architecture of the home extremely precisely? What’s going on?
Woah not the secret room theory please!! Lol moo.


https://www.turnto23.com/news/local...-where-adopted-brothers-were-reported-missing

I would think at a minimum, they need measurements of the fence on the side of the house to compare to the heights of the family members seen in the neighbor's surveillance video. ie: Were O & O tall enough to be seen entering the van?

Would they have been tall enough to be seen on the neighbor's surveillance video if they left via the gate?

Etc, etc. MOO

 

[PommyMommy]

JAN 22, 2021
Candlelight vigil scheduled for Monday in honor of 2 missing California City boys | KGET 17
[...]

The vigil for the two boys is set for 6 p.m. Jan. 25 at 10717 Aspen Ave. in California City. Candles will be provided for those who attend.

 

[NCHydrangea]

I thought we already determined the homes in that neighborhood are on City Sewer? Connections and piping, are typically on the front of the house at the street?

Yes. The current information states that the house has a sewer system. It’s possible that the development was originally built with septic, but then petitioned the City or County to extend the sewer. Typically, the sewer main will be in the street and the services tie into the main in front of the house. Sometimes the main may be on a side street or a sewer outfall and the service will be on the side or back of the house. An easy way to tell would be Google street views and checking for manhole covers.

edited because words are hard

 

[Lyanna]

How many gates are there to the back garden of the cal city home? I only see 2 metal gates but can't work out if there is wooden gates also, if there is only the metal gates, I don't see how the neighbour's surveillance camera (the one that was shown on YT) would pick up the boys leaving as that neighbour house is the wrong side to see the metal gates?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Is it possible LE retrieved previous drone imaging from days, weeks, months, years before to scan for anomalies in comparison to December 21?

 

[Hexe]

worded with a bit more detail here:

“investigators were gathering "statistical" information of the home's perimeter, while using drones from above for imaging. Measurements and photographs were taken from the inside and outside of the home.”

are they not measuring the architecture of the home extremely precisely? What’s going on?
Woah not the secret room theory please!! Lol moo.


https://www.turnto23.com/news/local...-where-adopted-brothers-were-reported-missing

Measuring the house precisely from both inside and outside makes me think about a hidden room. As in the LE have felt something is off with this building and the space inside does not fit with the external size of the house, so they check it up with precise tools, trying to find out where this missing space should be.

 

[MsBetsy]

I did not see one hole in those pictures. I saw bushes, but no holes.

I didn't see any holes in those pictures either. I looked through all the pictures twice and could not find even one hole. There was uneven ground, as if someone had planted the small trees or shrubs, but no holes.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Measuring the house precisely from both inside and outside makes me think about a hidden room. As in the LE have felt something is off with this building and the space inside does not fit with the external size of the house, so they check it up with precise tools, trying to find out where this missing space should be.

I think you’re on to something here. LE seems convinced there is no way for the kids to just vanish into the air. We know they weren’t teleported. So the kids vanish: look left, right, up, down and all around. They couldn’t have left by fireplace, hidden room sounds good. The only other thing I can think of are tunnels underneath the home or yard. Drones can detect geographical layers. I’m wondering about the previous owners of the house and did seller/buyer know each other? How long was the house vacant before AP bought it?