Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #3

[NCHydrangea]

I checked Google Street maps from around 2012 and there does not appear to be manholes in any of the streets and I see no indication of a sewer easement so my guess is that the development was originally built with septic systems. Going by the write up in the real estate listing, the house has “sewer”.

I haven’t researched County Codes, but they may have been allowed to leave the septic tanks in place, especially if they were newer tanks.

Not sure if this actually means anything because I really don’t think the boys made it to Cali City, but just something to keep in mind.

Also, septic tanks are typically buried with an access lid on top for maintenance. The access lids may be up to 24” to 30”, depending in the type of septic required by code. The top of the septic tank can easily be completely covered by soil and/or soil for aesthetic reasons.

MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

Measuring the house precisely from both inside and outside makes me think about a hidden room. As in the LE have felt something is off with this building and the space inside does not fit with the external size of the house, so they check it up with precise tools, trying to find out where this missing space should be.

I think they are doing further analysis on the evidence they already have. The measurements might be to compare with the surveillance footage they have gathered, in order to confirm their findings. They also might want to rule out other scenarios, such as the possibility the boys could have left the yard and not have been seen on video. They probably already know this, but they need to be able to prove it in court. Their analysis can also be used to either confirm or refute the parent's description of their actions during the timeframe they gave.

Chief Walker stressed that they do not have any physical evidence. He also mentioned that video evidence is physical evidence. Since they have a lot of circumstantial evidence, the video evidence might end up being crucial to the case.

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

How many gates are there to the back garden of the cal city home? I only see 2 metal gates but can't work out if there is wooden gates also, if there is only the metal gates, I don't see how the neighbour's surveillance camera (the one that was shown on YT) would pick up the boys leaving as that neighbour house is the wrong side to see the metal gates?

The neighbor said the house across the street has a camera that is facing the front of the house. That might show the gate. There are also other cameras in the neighborhood. Police say they have lots of footage and are still going through it. They should also be able to see if any cars passed the house at the time the boys disappeared.

ETA. And yes, there is only one gate in the back yard, leading to the garage. There is a smaller gate on the left side of the house by the garbage can.

 

[MadTing]

how are people proposing this hidden room came about? are your proposing the house came with a hidden room or are you thinking they built one themselves?

If the former i am pretty LE would have contacted all of the previous owners and asked them about this by now, the previous owners must have told the AP's about it too and with 2 kids missing and lots of media attention i don't see why the previous owner would not tell LE where it is.

 

[Hexe]

how are people proposing this hidden room came about? are your proposing the house came with a hidden room or are you thinking they built one themselves?

I think about something the AP built themselves.

 

[Lusitana]

That seems like a lot of visits to the home. Didn’t LE also visit Gannon Stauch’s home several times?

 

[MsBetsy]

how are people proposing this hidden room came about? are your proposing the house came with a hidden room or are you thinking they built one themselves?

If the former i am pretty LE would have contacted all of the previous owners and asked them about this by now, the previous owners must have told the AP's about it too and with 2 kids missing and lots of media attention i don't see why the previous owner would not tell LE where it is.

Yes, the chief has already dispelled the "hidden room" rumor as well as the suggestion that there are bodies hidden underneath the house.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yes, IMO the "statistical data" has to do with forensic statistics, i.e. DNA profiling, possibly profiling in a case where there is a mixture of DNA in order to determine biological relationships between people.

IOW, IMO LE is looking to examine the various DNA found in the home. If that's correct then they *may* be attempting to ascertain whether the boys were ever in that house. All MOO.

I speculate you are correct. IWA think this is a step towards a compelling study that the D.A. would consider in advance of an arrest. JMO.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Dre]

Measuring the house precisely from both inside and outside makes me think about a hidden room. As in the LE have felt something is off with this building and the space inside does not fit with the external size of the house, so they check it up with precise tools, trying to find out where this missing space should be.

Yes, exactly what I’m saying!
The image painted with those words is precise measurement of alignment from all angles, like other data and blue prints needed to be double checked because something was physically not lining up or making sense.
My dad is an architect and want to read that to him to see what he thinks- he alone built several gorgeous rooms in the house I grew up in, and we did end up having some hidden storage spaces. I know it was a dumb rumor on Facebook but maybe they’ve somehow found some merit for one reason or another. Those types of measurements and analysis are time consuming and they must have a good reason for the need to do measurements from the inside. Moo

 

[Rachelj1]

Yes, exactly what I’m saying!
The image painted with those words is precise measurement of alignment from all angles, like other data and blue prints needed to be double checked because something was physically not lining up or making sense.
My dad is an architect and want to read that to him to see what he thinks- he alone built several gorgeous rooms in the house I grew up in, and we did end up having some hidden storage spaces. I know it was a dumb rumor on Facebook but maybe they’ve somehow found some merit for one reason or another. Those types of measurements and analysis are time consuming and they must have a good reason for the need to do measurements from the inside. Moo

Wow. I honestly can not believe what is going on ? This is like out of a movie . The thought of them having hidden spaces is so disturbing !!!!!! Then if they did have a hidden room, it makes you question soooo many other things .
Moo

 

[Frodosdojo]

Wow. I honestly can not believe what is going on ? This is like out of a movie . The thought of them having hidden spaces is so disturbing !!!!!! Then if they did have a hidden room, it makes you question soooo many other things .
Moo

The Chief said the day before yesterday there are no hidden rooms.

 

[Rachelj1]

The Chief said the day before yesterday there are no hidden rooms.

Ok thank you for bringing my mind back in. I felt like I was having a cardiac arrest for a minute !!

 

[Rachelj1]

So I am back to, they probably got some forensic evidence back and they probably need to measure everything and have 100% confirmation that these boys did not escape through the gate or climb the gate or any of those suggestions that would’ve been made. Once they can rule that out without a doubt then they can really move forward I think too.

moo

 

[Dre]

That was said by the chief before these measurements started happening.
I think the chief is going to say anything to deflect Facebook rumor fodder, which is good on him as crazy as people are getting over this case. Many times he decided not to speak on things because he didn’t want idiots (me?) to run with it.

One would say there are no hidden spaces until they find one. Sure sounds to me like they are looking now!

read again, or over and over like my partner and I have lol:

“investigators were gathering "statistical" information of the home's perimeter, while using drones from above for imaging. Measurements and photographs were taken from the inside and outside of the home.”

 

[rosesfromangels]

So I am back to, they probably got some forensic evidence back and they probably need to measure everything and have 100% confirmation that these boys did not escape through the gate or climb the gate or any of those suggestions that would’ve been made. Once they can rule that out without a doubt then they can really move forward I think too.

moo

Sounds like something they would use in court to refute the "they disappeared on their own" defense.
Sounds to me like an arrest is coming soon, as I predicted up thread. Wait for it...

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Dre]

I’m personally not feeling imminent arrest, unfortunately. Feels like they’re halfway back to the drawing board to be taking extensive measurements in a place they’ve searched repeatedly, moo
I’ll hope along with you though!

 

[Knox]

I would think at a minimum, they need measurements of the fence on the side of the house to compare to the heights of the family members seen in the neighbor's surveillance video. ie: Were O & O tall enough to be seen entering the van?

Would they have been tall enough to be seen on the neighbor's surveillance video if they left via the gate?

Etc, etc. MOO

That's it, you nailed it Pommy.

 

[Algo214]

I would think at a minimum, they need measurements of the fence on the side of the house to compare to the heights of the family members seen in the neighbor's surveillance video. ie: Were O & O tall enough to be seen entering the van?

Would they have been tall enough to be seen on the neighbor's surveillance video if they left via the gate?

Etc, etc. MOO

BBM

In what's strictly my opinion and speculation I'd say no, that fence looks way too tall for 3ft toddlers to show, specially from the angle of the neighbour's camera we've seen.

 

[Knox]

DBM

 

[Mistree]

Is it possible LE retrieved previous drone imaging from days, weeks, months, years before to scan for anomalies in comparison to December 21?

This is exactly where my mind went and has been.