Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #5

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Hey everybody,

One of Websleuths basic principles is that we are victim friendly, and that includes toward family members. At this time nobody has been officially named by LE to be a POI or suspect in this case, so please tone down the direct accusations and insinuations against anyone who has not been officially named by LE to be responsible.

We know of cases where the most obvious suspect did not end up being the person responsible. Nothing worse than re-victimizing a victim.

Members may respectfully discuss known facts as they are available to us via MSM or other approved sources, but please do not set about trashing anyone who has not been officially named responsible.

Thank you.
 
Rachelj1 said:
This whole situation is eye opening . Again the only victims are these boys IMO, but I just can not help feeling for the biological mom. Hands down she loves those boys, and maybe the state should of focused more on the tools she needed to get her kids back . They just take these rights away too soon I think. Keep the children with the biological family at all costs unless there is noted abuse and neglect . I don’t think this woman was abusive , I think she needed help.

moo
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This is what confuses me. I have seen so many horrid cases where the children were left in the bio-parents care for way too long. Like Young Gabriel, for one glaring example. So many cases where mandated reporters sent in complaints about bruises and broken bones, and dirty clothing and truancy, malnutrition. And nothing changes, just report after report and sometimes the child dies because of CPS inaction.

So it is hard for me to believe they just took these two boys, for no reason at all. I don't usually see parental rights being taken too soon. And I worked in LAUSD for a decade and saw many sad cases that we had to report. In my experience, they are given many chances to correct their behaviours. And are given clear steps that need to be taken. It is all written out for them. The necessary classes that they need to attend----and after each step they are given notice of what the next step is.

I have heard people complain about all the hoops they need to jump through. But it isn't anymore difficult than what is needed to raise a child. One needs to have a safe place for the child to eat and sleep, a way to provide them consistent meals, a way for them to get their schooling and health care and a way to provide them nurturing, encouragement and support.

Doing all of the above is a necessity. If one cannot follow through with the reunification process then the actual process of raising the child may be out of reach too.

"Keeping the children with the biological families at all costs" is a frightening thought, in my opinion. What are the possible costs?
 
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Howdy Everyone. I just recently started following here and am having a hard time catching up. Has it been revealed (through Websleuths approved sources/posting, etc.) why the boy's family moved to California City? Do they have jobs there? Thank you. JMOO
 
Aloe said:
Howdy Everyone. I just recently started following here and am having a hard time catching up. Has it been revealed (through Websleuths approved sources/posting, etc.) why the boy's family moved to California City? Do they have jobs there? Thank you. JMOO
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Hi Aloe, and welcome to the thread. I recommend reading the media thread as the best way to catch up. I don't think either of your questions have been answered in MSM but someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong. :) MOO

CA - CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE - NO DISCUSSION (websleuths.com)
 
Aloe said:
Howdy Everyone. I just recently started following here and am having a hard time catching up. Has it been revealed (through Websleuths approved sources/posting, etc.) why the boy's family moved to California City? Do they have jobs there? Thank you. JMOO
Click to expand...

It was said earlier in the thread that California City has a low cost of living, lower prices for homes, compared to elsewhere in California. It was also said that JW was a stay-at-home mother. I don't recall reading whether TW was formally employed or other reasons why they may have moved there in particular. All IMO.
 
ChatteringBirds said:
It was said earlier in the thread that California City has a low cost of living, lower prices for homes, compared to elsewhere in California. It was also said that JW was a stay-at-home mother. I don't recall reading whether TW was formally employed or other reasons why they may have moved there in particular. All IMO.
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Thank you! @ChatteringBirds
 
I was under the impression that, when you have one child removed and you go on to have more children, any minor thing, will get the remaining children removed too.

I don’t live in the US, but a former coworker had her first daughter removed and she is still in a foster care type of facility, she never got her back, she ended up having another child recently and is being watched closely by CPS. She was advised that she moved to a different home when her baby got to the age of having her own bedroom, otherwise she would be removed. So she moved to another house so the baby could have her own bedroom.

So yeah, it wouldn’t really surprise me if the boys were removed for something minor and not something super scary. Their bio mom has, at least, one older son.
 
katydid23 said:
This is what confuses me. I have seen so many horrid cases where the children were left in the bio-parents care for way too long. Like Young Gabriel, for one glaring example. So many cases where mandated reporters sent in complaints about bruises and broken bones, and dirty clothing and truancy, malnutrition. And nothing changes, just report after report and sometimes the child dies because of CPS inaction.

So it is hard for me to believe they just took these two boys, for no reason at all. I don't usually see parental rights being taken too soon. And I worked in LAUSD for a decade and saw many sad cases that we had to report. In my experience, they are given many chances to correct their behaviours. And are given clear steps that need to be taken. It is all written out for them. The necessary classes that they need to attend----and after each step they are given notice of what the next step is.

I have heard people complain about all the hoops they need to jump through. But it isn't anymore difficult than what is needed to raise a child. One needs to have a safe place for the child to eat and sleep, a way to provide them consistent meals, a way for them to get their schooling and health care and a way to provide them nurturing, encouragement and support.

Doing all of the above is a necessity. If one cannot follow through with the reunification process then the actual process of raising the child may be out of reach too.

"Keeping the children with the biological families at all costs" is a frightening thought, in my opinion. What are the possible costs?
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Sometimes they do and Kern county if you research it, they have been under a lot of heat in prior years with a lot of very questionable ethical practices, Ill post a link.

"At all costs" meaning you help the biological mother or parents get on track if its possible. Not worry about a quota. As long is its not abuse or neglect. If its marijuana? A drug program maybe?
I’m a mother , and I want nothing more than those boys to be ok, but I think this is a failure that falls on a lot of people to be honest.
Fear, discontent reportedly widespread at Kern County Department of Human Services

Just one of the many articles you will find about KERN COUNTY.

“In a letter sent to the Board of Supervisors as part of the claim, a law firm representing employee Monica Fitzgerald said she had witnessed unethical behavior while working for Child Protective Services in 2016, which included several individuals using false evidence to have children removed from their family.”



MOO
 
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ChatteringBirds said:
It was said earlier in the thread that California City has a low cost of living, lower prices for homes, compared to elsewhere in California. It was also said that JW was a stay-at-home mother. I don't recall reading whether TW was formally employed or other reasons why they may have moved there in particular. All IMO.
Click to expand...
He wanted to be “off grid” according to TW. One of the reasons .
 
Lusitana said:
I was under the impression that, when you have one child removed and you go on to have more children, any minor thing, will get the remaining children removed too.

I don’t live in the US, but a former coworker had her first daughter removed and she is still in a foster care type of facility, she never got her back, she ended up having another child recently and is being watched closely by CPS. She was advised that she moved to a different home when her baby got to the age of having her own bedroom, otherwise she would be removed. So she moved to another house so the baby could have her own bedroom.

So yeah, it wouldn’t really surprise me if the boys were removed for something minor and not something super scary. Their bio mom has, at least, one older son.
Click to expand...
The bio mom you can feel her pain I think, you see it and feel it . With JW and TW I just didn’t see it.
Moo
 
katydid23 said:
This is what confuses me. I have seen so many horrid cases where the children were left in the bio-parents care for way too long. Like Young Gabriel, for one glaring example. So many cases where mandated reporters sent in complaints about bruises and broken bones, and dirty clothing and truancy, malnutrition. And nothing changes, just report after report and sometimes the child dies because of CPS inaction.

So it is hard for me to believe they just took these two boys, for no reason at all. I don't usually see parental rights being taken too soon. And I worked in LAUSD for a decade and saw many sad cases that we had to report. In my experience, they are given many chances to correct their behaviours. And are given clear steps that need to be taken. It is all written out for them. The necessary classes that they need to attend----and after each step they are given notice of what the next step is.

I have heard people complain about all the hoops they need to jump through. But it isn't anymore difficult than what is needed to raise a child. One needs to have a safe place for the child to eat and sleep, a way to provide them consistent meals, a way for them to get their schooling and health care and a way to provide them nurturing, encouragement and support.

Doing all of the above is a necessity. If one cannot follow through with the reunification process then the actual process of raising the child may be out of reach too.

"Keeping the children with the biological families at all costs" is a frightening thought, in my opinion. What are the possible costs?
Click to expand...

I suspect there are probably loads of unpleasant details behind how the boys ended up where they did (with their adoptive family), that we will not be able to discuss here since they'd fall into sleuthing family.

I just wish LE would find these boys, and bring to justice whoever disappeared them.
Today would be good.

jmo
 
Ontario Mom said:
I suspect there are probably loads of unpleasant details behind how the boys ended up where they did (with their adoptive family), that we will not be able to discuss here since they'd fall into sleuthing family.

I just wish LE would find these boys, and bring to justice whoever disappeared them.
Today would be good.

jmo
Click to expand...
Today would be the best thing ever !!
 
Rachelj1 said:
You’re right , this is why detectives jobs I think are so hard ... they have to be patient and I’m sure they want to act ASAP.
Moo
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It’s also because a DA wants to be sure they have a prosecutable case. Sometimes LE feels they have enough to arrest but the DA wants more. It happened in Susan Powell’s case and look how that turned out.
 
Rachelj1 said:
Sometimes they do and Kern county if you research it, they have been under a lot of heat in prior years with a lot of very questionable ethical practices, Ill post a link.

"At all costs" meaning you help the biological mother or parents get on track if its possible. Not worry about a quota. As long is its not abuse or neglect. If its marijuana? A drug program maybe?
I’m a mother , and I want nothing more than those boys to be ok, but I think this is a failure that falls on a lot of people to be honest.
Fear, discontent reportedly widespread at Kern County Department of Human Services

Just one of the many articles you will find about KERN COUNTY.

“In a letter sent to the Board of Supervisors as part of the claim, a law firm representing employee Monica Fitzgerald said she had witnessed unethical behavior while working for Child Protective Services in 2016, which included several individuals using false evidence to have children removed from their family.”



MOO
Click to expand...
Yeah, I saw that article too. There are complaints like that in almost every county across the US. Employees are overworked understaffed, and under paid. Working conditions are sometimes unsafe. Customers do sometimes become unruly. A few years ago in Illinois, a caseworker died after being beaten.

In terms of caseworkers using false evidence in their reports, their claims still need to be proven in court. They can write whatever they want (including 'opinions') but it is ultimately up to a judge to decide whether or not children should be removed from their homes. They can't claim medical neglect or that the child was injured as a result of abuse without providing medical records supporting those claims.

I think it is much more often the case that children are left in abusive homes when they should be placed in foster care. They are given many chances and provided with many resources. Once they complete the court ordered services and their case is closed, they often go right back to ther old habits.

Imo
 
MsBetsy said:
Yeah, I saw that article too. There are complaints like that in almost every county across the US. Employees are overworked understaffed, and under paid. Working conditions are sometimes unsafe. Customers do sometimes become unruly. A few years ago in Illinois, a caseworker died after being beaten.

In terms of caseworkers using false evidence in their reports, their claims still need to be proven in court. They can write whatever they want (including 'opinions') but it is ultimately up to a judge to decide whether or not children should be removed from their homes. They can't claim medical neglect or that the child was injured as a result of abuse without providing medical records supporting those claims.

I think it is much more often the case that children are left in abusive homes when they should be placed in foster care. They are given many chances and provided with many resources. Once they complete the court ordered services and their case is closed, they often go right back to ther old habits.

Imo
Click to expand...
Agree. It’s the reunification at all costs policy that gets children killed.
 
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