Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #5

[rosesfromangels]

Yes, I’m thinking the exact same thing now and that is so scary . How sad is that , if true those poor boys were missing for months ... and nobody from the families alerted authorities? I don’t care if they were isolating from covid or not ... FaceTime ? Zoom ? I mean come on, if my mother has not seen my children in a month she is raising all h*ll!

moo

While it does seem very odd (to say the least), there could have been an elaborate ruse that was deployed that temporarily held suspicion off. (e.g. talking to the children while talking to relatives on the phone....."Orrin, don't do that." or something similar, inferring the children were there).

This elaborate and ludicrous attempt at deflection has gone on long enough.
I'm waiting to see if anyone is smart enough to cut a plea deal with the D.A.
If those who are responsible for these children disappearing think this will fade in the memories of the community, they are very very wrong. Further, I am seeing a determination in Chief Walker that gives me confidence an arrest is coming. Let us pray so.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Rachelj1]

While it does seem very odd (to say the least), there could have been an elaborate ruse that was deployed that temporarily held suspicion off. (e.g. talking to the children while talking to relatives on the phone....."Orrin, don't do that." or something similar, inferring the children were there).

This elaborate and ludicrous attempt at deflection has gone on long enough.
I'm waiting to see if anyone is smart enough to cut a plea deal with the D.A.
If those who are responsible for these children disappearing think this will fade in the memories of the community, they are very very wrong. Further, I am seeing a determination in Chief Walker that gives me confidence an arrest is coming. Let us pray so.

Amateur opinion and speculation

That is such a great statement! " elaborate and ludicrous attempt at deflection" ...I mean that pretty much SUMS it up doesn't it? Its absolutely crazy, and blows my mind still that no one has cracked. They need more pressure.

MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes, I’m thinking the exact same thing now and that is so scary . How sad is that , if true those poor boys were missing for months ... and nobody from the families alerted authorities? I don’t care if they were isolating from covid or not ... FaceTime ? Zoom ? I mean come on, if my mother has not seen my children in a month she is raising all h*ll!

moo

Well, we don't know when the boys went missing or how often the parents communicated with extended family. Maybe they didn't get along and that's why they moved away from Bakersfield.

Maybe the grandparents asked for all the kids to visit, and they made some excuse as to why the younger kids couldn't go.

We also don't know whether the grandparents physically saw the boys on the 19th or not. The parents could have quickly dropped off the older kids and left. Maybe they were asking questions and that's why they were reported missing two days later.

Imo

 

[fcavanaugh]

Very discouraging to hear they have no physical evidence. So I’m assuming they didn’t find any fingerprints, DNA, etc. of any “abductor(s)” anywhere outside the home. Even if the abductor(s) had on gloves, I would think there should have at least been footprints of the abductor(s) picked up somewhere in the backyard dirt.
I don’t believe the boys walked or ran out the gate either, their little footprints would have shown up walking/running toward the gate. Seems there is plenty of circumstantial evidence, but they can’t prove what happened to the boys with no bodies, no physical evidence.
In no body cases, they need to be able to prove to the DA/Court that the boys are deceased, so I’m afraid this could drag on for awhile, unfortunately.

All things considered including what the neighbors video surveillance showed, the Chief saying they don’t know how the boys got out of the backyard, the dogs not picking up the boys’ scent anywhere outside the home, really does seem that O & O were never out on the patio and/or in the backyard, I’m now leaning more towards something happening to the boys before the move to Cal City in September. If that is the case, they’ve had plenty of time to dispose of evidence.

IMHO

Quoting my own post, regarding the boys going “missing” before the move to Cal City in September, an issue with that theory is the other 4 children saying they last saw O & O on December 19th....
not sure how reliable that info is, but LE has special, skilled forensic investigators experienced in interviewing children, who I’m assuming would have interviewed the other 4 children. If the other children were coached to say something, I’d think skilled forensic investigators would be able to tell they’d been coached. It’s really kind of hard for me to believe all 4 kids would stay on script and give the exact date as to when they last saw O & O, especially if they were interviewed separately, which I’m sure they were. I guess older children might be able to stick to a script. We know TW & JW’s oldest is 10, wish we knew the ages of the other children in between 3 and 10, but again, I find it a little hard to believe that if they were all coached, they would be able to get it by skilled forensic child investigators. I guess anything’s possible, but realistically......

IMHO

ETA-spelling, punctuation

 

[Rachelj1]

Quoting my own post, regarding the boys going “missing” before the move to Cal City in September, the issue with that theory is the other 4 children saying they last saw O & O on December 19th....
not sure how reliable that info is though, iykwim.....

IMHO

Right and I’ve thought about too. The kids could of very well been trained what to say prior. There is no telling. Moo

Honestly the chief never said whether the kids claim is true either . He could already know it’s not true .

 

[Rachelj1]

Well, we don't know when the boys went missing or how often the parents communicated with extended family. Maybe they didn't get along and that's why they moved away from Bakersfield.

Maybe the grandparents asked for all the kids to visit, and they made some excuse as to why the younger kids couldn't go.

We also don't know whether the grandparents physically saw the boys on the 19th or not. The parents could have quickly dropped off the older kids and left. Maybe they were asking questions and that's why they were reported missing two days later.

Imo

I just don’t see how the boys were ever there honestly . I mean no neighbors saw them , they picked up scent inside but that could of been from furniture or clothing , no recent pics...
I mean there is just nothing that says the boys were there . Accept JW and TW. They said they were just like they are claiming the boys walked out of the gate and got picked up in the short time frame he claims he didn’t see them . They are not credible In my opinion.

I wish the chief would elaborate on the lie detectors.... who took them exactly .

moo

 

[rosesfromangels]

That is such a great statement! " elaborate and ludicrous attempt at deflection" ...I mean that pretty much SUMS it up doesn't it? Its absolutely crazy, and blows my mind still that no one has cracked. They need more pressure.
MOO

They will.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MoeInVA]

Right and I’ve thought about too. The kids could of very well been trained what to say prior. There is no telling. Moo

Honestly the chief never said whether the kids claim is true either . He could already know it’s not true .

I agree the chief never said if he believed it was true the siblings saw O and O the 19th. I have thought about this too. Like I said upthread, I don’t believe kids of this age could hold a lie. Especially as @MsBetsy pointed out upthread kids of that age couldn’t handle all of the follow up questions to support the lie.

I agree though that it’s possible that a sibling or siblings said they last saw the boys the 19th in an initial statement, that LE thereafter determined that to be false, but the chief mentioned it anyway for whatever reason. Maybe strategic. Not saying I think that’s what happened, but certainly possible.

Just gonna mention here my little anecdotal personal experience fwiw to illustrate how I could see this happen. When my juvenile relatives were taken into protective custody, my recollection is that at least one of them made an initial statement to police/social worker when police came to the house with social worker ... before being taken from the home. This was weeks before their “forensic interviews.” So for example, if police and a social worker went to grandma’s home on the 21st or 22nd, it is possible that the other boys made an initial statement at that time about their last sighting of missing siblings that was taken down - but this wasn’t really a thorough forensic interview.

so repeating such an initial statement could be the same as repeating the parents report the boys went missing from the yard (even though LE found no evidence the boys were ever in the yard or moved out of the yard).

Just theorizing!

 

[Rachelj1]

I agree the chief never said if he believed it was true the siblings saw O and O the 19th. I have thought about this too. Like I said upthread, I don’t believe kids of this age could hold a lie. Especially as @MsBetsy pointed out upthread kids of that age couldn’t handle all of the follow up questions to support the lie.

I agree though that it’s possible that a sibling or siblings said they last saw the boys the 19th in an initial statement, that LE thereafter determined that to be false, but the chief mentioned it anyway for whatever reason. Maybe strategic. Not saying I think that’s what happened, but certainly possible.

Just gonna mention here my little anecdotal personal experience fwiw to illustrate how I could see this happen. When my juvenile relatives were taken into protective custody, my recollection is that at least one of them made an initial statement to police/social worker when police came to the house with social worker ... before being taken from the home. This was weeks before their “forensic interviews.” So for example, if police and a social worker went to grandma’s home on the 21st or 22nd, it is possible that the other boys made an initial statement at that time about their last sighting of missing siblings that was taken down - but this wasn’t really a thorough forensic interview.

so repeating such an initial statement could be the same as repeating the parents report the boys went missing from the yard (even though LE found no evidence the boys were ever in the yard or moved out of the yard).

Just theorizing!

That makes complete sense, that is most likely what happened IMO! So sorry about your relatives.

 

[PommyMommy]

FEB 15, 2021
California City toddlers still missing after 8 weeks, no suspect or person of interest (turnto23.com)
[...]

"They do not just roam around these patches ... I think definitely would have been picked up or something," Jacqueline West said on Dec. 23.

According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children "non-family abductions" make up for less than 1 percent of the nearly 30,000 missing children cases they assisted law enforcement with in 2020.

[...]

"A stereotypical stranger abduction is very very rare," Klaas told 23ABC News Monday.

[...]

The California City Police Department confirmed Monday, there is still no physical evidence of a crime.

Klaas said he sympathizes with the Kern County community as it took 65 days for authorities to find a major break in his daughter's case.

[...]

JW, Trezell West's oldest brother issued a statement Monday that read in part:

"we are devastated at the disappearance of the boys, pray and believe they will be found safe and returned home. There is someone out there who knows the truth and the official search must continue to find the boys and reveal what occurred. We are advocating that the search remains a priority for the agencies involved. We are also grateful to the thousands of people who have leaned in appropriately to help."

 

[MsBetsy]

I just don’t see how the boys were ever there honestly . I mean no neighbors saw them , they picked up scent inside but that could of been from furniture or clothing , no recent pics...
I mean there is just nothing that says the boys were there . Accept JW and TW. They said they were just like they are claiming the boys walked out of the gate and got picked up in the short time frame he claims he didn’t see them . They are not credible In my opinion.

I wish the chief would elaborate on the lie detectors.... who took them exactly .

moo

Yes, one theory is that the boys never lived there but LE has not confirmed that. They seem to have reason to believe something happened to the boys in that house in order to have searched there so many times since the first warrant. I don't think we can rule out that the boys did live in that house and something happened to them during that time. Imo

 

[Rachelj1]

Yes, one theory is that the boys never lived there but LE has not confirmed that. They seem to have reason to believe something happened to the boys in that house in order to have searched there so many times since the first warrant. I don't think we can rule out that the boys did live in that house and something happened to them during that time. Imo

No I agree definitely not rule it out.

 

[Rachelj1]

FEB 15, 2021
California City toddlers still missing after 8 weeks, no suspect or person of interest (turnto23.com)
[...]

"They do not just roam around these patches ... I think definitely would have been picked up or something," Jacqueline West said on Dec. 23.

According to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children "non-family abductions" make up for less than 1 percent of the nearly 30,000 missing children cases they assisted law enforcement with in 2020.

[...]

"A stereotypical stranger abduction is very very rare," Klaas told 23ABC News Monday.

[...]

The California City Police Department confirmed Monday, there is still no physical evidence of a crime.

Klaas said he sympathizes with the Kern County community as it took 65 days for authorities to find a major break in his daughter's case.

[...]

JW, Trezell West's oldest brother issued a statement Monday that read in part:

"we are devastated at the disappearance of the boys, pray and believe they will be found safe and returned home. There is someone out there who knows the truth and the official search must continue to find the boys and reveal what occurred. We are advocating that the search remains a priority for the agencies involved. We are also grateful to the thousands of people who have leaned in appropriately to help."

I have a lot issues with a lot of things with the extended family but I think they are genuinely letting it known they do care publicly.
Moo

 

[MoeInVA]

Hmm the extended adopted family or uncle state that they “believe they will be found safe and returned home.”
Curious...
1) What makes them believe the boys will be found safe and returned home?

2) Did their PI find something to make them believe that?

3) Did TW and JW or other family members tell them something to make them believe that?

4) What is their theory? (Stranger Abduction? Rehoming? Family abduction?)

5) If that is their belief, what are they doing to publicize the boys’ disappearance and help the search?

 

[fcavanaugh]

Yes, one theory is that the boys never lived there but LE has not confirmed that. They seem to have reason to believe something happened to the boys in that house in order to have searched there so many times since the first warrant. I don't think we can rule out that the boys did live in that house and something happened to them during that time. Imo

If it’s been confirmed the children did in fact last see O & O on the 19th, and *if* something happened to the boys INSIDE the Cal City home some time between 12/19/20-12/21/20, accident or otherwise, it’d still be a major cover-up by the parents whether they caused it or not, and only a short time frame/window to cover tracks before reporting the boys missing. If it was a messy scene, there’d have been clean-up involved, preparing 2 bodies for disposal, and then the actual disposal itself, all without being picked up on cameras, i.e., the loading bodies into vehicle, coming and going to and from wherever they disposed of bodies etc. Also, *if* AP are involved, wonder where they would have disposed of the bodies? Buried them in the desert? Throw out like trash in a dumpster? Or??? (Gosh, I really hate typing any of that).
Was the local landfill searched?

IMHO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

IF the boys were seen by siblings and other family on the 19th, then WHY isn't there clear evidence of them having been in the CC house?

What do the AP say when asked that question?

(asking here rhetorically, of course, not presuming the public knows the answer)

 

[Limecat]

IF the boys were seen by siblings and other family on the 19th, then WHY isn't there clear evidence of them having been in the CC house?

What do the AP say when asked that question?

(asking here rhetorically, of course, not presuming the public knows the answer)

Sadly the AP aren’t speaking at all or answering questions.

 

[MsBetsy]

If it’s been confirmed the children did in fact last see O & O on the 19th, and something happened to the boys INSIDE the Cal City home between 12:19-12/21 (I think it’s pretty much been debunked at this point that the boys were outside and abducted on 12/21), accident or otherwise, we are still looking at a major cover-up by the parents. It’s a short time frame/window they would have had to cover their tracks before reporting the boys missing. If it was a messy scene, there’d have been clean-up, preparing 2 bodies for disposal, and then the actual disposal itself, all without being picked up on cameras. I wonder where they would have disposed of the bodies? Bury them? Throw out in dumpster? Or??? (I hate typing all of that).
Was the local landfill searched?

IMHO

I don't think LE has confirmed the boys were last seen on the 19th. The chief stated that's what the children said but they haven't verified it.

They moved into the house in September, so anything could have happened in the three months before they were reported missing. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

IF the boys were seen by siblings and other family on the 19th, then WHY isn't there clear evidence of them having been in the CC house?

What do the AP say when asked that question?

(asking here rhetorically, of course, not presuming the public knows the answer)

We don't know what evidence LE has. They took several items out of the house. If the boy's DNA was all throughout the house, chances are they were living there. If there was very little DNA, especially from their bedding, toothbrushes, or other items belonging to the boys, chances are they did not live there for very long. Imo

 

[fcavanaugh]

I don't think LE has confirmed the boys were last seen on the 19th. The chief stated that's what the children said but they haven't verified it.

They moved into the house in September, so anything could have happened inside the home during the three months before they were reported missing. Imo

Right @MsBetsy, I agree that something could have happened to the boys inside the home within the 3 month Sept-Dec timeframe. I was addressing only that *if* it had been verified/confirmed that the other children did see the boys last on 12/19/20, and *if* the AP’s are involved, the window would have been very short for covering their tracks before reporting the boys missing.

IMHO