Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #5

[kshultz06082]

I can't come up with an answer that makes sense, about the pics of the boys.
If there were more recent pics on the parents phones, and LE had possession of those phones, I can't figure out why LE didn't use the most recent pics. Only LE can answer that.
The obvious answer is, the pics we've all seen are the most recent pics that were made available to LE.

I have no idea what's being said elsewhere, but in MSM, the bio mom has said she hasn't seen the boys since 12/18 and she doesn't know the Wests. To me, that removes a visit with bio mom from the scenario.

jmo

100% agree with your response. Thank you.

 

[Rachelj1]

100% agree with your response. Thank you.

My first thought was a CPS visit and that's what prompted the 911 story, then I thought that possibly the bio mom was allowed to see them on Christmas Day. I agree with you and Ontario mom though, that it probably had zero to do with a visit with bio family now after everything.

MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Aside from the focus on the APs, what could we sleuth as other possibilities?

What if the AP left the kids outside much longer than reported and they did wander off? Not sure if any wandering children have been spotted on neighbor cams?

Since the APs are still considered Victims, looking for other rational possibilities....

Anyone?

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Rachelj1]

Aside from the focus on the APs, what could we sleuth as other possibilities?

What if the AP left the kids outside much longer than reported and they did wander off? Not sure if any wandering children have been spotted on neighbor cams?

Since the APs are still considered Victims, looking for other rational possibilities....

Anyone?

amateur opinion and speculation

Yes I’m willing to consider other rational possibilities ... maybe they left the boys and when they came back from Bakersfield they were gone??
Moo

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Aside from the focus on the APs, what could we sleuth as other possibilities?

What if the AP left the kids outside much longer than reported and they did wander off? Not sure if any wandering children have been spotted on neighbor cams?

Since the APs are still considered Victims, looking for other rational possibilities....

Anyone?

amateur opinion and speculation

LE said there was no sign the boys ever left the yard. Iirc.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Aside from the focus on the APs, what could we sleuth as other possibilities?

What if the AP left the kids outside much longer than reported and they did wander off? Not sure if any wandering children have been spotted on neighbor cams?

Since the APs are still considered Victims, looking for other rational possibilities....

Anyone?

amateur opinion and speculation

I'm stumped.

 

[MsBetsy]

Aside from the focus on the APs, what could we sleuth as other possibilities?

What if the AP left the kids outside much longer than reported and they did wander off? Not sure if any wandering children have been spotted on neighbor cams?

Since the APs are still considered Victims, looking for other rational possibilities....

Anyone?

amateur opinion and speculation

I'm not sure how far they could have gone without being spotted on surveillance cameras. The neighbors camera looked like it covered the road in both directions. That's not to mention all the cameras we don't know about.

I would think LE also viewed footage from the days and maybe even weeks before the day they disappeared. I wonder if they were over spotted on camera at all.

 

[Rachelj1]

I'm not sure how far they could have gone without being spotted on surveillance cameras. The neighbors camera looked like it covered the road in both directions. That's not to mention all the cameras we don't know about.

I would think LE also viewed footage from the days and maybe even weeks before the day they disappeared. I wonder if they were over spotted on camera at all.

I honestly don’t think they were, I really really don’t. I’m really really starting to truly believe that something stumped them to where it cornered them and they had to do this false abduction claim. I don’t know if they thought that when the adoption was final that they wouldn’t be checked on? Maybe it was just they could move and nobody would ever miss the boys they thought ? They may have told their family that they gave them back to the state because they couldn’t handle them, I mean who knows.

it’s pretty telling that they’re not really doing searches anymore either that we know of.

This is an all around fail I truly believe from CPS.

moo

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm stumped.

I think many of us are. As I was thinking about any rational explanation to align with the AP rendition of events, the only thing I could come up with was that they left them unattended outside for a much longer period of time....and they had time to meet with misfortune.

That being said, that idea is hard to reconcile with the lack of sighting on the neighbors video cams.

I'm trying, really trying to find some alternative explanations. It could be that much of what was told was true....just with a big caveat. IDK...I'm feeling stumped too.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Bbybluz]

Aside from the focus on the APs, what could we sleuth as other possibilities?

What if the AP left the kids outside much longer than reported and they did wander off? Not sure if any wandering children have been spotted on neighbor cams?

Since the APs are still considered Victims, looking for other rational possibilities....

Anyone?

amateur opinion and speculation

OK I’m game lets “sleuth” this one out.....

Let’s say the “story” wasn’t false at all. Let’s say it was their try to within a lie. The truth was it all happened in Bakersfield just as they said minus the wood chucking. Can we find any probable cause for it not to happen there before they moved hence the reason for moving?

 

[MissMalowe]

Random ideas/thoughts:

It's possible that the other children were being truthful when saying that the last day they saw the boys was the 19th, despite the boys not showing up coming/going on camera from the family van that day.

Perhaps the parents left the boys home alone (which is awful, and may be one reason the other children were removed from the home so quickly.)

Why would they have left the boys alone?
Sleeping? Punishment? Just another day, they do it often? General disliking of them/not including them? Injured?

When a child goes "missing" suspiciously and you are leaning towards someone close to them having done something to them, its rarely the first occasion. Usually there is abuse or neglect or something for a period of time beforehand.

Perhaps the boys were punished often or left out of things (like visits to other people's houses or family outings) and left home alone more than once.

This could also explain the lack of recent photos. If you're disconnected/not bonded with a child or are abusing or neglecting them, you may not be as inclined to take photos of them, resulting in only very old photos being provided to LE.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

And there you have it. ABC news has reached out several times to the adoptive parents, the last time through LE, and they do not wish to speak to the media. I doubt we'll hear from them again.

I'm glad they played the definitely definitely part of the interview. This time I watched JW's face and she closed her eyes and looked down each time she said the word definitely. "They definitely, I think...definitely were picked up, or something."

They sure aren't acting as if they think the boys are out there at all.

Am I the only that noticed her about jump out of her skin when that big white coroner looking van drove by, and her expression?

 

[cvaldez1975]

I can understand not giving the pics to the bio family, but what reason would there be, if you truly want these kids found, to not provide LE and the media with recent pics?

And since I'm already posting, I was just wondering if something could be clarified according to CA laws or CA CPS rules... it has been speculated repeatedly that maybe the reason the boys were reported missing when they were was potentially due to an upcoming visit with the bio mother/family. Does CA law/CPS allow visitation for a bio parent that's parental rights were terminated due to either neglect or abuse? Why would they have the children adopted if it was still a-okay for the bios to be part of their lives? I have never heard of an open adoption thru CPS. I had a family member that was fostered then adopted (within our family) and the main obligation of the foster parents and then the adoptive parents was to keep the child safe and out of the care (and reach) of the neglectful/abusive bio mother. Once the bio mother lost all rights and adoption was granted, that is no longer their child whether the adoption was with other bio family or not... Am I missing something?

I can definitely see the date the missing report being filed coinciding with a CPS visit or just the fact that Christmas was coming up and extended adopted family would expect to see them, but I do not believe the bios have or had anything to do with the reason for the date. It might be different in CA, but in our family foster/adoption situation, CPS still did regular visits for the first 18-24 months after adoption to make sure the child was settled in well, if further services were needed, etc. They have 2 sets of adopted children and we know atleast one set is still within that 18-24 month window. So regardless if the middle children are adopted or fostered, I think CPS is still involved... or should be... JMO

we havent been able to figure out whether the other fosters were adopted or not. if the others were still fosters and not adopted, a CPS visit may have been forthcoming.

 

[rosesfromangels]

OK I’m game lets “sleuth” this one out.....

Let’s say the “story” wasn’t false at all. Let’s say it was their try to within a lie. The truth was it all happened in Bakersfield just as they said minus the wood chucking. Can we find any probable cause for it not to happen there before they moved hence the reason for moving?

I always believe there is quite a bit of truth that emerges in any rendition. You may be on to something

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Rachelj1]

You know what the chief never said the boys alive ... I’m hoping that’s what the kids meant ... but all he said was they saw them .

moo

 

[Rachelj1]

OK I’m game lets “sleuth” this one out.....

Let’s say the “story” wasn’t false at all. Let’s say it was their try to within a lie. The truth was it all happened in Bakersfield just as they said minus the wood chucking. Can we find any probable cause for it not to happen there before they moved hence the reason for moving?

They were just too much trouble for them , and they regretted adopting them ? Maybe one of the boys developed a learning disability or illness and as controlling as TW seemed he just wasn’t having it ? I mean I don’t know , I’m just speculating on reasons if they did do something .

moo

 

[Auntie Cipation]

One thought I had, that I've only seen one other person mention briefly, is what if one or more of the older children did something that resulted in either death or disappearance of O&O? Parents might have covered up a crime but not committed the harm themselves.

 

[MoeInVA]

Given the facts of this case (no one seen entering or leaving yard, no recent photos, etc) it is really hard to discuss the possibilities within tos.

I will say that in a study of severe child abuse cases, isolation and starvation were very common (89% of cases) as was beating (93% of cases). One child or set of children is often scapegoated and faces more severe abuse than siblings. Many of the abusers in the study were not biological parents but a degree removed (such as grandparents, step, aunt, moms boyfriend, adoptive). As we have discussed, abused and neglected children are often kept out of school and isolated away from others and if they must go out they are covered up. In the study, malnutrition was not spotted and reported until after death.

It’s a very troubling study with very troubling stories and images so I don’t recommend it, but I know we link our sources here so dropping it down below:
https://www.tdcaa.com/wp-content/uploads/Knox-Torture-as-a-Form-of-Child-Abuse-article.pdf

I originally saw it cited in an article about another case here on websleuths.

 

[mickey2942]

As much as we see random bad things happening on WS, I honestly believe that 99.99% of the time that if those kids had wandered off, someone would have seen two little kids, stopped, and called the police.

I know I would have. Heck, I stop if I see lost dogs and cats. For sure, if I had seen two young children wandering around, I would have stopped.

 

[MsBetsy]

I honestly don’t think they were, I really really don’t. I’m really really starting to truly believe that something stumped them to where it cornered them and they had to do this false abduction claim. I don’t know if they thought that when the adoption was final that they wouldn’t be checked on? Maybe it was just they could move and nobody would ever miss the boys they thought ? They may have told their family that they gave them back to the state because they couldn’t handle them, I mean who knows.

it’s pretty telling that they’re not really doing searches anymore either that we know of.

This is an all around fail I truly believe from CPS.

moo

I doubt the family would believe that they gave the kids back to the state after the adoption was final. It would have been a big red flag and raised too many questions.

I think that LE is not searching because they have no indication of where the boys can be.

What evidence is there that this is an all around fail by CPS? Were the parents not properly vetted? Were there previous allegations of abuse or neglect that they didn't follow up on? What am I missing?