Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #6 *both parents arrested/charged*

[Dre]

Thanks for posting this video link, @Knox !

My key takeaways:

1. Multiple people detained for questioning after refusing to cooperate over the course of this investigation.
   (Sgt Pair disclosed this for the first time last night right before air time to the tenacious Bayan Wang. This was over the course of the investigation so it has not been stated if anyone is CURRENTLY detained.)
2. Bayan Wang had a 30 minute in-person conversation with TW and JW in March. (Mostly off record, they declined to give even a written statement to dispel rumors and their justification was that even a written statement every word would be analyzed. They *apparently* told Bayan they have searched on their own and have their own suspicions about who might be involved.)
3. Bayan mentioned Websleuths! He sort of lumped us in with the YouTubers (We are better than that, B!), but I think it was fair in the context of a lot of folks questioning and being suspicious of TW and JW and offering them a chance to respond. (Just to be clear, Bayan, we at Websleuths do not attack and nor do we traffic in rumors. We are all about analyzing facts, interviews, and evidence. )
   JMO- I sure hope TW and JW will take Bayan up on his offer to make a statement. They are right it will be analyzed, but more importantly it will make news, and every news story is an opportunity to get the boys’ faces out there for potential tips. If they really care about finding the boys, they should have been making regular statements all along - the kids come first. Their justification provided to Bayan is not a good one. Ignore the critics. Put the kids ahead of your pride and egos for goodness sake!

Bayan mentioned websleuths to TW and JW??
Maybe they’ll hop on and become VIs
Wonder how much they’ve read through. Jmo

 

[Lusitana]

Thank you @AgeofAquaruis for posting this update from Bayan.

Bayan Wang 23ABC

JUST IN: While multiple people have "voluntarily" cooperated with authorities in the missing California City boys case, the Bakersfield Police Department confirmed Wednesday that investigators have had to detain several people who were not willfully cooperating with the investigation. Three-year-old Orson West and 4-year-old Orrin West were reported missing on Dec. 21, 2020 in California City by their adoptive parents.

I don't get it though. How does one get detained at some point and then gets to go home? I'm assuming that's happened but I'm not sure because the information is all over the place.

 

[Kismet7]

I don't get it though. How does one get detained at some point and then gets to go home? I'm assuming that's happened but I'm not sure because the information is all over the place.

If they can't charge you with anything, they can't hold you indefinitely. This is why LE sometimes will charge a criminal with a lesser crime to get them in jail and then try to build evidence for a bigger charge. They either have to charge you with a crime or release you and the fact they were released tells me they either aren't the prime suspects or the detained people were the prime suspects, but LE still doesn't have enough to make charges stick.

 

[Dre]

I think they’re hoping for someone to crack, they’re on the right track but not enough evidence to make an arrest stick. Whoever is not cooperative likely has something they’re hiding, so they have to keep trying. Moo

 

[nyvictoria]

Thank you @AgeofAquaruis for posting this update from Bayan.

Bayan Wang 23ABC

JUST IN: While multiple people have "voluntarily" cooperated with authorities in the missing California City boys case, the Bakersfield Police Department confirmed Wednesday that investigators have had to detain several people who were not willfully cooperating with the investigation. Three-year-old Orson West and 4-year-old Orrin West were reported missing on Dec. 21, 2020 in California City by their adoptive parents.

I’m not at all surprised about this news. I wish there hadn’t been so much trouble stirred up by the YouTubers because a little publicity about who is not cooperating might shake the trees. Where are the boys??

 

[Seattle1]

I don't get it though. How does one get detained at some point and then gets to go home? I'm assuming that's happened but I'm not sure because the information is all over the place.

Detentions and Arrests

An officer's “brief and cursory” holding and questioning someone is a detention. An example is a cop stopping someone who is behaving suspiciously in order to ask a few questions. The suspect isn't free to leave, but he also isn't under arrest, at least until the officer develops probable cause.

48 hours

The law in the state of California is clear. You are only allowed to be held without charges for a total of 48 hours or less..

How Long Can You Be Held by Police Without A Charge?

 

[Seattle1]

Our schools just recently opened and I'm seeing more children out in my neighborhood. It's so shattering to think about a 3 and 4-year-old vanishing from their parents' care. If only they'd just give them up. They didn't leave that yard on their own. MOO

 

[Bopit]

Hate that this one's still going. I really thought this would be open-and-shut.... Hoping we find these babies soon.

 

[MoeInVA]

Hate that this one's still going. I really thought this would be open-and-shut.... Hoping we find these babies soon.

Agree. The FBI came in so early. I had high hopes for a quick resolution.

My primary interest in these cases is learning lessons for prevention. The fact is that every family needs watchful eyes. It’s hard when you are estranged or long distance. But we all have a responsibility to the kids in our families, our professional interactions, and even in our neighborhoods to be watchful. To do all we can to notice signs of neglect or abuse. To do SOMETHING even if we simply don’t see them ever. Which is hard. And scary. Inviting in police for a wellness check sometimes ends in terrible consequences. Inviting in CPS sometimes ends in unnecessary and terrible consequences. But we have to do something. Especially with red flags like injuries, illness, excuses for not seeing kids or seeing their home, retreating from society, home schooling etc.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Because LE did all that digging early on, it certainly would seem as if they had a strong lead that the children were deceased and buried. That was a lot of digging!

I still think there is an equal possibility that the children were sold. I don’t want to even speculate for what purpose. This is why financial forensics are so important in this case. It’s just very interesting timing that the purchase of the house and the children missing is in close-ish proximity. We don’t even know when they were legit last seen.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[NuttMegg]

I haven't had time to follow this case, can anyone tell me a quick version of (or a link to) how they adopted the boys without the mother knowing beforehand? Wouldn't she have had to sign off on that? Thanks ahead of time. still marooned on Watts' Island.

 

[Seattle1]

I haven't had time to follow this case, can anyone tell me a quick version of (or a link to) how they adopted the boys without the mother knowing beforehand? Wouldn't she have had to sign off on that? Thanks ahead of time. still marooned on Watts' Island.

Quick version is losing parental rights and the adoption all happened with the birth mother's knowledge. And birth fathers also notified.

 

[FLmom777]

Point #2. Reminds me of OJ saying he would look for Nicole’s killer....

Big fan of Bayan’s and Pearla. Excellent journalists/reporters.

Amateur opinion and speculation

And Casey Anthony searching for Cayley.

 

[NuttMegg]

Quick version is losing parental rights and the adoption all happened with the birth mother's knowledge. And birth fathers also notified.

Thanks.

 

[PommyMommy]

I haven't had time to follow this case, can anyone tell me a quick version of (or a link to) how they adopted the boys without the mother knowing beforehand? Wouldn't she have had to sign off on that? Thanks ahead of time. still marooned on Watts' Island.

Hi NuttMegg! Just wanted to point you toward the media thread in case you weren't aware of it. Nice to see you here. MOO

CA - CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE - NO DISCUSSION (websleuths.com)

 

[NuttMegg]

Hi NuttMegg! Just wanted to point you toward the media thread in case you weren't aware of it. Nice to see you here. MOO

CA - CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE - NO DISCUSSION (websleuths.com)

I can't look at it or I'll get hooked. I just stumbled on an interview that was painting what came across as a bizarre situation where an adoption seemed to occur without the bio mother knowing about it, but now I see it's not true. But it sure seems sad, I hope it doesn't turn out to be like that youtuber who "rehomed" ( her words) her little adopted foreign-born child once the novelty wore off for viewers and clicks declined.

 

[cvaldez1975]

i do believe ryan dean was not well versed how it all worked.

 

[Deanna426]

Agree. The FBI came in so early. I had high hopes for a quick resolution.

My primary interest in these cases is learning lessons for prevention. The fact is that every family needs watchful eyes. It’s hard when you are estranged or long distance. But we all have a responsibility to the kids in our families, our professional interactions, and even in our neighborhoods to be watchful. To do all we can to notice signs of neglect or abuse. To do SOMETHING even if we simply don’t see them ever. Which is hard. And scary. Inviting in police for a wellness check sometimes ends in terrible consequences. Inviting in CPS sometimes ends in unnecessary and terrible consequences. But we have to do something. Especially with red flags like injuries, illness, excuses for not seeing kids or seeing their home, retreating from society, home schooling etc.

I would like to respectfully say as a homeschooling parent of 6 children, homeschooling is not a red flag for abuse.

 

[ValhallaWolves]

I would like to respectfully say as a homeschooling parent of 6 children, homeschooling is not a red flag for abuse.

I agree, homeschooling itself is not a red flag, but the kids with spotty attendance, suspected abuse, etc who are pulled to “homeschool” definitely is. I feel like homeschoolers are treated really unfairly in a lot of places, but they’re unfortunately often lumped in with this type of “homeschooling”

 

[Laughing]

I agree, homeschooling itself is not a red flag, but the kids with spotty attendance, suspected abuse, etc who are pulled to “homeschool” definitely is. I feel like homeschoolers are treated really unfairly in a lot of places, but they’re unfortunately often lumped in with this type of “homeschooling”

Agree with the validity of homeschooling. However, homeschool families that I know say that minimal oversight to protect children could be done without major intrusion.

Adopted, "homeschooled," missing/presumed deceased:

Adam Herrman:

KS - KS - Adam Herrman, 11, Towanda, 1999

just one example, unfortunately we could generate a long list.

jmho ymmv lrr