Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #1

[agilbe]

Then factor in that judging by her photograph and interests, she was healthy and physically active. In short, she was not say, a long time smoker with a sedentary lifestyle who decided to hike the Grand Canyon on a whim. Wow, these horrible deaths have caused me to re evaluate my own hiking hobby. I still plan to do desert hikes, but I am going to err on the side of caution.

I know what you mean. I am a born and raised desert rat. Cases like these remind me of the do's and don'ts of hiking the desert, even now when our temps are in the low triple digits and we are in monsoon season.

 

[GigTu]

What I'm trying to say... if the night before they partied ... never made it back to airbnb then they could have been under the influence.... ended the night ( which yes was the next day) at JT. MDA, acid, shrooms all are about 10 hours ( shrooms a bit less). It's more about daylight hours and not am and pm when I was stating party ended there from night before.

There is zero to found those sorts of speculations on. Assuming they were on drugs is a giant leap, and quite unfair. JMO

 

[FL Wannabe]

Again, bringing this link forward: http://www.jttortoisetelegraph.com/...9/Couple-Missing-in-Joshua-Tree-National-Park

The link is the source for speculation of potential drug usage QUOTE: Some observers have raised the question as to whether the two, who were going to the park to celebrate Rachel's birthday, may have planned to use hallucinogenics during their time inside the park. While we have no knowledge that this is likely or even possible, it would help explain aspects to their disappearance. It would also be partially similar to the 2004 Eric Sears/Ben Fogelstrom case of July, 2004, when the two apparently went to the park to take jimson weed (datura).

So, it is something to take under consideration, and not unfair to mention. Moo, imho, etc.

 

[Force Ten]

From the linked page. I wonder if this was the routes of the search helicopters or searchers themselves.




Thought I'd point this out.

 

[thekarmabus]

How is it unfair and a giant leap? I respect your knowledge on cases however I said nothing that was not stated in the media releases.

"According to JOSAR, Joshua Tree Search & Rescue, the couple is believed to have been missing since around 6 a.m. Friday. JOSAR was called into action by 4 p.m. and had trackers processing the tracks near the couple's vehicle. They believe to have found the couple's tracks heading north into a canyon and several teams were deployed with no results. Other information indicates the couple may not have spent Thursday night at their Airbnb rental." And... "observers have raised the question as to whether the two, who were going to the park to celebrate Rachel's birthday, may have planned to use hallucinogenics during their time inside the park. While we have no knowledge that this is likely or even possible, it would help explain aspects to their disappearance."

 

[AffirmationChick]

From the linked page. I wonder if this was the routes of the search helicopters or searchers themselves.

View attachment 121403


Thought I'd point this out.

View attachment 121404

Nice catch! Using this map, it doesn't look good:

(Source: https://www.nps.gov/jotr/planyourvisit/upload/10-IndianCove.pdf)

You'll notice the small red 22 and 23 that can orient you between maps. I think the search route lines are hiding the small 14, but the tracks would be around that area. Not that far off trail but in a lot of canyons and rock formations.

This blog post (https://backpackers.com/spring-hikes-the-maze-loop-in-joshua-tree-national-park-california/) also points out that the park doesn't even officially acknowledge this hike in its listings. It also warns people to let rangers know they're going out there beforehand. If only.

Not to be a flip flopper, but that update makes it easier to believe they did just get lost. I still find it so so hard to believe they have essentially found no trace of them, but knowing they were there a whole 24 hours before we've been thinking means they were wandering well over a day and a half before SAR started. That's a lot of time for a lot to go wrong and a game changer.


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[GigTu]

From the linked page. I wonder if this was the routes of the search helicopters or searchers themselves.

Thought I'd point this out.

If I'm reading those correctly, it seems SAR searched the perimeters around every peak, but didn't go up to the top of the peaks themselves.

The loop that says "2 sets of tracks" was ALMOST to the highway. If only they had continued north..... *sigh*

 

[Normancita]

I'm sensing foul play.

Ive read through every post in this thread and I feel something nefarious happened ( not accidental).


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[Force Ten]

Nice catch! Using this map, it doesn't look good:

(Source: https://www.nps.gov/jotr/planyourvisit/upload/10-IndianCove.pdf)

You'll notice the small red 22 and 23 that can orient you between maps. I think the search route lines are hiding the small 14, but the tracks would be around that area. Not that far off trail but in a lot of canyons and rock formations.

This blog post (https://backpackers.com/spring-hikes-the-maze-loop-in-joshua-tree-national-park-california/) also points out that the park doesn't even officially acknowledge this hike in its listings. It also warns people to let rangers know they're going out there beforehand. If only.

Not to be a flip flopper, but that update makes it easier to believe they did just get lost. I still find it so so hard to believe they have essentially found no trace of them, but knowing they were there a whole 24 hours before we've been thinking means they were wandering well over a day and a half before SAR started. That's a lot of time for a lot to go wrong and a game changer.


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Not sure what you mean about red 22 and 23? If I knew what map they were using I could be sure where it's at. I'm pretty certain that the "?" on the trail is where they found them. Also the squiggly lines seem to be trackers on foot and the straighter lines, helicopters. The trackers stayed to the trails and choppers the open areas. It does look like they hit every possible route. But it looks like the mark for the "two set of tracks" seem to be just before the North View Trail and this coincides with the report stating that the tracks seemed to be heading into a canyon heading north. But they didn't find anything in that canyon. I could understand searchers frustration after so many days, and by this map alone it seems this was all done in one day, July 30th. I'm surprised they let family members come out and help in the search as this is rarely allowed but still very comforting.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

It struck me that even if they had lost the path or lost sight of the road by going behind an outcrop of rocks, wouldn't it be possible for them to find their way back to the road by walking towards the sound of traffic on Park Boulevard? Wouldn't other people have parked up at the trailhead or along the road if only to take photos?

From memory of being in the desert in Jordan, sound does carry further than you expect simply because there are few other sounds to drown it out.

Also, the prevailing wind would be from the west so it would carry traffic sound eastwards towards the trail.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Thinking about this some more.

Even if they didn't have a map and compass surely at least one of them had a watch, in which case they should have been able to calculate the direction of due south at midday (subtracting an hour for summertime if appropriate). They would then have known that the road was west or south west of their position and could make their way towards it.

It seems very strange to me that these two experienced hikers could not have done this had they simply been lost.

 

[thekarmabus]

It struck me that even if they had lost the path or lost sight of the road by going behind an outcrop of rocks, wouldn't it be possible for them to find their way back to the road by walking towards the sound of traffic on Park Boulevard? Wouldn't other people have parked up at the trailhead or along the road if only to take photos?

From memory of being in the desert in Jordan, sound does carry further than you expect simply because there are few other sounds to drown it out.

Also, the prevailing wind would be from the west so it would carry traffic sound eastwards towards the trail.

One might be able to see the road however body is too exhausted to make it . I believe Edward Rosenthal could see a light from the roadway when he was lost however knew that with heat exhaustion and dehydration there was no possible way to reach it. SARS did eventually find him alive after.6 days .


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[MelmothTheLost]

One might be able to see the road however body is too exhausted to make it .

So if they just sat there and died within sight of the road, why would they not have been found by now?

I believe Edward Rosenthal could see a light from the roadway when he was lost however knew that with heat exhaustion and dehydration there was no possible way to reach it. SARS did eventually find him alive after.6 days .

Yes - found alive. Even if he's been found dead at least he would have been found.

There seem to be too many fundamental failures in this case, considering they were experienced hikers.

Is it at all possible that they might have interrupted some sort of illegal activity when they pulled into the trailhead car park?

 

[GigTu]

Maybe one slipped into a crevice and got stuck, and the other then fell trying to help. Maybe the heat and lack of water removed all possible chance of survival after 2-3 days of walking, and they crawled into a cave. Maybe a wild cat with babes chased and got them. Maybe they did walk towards the lights on the highway, but ran out of steam and succumbed to the elements in the open desert and just haven't been spotted. Maybe maybe maybe. We really do not know anything right now.

 

[GigTu]

This map was difficult to read, so I split out the different SAR tracks by color.

Do you suppose the 2 sets of tracks and ? are where they think the pair were lost and going in circles?

If so, and you were able to put yourself in their place, where do you think they would logically walk towards? If towards a populated area, could they have met with foul play by a local to that area?

1 inch = 3684 feet
Current Track = Jul 30

 

[thekarmabus]

This map was difficult to read, so I split out the different SAR tracks by color.

Do you suppose the 2 sets of tracks and ? are where they think the pair were lost and going in circles?

If so, and you were able to put yourself in their place, where do you think they would logically walk towards? If towards a populated area, could they have met with foul play by a local to that area?

1 inch = 3684 feet
Current Track = Jul 30

Between QQ and SS. I doubt foul play by a local in the park. It's no mans land out there.

Maybe someone can explain phone ping to me. Is a ping always there or would it be if he tried to call out? Someone call in? Where was her phone? It would seem very odd if she didn't have her device on her while hiking. If she did have her phone they could trace location perhaps through the iPad she left in the room under find my devices. It would at min show last spot phone was in ( assuming she had an iPhone).
I'm torn with this case. Hikers are usually located or at very least things found by them left along the way will turn up.I still have that feeling they unfortunately made a mistake and hiked in under the influence. Truly saddens me.


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[MelmothTheLost]

Maybe one slipped into a crevice and got stuck, and the other then fell trying to help. Maybe the heat and lack of water removed all possible chance of survival after 2-3 days of walking, and they crawled into a cave. <snip> Maybe they did walk towards the lights on the highway, but ran out of steam and succumbed to the elements in the open desert and just haven't been spotted. Maybe maybe maybe. We really do not know anything right now.

All of these are entirely possible, BUT with a population of vultures, plus ravens and other corvids, in the park their bodies should have been attracting a lot of attention.

https://www.nps.gov/jotr/learn/nature/birds.htm

Maybe a wild cat with babes chased and got them.

From what I've read, 2 adults should be able to drive off a mountain lion. In addition to which Joseph was reported to carry a knife when hiking. Could a mountain lion drag away an adult? Rachel maybe, but what about Joseph?

Caves? Maybe. It would make sense for them to take shelter in a cave if they were in trouble. However I'd expect the searchers to know the locations of all of them and to have checked them all by now.

Dunno. It doesn't seem to make sense. If they simply got lost, all of their experience and training seems to have gone out of the window.

I asked this a day or two ago but nobody answered - do we know what they were wearing when they set off that morning?

 

[thekarmabus]

All of these are entirely possible, BUT with a population of vultures, plus ravens and other corvids, in the park their bodies should have been attracting a lot of attention.

https://www.nps.gov/jotr/learn/nature/birds.htm



From what I've read, 2 adults should be able to drive off a mountain lion. In addition to which Joseph was reported to carry a knife when hiking. Could a mountain lion drag away an adult? Rachel maybe, but what about Joseph?

Caves? Maybe. It would make sense for them to take shelter in a cave if they were in trouble. However I'd expect the searchers to know the locations of all of them and to have checked them all by now.

Dunno. It doesn't seem to make sense. If they simply got lost, all of their experience and training seems to have gone out of the window.

I asked this a day or two ago but nobody answered - do we know what they were wearing when they set off that morning?

No we do not. From reading the media release they were not sure they even made it back to airbnb the. Ugh this before. Has anyone tracked where they went the night before? There must be some trail of what they did and who they were with ( if anyone).


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[thekarmabus]

Apologies. Troubles lately with site allowing exits after posting. Was to state the night before


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[MzOpinion8d]

Between QQ and SS. I doubt foul play by a local in the park. It's no mans land out there.

Maybe someone can explain phone ping to me. Is a ping always there or would it be if he tried to call out? Someone call in? Where was her phone? It would seem very odd if she didn't have her device on her while hiking. If she did have her phone they could trace location perhaps through the iPad she left in the room under find my devices. It would at min show last spot phone was in ( assuming she had an iPhone).
I'm torn with this case. Hikers are usually located or at very least things found by them left along the way will turn up.I still have that feeling they unfortunately made a mistake and hiked in under the influence. Truly saddens me.


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Phones "ping" on towers to communicate that the phone is in the proximity of that tower so calls will be routed through the closest tower for the best connection.

Phones send the pings out frequently so that if the phone changes location, the tower will change too, again to allow for the best connection.

Sometimes if one tower has too much traffic, calls will be routed through another tower that is farther away, usually the previous tower that the phone pinged on.

Phone companies are able to ping phones from towers, also. Law enforcement is able to use this to attempt to locate people who could be in danger.

The ping from the cell phone in this situation means that at the time of that ping, the phone was able to communicate with the tower. No one would have to be using the phone for this to happen since the phone is always seeking a tower connection for service.

In theory, if the areas in the park where cell phone reception is present are known, this could help narrow down the possible location of the missing couple. However in reality, it probably doesn't really narrow it down by much.

The phone's battery will drain much faster in areas where connection is spotty due to the constant search for a signal.