Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #1

[Elainera]

North View Trail. This the possible trail they may have gone through. Beautiful but you can see how unforgiving and how it beat down one's determination if lost out there without water and exhausted.

[video=youtube;pT_ctbgubRE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT_ctbgubRE[/video]

Thanks!

So, looking at the map it seems if the two were actually in that canyon they found the footprints in, there's not many directions to go - only southeast, southwest and north. If they took one of the southern routes, they should have been found by now, right?

snipped for focus

yannick, when you look at the video above, imagine walking or riding as a searcher through this vast area, how easy it would be to miss someone hiding and lying down behind a rock or shrub. Even from a helicopter they might not be visible as they wouldn't be out in the open but under or behind rocks or vegetation.

They might have been already dead or unconscious when searchers reached the spot they were at, and were unable to respond.

 

[thekarmabus]

I have two questions that probably sound stupid for experienced hikers, but here goes:

It was said that they haven't found anything left behind by Rachel and Joseph, like food wrappers, bottles, or any other discarded item. Now I'm wondering, there are 1000s of visitors coming to this park all the time, even now in the summer heat. Surely at least some people will leave some trash behind or lose something, for example a piece of clothing, along their hike. And likely searchers have come across those items during their search. How do they know that they were definitely not left behind by Rachel and Joseph?

Second question is, how do they know the two sets of footprints are Rachel's and Joseph's and were not made by other hikers? Because the dogs were alerting on them?

The search and rescue was out the next day . I can say that when hiking in national parks you don't see much garbage. Yes, perhaps on scenic trails which are pull in, walk on a trail for 10 minutes.. view then leave. Most hikers are very respectable of the parks. It looks like In the photo they measured the footprints. Side by side prints with measurements the same to fit the two. It's not 100% but highly probable. It is bothersome though that NOTHING was left. They were experienced hikers. Leaving arrows with rocks in sand, finding soft stone and arrow drawing on boulders. Maybe they ventured way off and did these things but searchers didn't find it. More than likely they didn't even know they were walking in circles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yannick_1709]

snipped for focus

yannick, when you look at the video above, imagine walking or riding as a searcher through this vast area, how easy it would be to miss someone hiding and lying down behind a rock or shrub. Even from a helicopter they might not be visible as they wouldn't be out in the open but under or behind rocks or vegetation.

They might have been already dead or unconscious when searchers reached the spot they were at, and were unable to respond.

Yes, you're right, as a European I'm not really familiar with these types of areas, but I still think they rather would have continued further north as they probably came from the south. Especially if you look at the north route, it has some very remote and steep canyons/washes which aren't even official hiking trails. I guess those must be even more rugged than the terrain in the video.

 

[Elainera]

Here's another video of the Maze Loop area. I mean, just look at all these rocks and boulders! It's impossible to search this area completely imo. It's very likely searchers have already walked within 100ft of the two and have not seen them. By the same token any signs they might have made with rocks or sticks and whatnot, might have been missed. just moo

[video=youtube;Vwqq85IUFGI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwqq85IUFGI[/video]

 

[xtreme626]

someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the two are not attending CSUF this coming fall.. i also find that interesting because on rachel's facebook, you can see that she graduates in 2019 (based on one of the groups she joined), so she technically still has 2 more years left of school. i also suspect foul play.. maybe someone abducted them right as they pulled up. being that the Mexico border is about 100 miles away to the south.. who knows?

 

[Force Ten]

I have two questions that probably sound stupid for experienced hikers, but here goes:

It was said that they haven't found anything left behind by Rachel and Joseph, like food wrappers, bottles, or any other discarded item. Now I'm wondering, there are 1000s of visitors coming to this park all the time, even now in the summer heat. Surely at least some people will leave some trash behind or lose something, for example a piece of clothing, along their hike. And likely searchers have come across those items during their search. How do they know that they were definitely not left behind by Rachel and Joseph?

Second question is, how do they know the two sets of footprints are Rachel's and Joseph's and were not made by other hikers? Because the dogs were alerting on them?

These were experienced hikers and she a long time Girl Scout. So if they were respectful, they wouldn't discard food wrappers and whatnot. They would practice "Pack it in, pack it out". So I don't get how people assume they would find trash left around from them. Whenever I hike, wrappers, soda cans, bottles, cigarette butts all come back with me. Any time I leave something behind would be in established campgrounds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AffirmationChick]

These were experienced hikers and she a long time Girl Scout. So if they were respectful, they wouldn't discard food wrappers and whatnot. They would practice "Pack it in, pack it out". So I don't get how people assume they would find trash left around from them. Whenever I hike, wrappers, soda cans, bottles, cigarette butts all come back with me. Any time I leave something behind would be in established campgrounds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would expect it to be more like clothing. Dehydration and heat stroke will make you do some crazy things near the end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Force Ten]

I would expect it to be more like clothing. Dehydration and heat stroke will make you do some crazy things near the end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, and if they did this they were probably pretty deep into wherever they were going and that would be why searchers didn't find anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Elainera]

I wonder if they tried to get to the campground but missed it and went passed it and are now on the east of it. I don't think searches were done on that side?

 

[Force Ten]

I decided to make a new post instead of making an edit of the older one. Here you go:

I will try to keep the map updated, so criticism/new information is welcome.

I hope I'm not violating any rules here, but I can't find anything about linking to filehosting sites.
Edit: Ok, here the links:

• https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cnCYV0wQ0sMgHoMuy3JAEwtSxBQ - This is the map on Google Maps and will open a Google Maps page, although I would advise you to use the file below, as Maps doesn't allow overlays.
• https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4V0ri-0rHPdeHlGeU94UTNRb2M (18 MB)- Here the .kmz-file (download). To open it you will need either Google Earth on your PC/Mac or Google Chrome.

To open in the file in Chrome, go to https://earth.google.com/web/ and start the web Version. Klick on the bookmark sign and choose "import KML-file". Upload the KMZ and you're good to go.

Explanation of the contents:

• Car: probable path after entering the park to the parking space
• Topos: two topographical maps of the area (taken from the JTNP site)
• 2 sets of tracks: the found tracks
• trails: the trails in that area.
• verizon tower: coverage from a Verizon tower in that area (found on http://www.otherhand.org)

Again superb job. Between you and GigTu, you make a great team.

Some adjustments though (couldn't see clearly from my phone).

In your map, I believe you have the tracks too deep into the canyon. I believe they were located on the actual Maze Loop trail.

Black arrow is indicated where I believe they were.







You have them up here where the blue arrow is..




Or am I just seeing it differently?

 

[yannick_1709]

Again superb job. Between you and GigTu, you make a great team.

Some adjustments though (couldn't see clearly from my phone).

In your map, I believe you have the tracks too deep into the canyon. I believe they were located on the actual Maze Loop trail.

Black arrow is indicated where I believe they were.

You have them up here where the blue arrow is..

Or am I just seeing it differently?

Let me just check, I used the version of that picture with the coordinates showing, and I'm pretty sure it's there:

Here you can clearly see it being between 571000 E and 572000 E and it is between 3773000 N and 3774000 N (the coordinates used here are called Mercator System, as seen on the bottom of the sheet.

As seen here, I've put it at 571292 E and 3773662 N, where the terrain looks like it could make these search routes possible (there are 2 washes or canyons coming from the south and joining into one). It's possible, that I made a mistake somewhere, but I can't see one.

 

[Force Ten]

Let me just check, I used the version of that picture with the coordinates showing, and I'm pretty sure it's there:

Here you can clearly see it being between 571000 E and 572000 E and it is between 3773000 N and 3774000 N (the coordinates used here are called Mercator System, as seen on the bottom of the sheet.

As seen here, I've put it at 571292 E and 3773662 N, where the terrain looks like it could make these search routes possible (there are 2 washes or canyons coming from the south and joining into one). It's possible, that I made a mistake somewhere, but I can't see one.

Well you are smarter than the average bear lol. I can't argue with numbers and I'm not familiar with this sort of mapping (nor am I an expert of mapping in general). But I'm not feeling it. I wish we had the actual map they were using without all the red. But I think I finally found one of use. Until later.

:cheers::websleuther:


*UPDATED* After comparing to significant landmarks I find Yannick's findings are 100% accurate, the tracks are where she/he has placed them.

 

[Force Ten]

Because I wanted us to be on the right path,(and not an attempt to discredit) as I said I checked Yannick's mapping (or JOSAR's) to the Topo that JOSAR used and some other maps. Here is why it's accurate.

The tracks in comparison to where the boundaries are on the Topo map are placed slightly above where Quail Springs rd enter the park (underlined) and where the wilderness boundary meets the park boundary (circled).




What is especially disturbing is the amount of distance they traveled. No way to know if searchers trekked through canyon leading to Indian Cove but it doesn't appear they did on July 30th.It looks as though they only did a single fly over.

 

[Force Ten]

If they kept heading north, their tracks were about a mile from Base Line rd and the community of Panorama Heights.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/P...1512adb!8m2!3d34.1241718!4d-116.2208414?hl=en

 

[yannick_1709]

Maybe they went up north and then turned east (for whatever reason) towards Indian Cove as Force Ten said. The next track coming on that side is Boyscout Trail, which is about 1.6 miles as the crow flies. But even that is a pretty remote area, which is why there are no hikers on that trail either when it reaches three-digit temperatures. That could be where they got lost. We'd have to see the searches done in the past few days to know for sure.

 

[GigTu]

I decided to make a new post instead of making an edit of the older one. Here you go:

• https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cnCYV0wQ0sMgHoMuy3JAEwtSxBQ - This is the map on Google Maps and will open a Google Maps page, although I would advise you to use the file below, as Maps doesn't allow overlays.
• https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4V0ri-0rHPdeHlGeU94UTNRb2M (18 MB)- Here the .kmz-file (download). To open it you will need either Google Earth on your PC/Mac or Google Chrome.

• yannick, can you please also incorporate a couple of town names & highway 62, as well as the below water, paved road, and population features into your map?
  

  
  
  https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0912709,-116.1709318,18z/data=!3m1!1e3
  
  

  

 

[GigTu]

Looks like they started a 2 days ago to raise money for Rachel and Joseph's parents, so they can continue to search.

 

[Jenjen37]

Whats the blue dots?

• yannick, can you please also incorporate a couple of town names & highway 62, as well as the below water, paved road, and population features into your map?
  

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Force Ten]

Whats the blue dots?



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I'm guessing natural water tanks? Barker dam is right there as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jenjen37]

Thank you Force Ten.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk