Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #1

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As you can see here, there are three water reservoirs in the area, but far away from their location. Before reaching those, they would have been able to see a paved road or the Keys Ranch, which should have frequent visitors (as it is a historical site).
Apparently, all washes in the area are dried out in the summer, so there's little to no water anywhere. Even springs, which are also far away are mostly dry or have dried out so much, they are not usable.

It is getting pretty late here, so I'll head to bed now. If there's something more I should change/add, don't hesitate to ask, I'll do it as soon as I have some time tomorrow.

Edit: I just realized there's some paved road not marked at Indian Cove, but It'll have to wait.
 
For the heck of it, I'm posting pics of Barker Dam.

Barker dam.jpg
Barker dam 2.jpg

It really only is like this after some good rains.

I've been thinking about that long canyon to Indian Cove. It is quite deep from the looks of it and may be impassable, which would be reason enough for searchers not to go there.
 
I live in the area and hike that area of the park frequently (never in the summer) and decided to offer my thoughts. My apologies if any or all of this is redundant. There is no water in that area that I'm aware of. Even barker dam (which isn't close enough anyways) can be dry as a bone in august. We did get some brief rain a day or two after they went missing but hardly enough to sustain you in these temperatures. That is something to consider as well. There is 100 degrees, and then 100 degrees in the mojave desert. The intensity of the sun is downright brutal this time of year. 20 minutes of yard work can dehydrate you. Wherever they went, it wasn't far after their water ran out.

The thing that's bothering me is that this area of the park is open and within view of 29 palms, yucca valley and Joshua tree if you climb high enough. Also, as has been covered, you hit a road in an a few miles in any direction. So SAR has executed multiple grid searches including helicopters, which I assume have FLIR capabilities, in a relatively manageable area. The local community is completely baffled as to how they haven't been found. IMO You couldn't hide from SAR if you tried in that area of JT UNLESS you went underground or under boulders somehow. Even at that how do you not leave tracks or a scent? Just makes no sense. There was a case nearby in 2010 where a hiker named bill ewasko went missing and was never found. Locals still scratch their heads about that one. Can't imagine TWO people evading search dogs and helicopters for 10 days. I have read about missing hikers who walk ridiculous, unexpected distances, thus evading SAR. But it just isn't possible with proximity to roads and lack of water. Something just doesn't make sense. Local SAR is convinced they are in there. A lot of locals think they left the park. I hope they are found. Can't imagine what their loved ones are going through.
 
NWhiker said:
I live in the area and hike that area of the park frequently (never in the summer) and decided to offer my thoughts. My apologies if any or all of this is redundant. There is no water in that area that I'm aware of. Even barker dam (which isn't close enough anyways) can be dry as a bone in august. We did get some brief rain a day or two after they went missing but hardly enough to sustain you in these temperatures. That is something to consider as well. There is 100 degrees, and then 100 degrees in the mojave desert. The intensity of the sun is downright brutal this time of year. 20 minutes of yard work can dehydrate you. Wherever they went, it wasn't far after their water ran out.

The thing that's bothering me is that this area of the park is open and within view of 29 palms, yucca valley and Joshua tree if you climb high enough. Also, as has been covered, you hit a road in an a few miles in any direction. So SAR has executed multiple grid searches including helicopters, which I assume have FLIR capabilities, in a relatively manageable area. The local community is completely baffled as to how they haven't been found. IMO You couldn't hide from SAR if you tried in that area of JT UNLESS you went underground or under boulders somehow. Even at that how do you not leave tracks or a scent? Just makes no sense. There was a case nearby in 2010 where a hiker named bill ewasko went missing and was never found. Locals still scratch their heads about that one. Can't imagine TWO people evading search dogs and helicopters for 10 days. I have read about missing hikers who walk ridiculous, unexpected distances, thus evading SAR. But it just isn't possible with proximity to roads and lack of water. Something just doesn't make sense. Local SAR is convinced they are in there. A lot of locals think they left the park. I hope they are found. Can't imagine what their loved ones are going through.
Click to expand...

Coming out of lurkdom to say Welcome NWhiker :)

:welcome5:
 
NWhiker said:
I live in the area and hike that area of the park frequently (never in the summer) and decided to offer my thoughts. My apologies if any or all of this is redundant. There is no water in that area that I'm aware of. Even barker dam (which isn't close enough anyways) can be dry as a bone in august. We did get some brief rain a day or two after they went missing but hardly enough to sustain you in these temperatures. That is something to consider as well. There is 100 degrees, and then 100 degrees in the mojave desert. The intensity of the sun is downright brutal this time of year. 20 minutes of yard work can dehydrate you. Wherever they went, it wasn't far after their water ran out.

The thing that's bothering me is that this area of the park is open and within view of 29 palms, yucca valley and Joshua tree if you climb high enough. Also, as has been covered, you hit a road in an a few miles in any direction. So SAR has executed multiple grid searches including helicopters, which I assume have FLIR capabilities, in a relatively manageable area. The local community is completely baffled as to how they haven't been found. IMO You couldn't hide from SAR if you tried in that area of JT UNLESS you went underground or under boulders somehow. Even at that how do you not leave tracks or a scent? Just makes no sense. There was a case nearby in 2010 where a hiker named bill ewasko went missing and was never found. Locals still scratch their heads about that one. Can't imagine TWO people evading search dogs and helicopters for 10 days. I have read about missing hikers who walk ridiculous, unexpected distances, thus evading SAR. But it just isn't possible with proximity to roads and lack of water. Something just doesn't make sense. Local SAR is convinced they are in there. A lot of locals think they left the park. I hope they are found. Can't imagine what their loved ones are going through.
Click to expand...

Finally, thankfully a local and a hiker has arrived! They did find tracks though but only reported the ones that were located where they lost their trail. They could have been the only tracks but I think that is unlikely. It's possible they did try to backtrack through the other side canyon to the west and just went up into some rocks to hide out from the sun. But surely they would move on the next day(s)? The smart thing to have done would be return the way they came the next morning, but they may have been out of their mind at that point.

Like you, I keep thinking so close to other roads and such, they could have travelled north/south/east or west and hit civilization in hours.
 
NWhiker said:
I live in the area and hike that area of the park frequently (never in the summer) and decided to offer my thoughts. My apologies if any or all of this is redundant. There is no water in that area that I'm aware of. Even barker dam (which isn't close enough anyways) can be dry as a bone in august. We did get some brief rain a day or two after they went missing but hardly enough to sustain you in these temperatures. That is something to consider as well. There is 100 degrees, and then 100 degrees in the mojave desert. The intensity of the sun is downright brutal this time of year. 20 minutes of yard work can dehydrate you. Wherever they went, it wasn't far after their water ran out.

The thing that's bothering me is that this area of the park is open and within view of 29 palms, yucca valley and Joshua tree if you climb high enough. Also, as has been covered, you hit a road in an a few miles in any direction. So SAR has executed multiple grid searches including helicopters, which I assume have FLIR capabilities, in a relatively manageable area. The local community is completely baffled as to how they haven't been found. IMO You couldn't hide from SAR if you tried in that area of JT UNLESS you went underground or under boulders somehow. Even at that how do you not leave tracks or a scent? Just makes no sense. There was a case nearby in 2010 where a hiker named bill ewasko went missing and was never found. Locals still scratch their heads about that one. Can't imagine TWO people evading search dogs and helicopters for 10 days. I have read about missing hikers who walk ridiculous, unexpected distances, thus evading SAR. But it just isn't possible with proximity to roads and lack of water. Something just doesn't make sense. Local SAR is convinced they are in there. A lot of locals think they left the park. I hope they are found. Can't imagine what their loved ones are going through.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting! I agree 100%! Something just seems off. Red flags for me was the point that they may not have stayed at airbnb the night before . Where were they? Did they meet up with someone? The largest SAR in history of JT and find nothing but one set of tracks and Rachel received the highest medal in GS which would include survivalist training. Something is off.


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thekarmabus said:
Thank you for posting! I agree 100%! Something just seems off. Red flags for me was the point that they may not have stayed at airbnb the night before . Where were they? Did they meet up with someone? The largest SAR in history of JT and find nothing but one set of tracks and Rachel received the highest medal in GS which would include survivalist training. Something is off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, the Girl Scout Gold Award does not involve survivalist training. Some Girl Scout troops are more active in outdoors training than others. But the Gold Award in and of itself has no outdoor training component.
 
I wonder if they could have ended up underground somehow. I know there are mines in the area. Could they have stumbled into an old mine shaft somehow?
 
lizardjustice said:
For what it's worth, the Girl Scout Gold Award does not involve survivalist training. Some Girl Scout troops are more active in outdoors training than others. But the Gold Award in and of itself has no outdoor training component.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I assumed it was comparable to the Eagle Scout award.


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I think they realized they were in trouble during their hike that day, and the phone finally pinged around 4:00 pm when they were trying to get somewhere to find cell service to call for help.

They probably were able to hike a short while in the morning the following day (Friday), but chose to bed down somewhere to get out of the heat for the rest of the day. Possibly, they both were still overcome by the heat and lack of water, and succumbed to the elements in whatever hidey hole they were in that day.

I think there's been no trace of them because they did not wander out after that Friday morning. I believe they will be randomly found where they bed down that Friday, when conditions are more mild and people begin exploring places off the beaten track.
 
GigTu said:
I think they realized they were in trouble during their hike that day, and the phone finally pinged around 4:00 pm when they were trying to get somewhere to find cell service to call for help.

They probably were able to hike a short while in the morning the following day (Friday), but chose to bed down somewhere to get out of the heat for the rest of the day. Possibly, they both were still overcome by the heat and lack of water, and succumbed to the elements in whatever hidey hole they were in that day.

I think there's been no trace of them because they did not wander out after that Friday morning. I believe they will be randomly found where they bed down that Friday, when conditions are more mild and people begin exploring places off the beaten track.
Click to expand...

I agree GigTu. When do temps start to get cooler in JTNP? October? November? Maybe a volunteer search party will be organized when it's cooler and the searchers are not in as much danger from the heat.
 
Sadly we see a lot of cases like this in Colorado involving hikers, climbers, etc.

Mother nature is no joke.
 
Remember that guy who got stuck in a crevasse and had to cut his own arm off? There was also a movie about it, iirc.

Once again, here's a case where Tomnod could be useful.
 
yannick_1709 said:
Here the new links:

As you can see here, there are three water reservoirs in the area, but far away from their location. Before reaching those, they would have been able to see a paved road or the Keys Ranch, which should have frequent visitors (as it is a historical site).
Apparently, all washes in the area are dried out in the summer, so there's little to no water anywhere. Even springs, which are also far away are mostly dry or have dried out so much, they are not usable.

It is getting pretty late here, so I'll head to bed now. If there's something more I should change/add, don't hesitate to ask, I'll do it as soon as I have some time tomorrow.

Edit: I just realized there's some paved road not marked at Indian Cove, but It'll have to wait.
Click to expand...
Thank you for updating the map with the additional features. At minimum, they help with topo perspective on where locations are.
 
margarita25 said:
Remember that guy who got stuck in a crevasse and had to cut his own arm off? There was also a movie about it, iirc.

Once again, here's a case where Tomnod could be useful.
Click to expand...

The movie is called "127 hours", that's how long he was stuck.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1542344/

His name is Aron Ralston.
Aron Lee Ralston (born October 27, 1975) is an American outdoorsman, engineer and motivational speaker known for having survived a canyoneering accident in southeastern Utah in 2003 during which he amputated his own right forearm with a dull pocketknife in order to extricate himself from a dislodged boulder, which had him trapped in Blue John Canyon for five days and seven hours (127 hours). After he freed himself, he had to make his way through the remainder of the canyon, then rappel down a 65-foot (20 m) sheer cliff face in order to reach safety.
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aron_Ralston

Sheer will to survive. Absolutely amazing.
 
Aron's plight with the boulder is what immediately came to mind for me on this case.

The movie 127 Hours is riveting.
 
Can anyone speak to how long searches are conducted for? If I remember correctly they were beginning to scale them back for the safety of the searches. Also, approximately how many miles have been covered?

It seems as though they couldn't have possibly gotten any further than the searches have gotten. That leads me to believe that they are not there and they may have been met with foul play.

Have they investigated any sort of enemies either of them had? Any sort of love triangle? Or maybe just a crime of opportunity?

:(
 
JetsFan24 said:
Can anyone speak to how long searches are conducted for? If I remember correctly they were beginning to scale them back for the safety of the searches. Also, approximately how many miles have been covered?

It seems as though they couldn't have possibly gotten any further than the searches have gotten. That leads me to believe that they are not there and they may have been met with foul play.

Have they investigated any sort of enemies either of them had? Any sort of love triangle? Or maybe just a crime of opportunity?

:(
Click to expand...

They were deep in a trail-less canyon. Maybe they tried to scramble up the slopes. They also could have back tracked and ended up southeast of the Maze Loop wandering in circles through the rock canyons thinking they were close to the Loop. They did minimal searching of that area and most of that was done by helicopter.

In 2010 Edward Rosenthal was lost for 6 days and travelled 20 miles before being found.
 
Gardener1850 said:
I agree GigTu. When do temps start to get cooler in JTNP? October? November? Maybe a volunteer search party will be organized when it's cooler and the searchers are not in as much danger from the heat.
Click to expand...

October is probably ideal. I've been thinking a lot about this. I'll most likely go there if they are not found by then. We'll scout out from Indian Cove.
 
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