Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #1

[Elainera]

Did anyone ever state how far the circle pattern of the steps were from the actual car?


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No I have not read that.

Also, I would like to know in which directions the searches were done, and how far.

 

[GigTu]

Ditto

And it seems if they came upon a paved road or obvious packed-down or gravel road, they'd follow it. They would have to cross it and use "illogic" to head towards Mexico. Eventually a road would bring them to civilization.

 

[thekarmabus]

I doubt they are near Mexico, it's around a 100 miles as the crow flies.

Sorry, poor taste in humor. I just meant if they were not in right mind they could be anywhere


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[dulcinea]

http://www.pe.com/2017/08/07/searching-for-missing-pair-in-joshua-tree-continues/

[FONT=&amp]“While resources have been scaled back, a special regional overhead team made up of investigators from Yosemite National Park and Sequoia/Kings Canyon National Park have arrived on scene as well as NPS drone specialists from the Grand Canyon,” Land said.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Canines were also searching the area."


[/FONT]

 

[AffirmationChick]

Full official release from NPS:

https://www.facebook.com/JoshuaTreeNPS/posts/10159160058090181

From the release:

Searchers having been looking for 10 days for a couple who disappeared in Joshua Tree National Park with few leads or traces. [...] The couple’s vehicle was found at the trailhead of a popular hiking trail known as the Maze Loop. Anyone who might have been hiking or stopping in the area and recall seeing a couple in their early twenties, or having other pertinent information about the two are asked to contact San Bernardino Dispatch at 909 383-5652.

Almost sounds like they're considering other options?


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[thekarmabus]

Full official release from NPS:

https://www.facebook.com/JoshuaTreeNPS/posts/10159160058090181

From the release:



Almost sounds like they're considering other options?


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My thoughts exactly .


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[JetsFan24]

Full official release from NPS:

https://www.facebook.com/JoshuaTreeNPS/posts/10159160058090181

From the release:



Almost sounds like they're considering other options?


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In what sense were you thinking? Possible foul play?

I don't think it's impossible. As I said before I believe, unless these two folks were absolutely beastly hikers it seems as though they would've been found or recovered within the search area. One cannot imagine them getting much further than the area that has been searched. It's not impossible of course.

John Glasgow's case comes to mind as his body was found at the bottom of a cliff after extensive searches lead the searchers to believe that there was no way he was in the park.

 

[thekarmabus]

In what sense were you thinking? Possible foul play?

I don't think it's impossible. As I said before I believe, unless these two folks were absolutely beastly hikers it seems as though they would've been found or recovered within the search area. One cannot imagine them getting much further than the area that has been searched. It's not impossible of course.

John Glasgow's case comes to mind as his body was found at the bottom of a cliff after extensive searches lead the searchers to believe that there was no way he was in the park.

There are so many different possibilities. The red flags for me is that one or both were hikers and had done survivalist type training . To not have any tracks other than the circle pattern is concerning as well as no crumb trail . Another thing is we know very little about these two. They dated once, went to college together etc... nothing substantial though. Is there a reason why nothing is being stated about past? Also this was the largest search and rescue to date for JTNP.... and nothing... meaning not a water bottle, wrapper, piece of clothing ? Lastly there were two. One gets injured the other would go for help, one perish the other crawls away... two people are missing. They were not married, they dated at one point. I am assuming not a deep connection that would make one sit with another and die together .
I could be way off. Too many things don't add up.


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[AffirmationChick]

In what sense were you thinking? Possible foul play?

I don't think it's impossible. As I said before I believe, unless these two folks were absolutely beastly hikers it seems as though they would've been found or recovered within the search area.

<snipped for space>

Two weeks of searching and essentially no trace whatsoever? You're absolutely right and it's getting harder to believe they are there.

As for what else to consider, I'm not leaning one way or another. It seems equally hard to believe someone with a nefarious purpose happened to be on the trail, poised to take them down (although it becomes slightly easier if they were there so early it was practically still the middle of the night).

Hard to believe someone drove by at just the right moment to kidnap them and managed to leave no trace, only footsteps appearing to go onto the trail.

It seems unlikely that this case is related to Audrey and Jonathan, but it does have some eerie similarities (car found with evidence leading away but not very far with no other evidence).

Seems crazy that someone else at the Airbnb was involved but what if. I've stayed in some where the people renting the other rooms in an apartment are just as much strangers as you are.

Did they want to disappear? Family and friends seem so unconvinced but how often do we hear that? I still think it's odd that they stopped going to college at the same time. If they graduated, why do none of the articles say they graduated? Taking a year off, I get, but both of them at the same time?

And of course all of this speculation could be for nothing. I've read enough Paulides to know people disappear in plain sight constantly (and no conspiracy theories are needed to explain them).


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[azure]

In what sense were you thinking? Possible foul play?

I don't think it's impossible. As I said before I believe, unless these two folks were absolutely beastly hikers it seems as though they would've been found or recovered within the search area. One cannot imagine them getting much further than the area that has been searched. It's not impossible of course.

John Glasgow's case comes to mind as his body was found at the bottom of a cliff after extensive searches lead the searchers to believe that there was no way he was in the park.

I too wondered about the bottom of the cliff thing. There are lots of rocks to scramble up at JT and there were some dicey moments climbing up them (until I removed my sandals lol). It seems so unlikely that both parties could have fallen off a rock or into a rock formation though.

 

[Force Ten]

I've spent some considerable time reviewing the terrain and the entire trail. There are several areas where they could have lost the trail and many, many trails (probably animal) that interject with the trail. Virtually every canyon leads out to civilization. The longest of these is about 4-5 miles and empties out to Indian Cove campground. 3 canyons actually lead to Indian Cove. They could very well be in that canyon and were too exhausted not to carry on. I'm sure searchers considered this and trekked all the way through. I also have to think that anywhere beyond the road is a higher elevation (with the exception of being in wash) they should have been able to see the road and cars driving. I really can't understand how they did not come back safely or have been found yet. They were to circle this big hill/pile of rocks and loop back to the trailhead.

The only conclusions I can come up with is they ended up in some slot canyon after wandering around for days and/or they are way off the grid of searches. Below I circled a southeast area of the trail where they could have ended up after wandering and trying to follow trails. The blue is possible trails they could taken and they may have been far enough back to where they couldn't see cars on the road.




Here is a zoomed in view of the same area with the blue following below a trail.This is an area of a lot of rock covers or cave type places one could hide from the heat.

 

[mbison]

This is from a gov site. I'm speaking of unsolved cold cases. Not cases where person was found deceased.
https://www.nps.gov/orgs/1563/cold-cases.htm


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.

I'm not sure how they picked that handful of cases, but that list is not at all comprehensive. This guy has been doing a good job documenting hundreds of people who have gone missing in state & national parks on youtube, most of whom are sadly never found: [video=youtube;-B5MVUEgWc0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B5MVUEgWc0[/video] I picked this video at random, but none of these people are listed on the nps website.

Jason Knapp http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?27517-SC-Jason-Knapp-20-Clemson-12-April-1998
Sharon Buis http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?244928-AK-Sharon-Buis-48-Juneau-23-May-2014
Matthew Greene http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Matthew-Greene-39-Mammoth-Lakes-16-July-2013
Larry Conn
Kenny Veach http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?309873-NV-Kenneth-Veach-47-Las-Vegas-10-Nov-2014
Henriette Murr
Morgan Heimer http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?281773-AZ-Morgan-Heimer-22-Grand-Canyon-2-June-2015

 

[GigTu]

I've spent some considerable time reviewing the terrain and the entire trail. There are several areas where they could have lost the trail and many, many trails (probably animal) that interject with the trail. Virtually every canyon leads out to civilization. The longest of these is about 4-5 miles and empties out to Indian Cove campground. 3 canyons actually lead to Indian Cove. They could very well be in that canyon and were too exhausted not to carry on. I'm sure searchers considered this and trekked all the way through. I also have to think that anywhere beyond the road is a higher elevation (with the exception of being in wash) they should have been able to see the road and cars driving. I really can't understand how they did not come back safely or have been found yet. They were to circle this big hill/pile of rocks and loop back to the trailhead.

The only conclusions I can come up with is they ended up in some slot canyon after wandering around for days and/or they are way off the grid of searches. Below I circled a southeast area of the trail where they could have ended up after wandering and trying to follow trails. The blue is possible trails they could taken and they may have been far enough back to where they couldn't see cars on the road.

Here is a zoomed in view of the same area with the blue following below a trail.This is an area of a lot of rock covers or cave type places one could hide from the heat.

Would wild cats be nesting in those caves?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

To save me trawling back through the thread and links, can anyone remind me what the couple were reported to be wearing when they left that morning? The aerial shots posted suggest that most colours except camouflage, khaki and dark green would stick out like a sore thumb from the air.

 

[fourcatsonepup]

.

I'm not sure how they picked that handful of cases, but that list is not at all comprehensive. This guy has been doing a good job documenting hundreds of people who have gone missing in state & national parks on youtube, most of whom are sadly never found: [video=youtube;-B5MVUEgWc0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B5MVUEgWc0[/video] I picked this video at random, but none of these people are listed on the nps website.

Jason Knapp http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?27517-SC-Jason-Knapp-20-Clemson-12-April-1998
Sharon Buis http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?244928-AK-Sharon-Buis-48-Juneau-23-May-2014
Matthew Greene http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Matthew-Greene-39-Mammoth-Lakes-16-July-2013
Larry Conn
Kenny Veach http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?309873-NV-Kenneth-Veach-47-Las-Vegas-10-Nov-2014
Henriette Murr
Morgan Heimer http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?281773-AZ-Morgan-Heimer-22-Grand-Canyon-2-June-2015

The NPS list contains people missing in NATIONAL PARKS. I don't think any of the people you listed are presumed missing in a National Park... I know Jason, Matthew and Kenny were not. Also Morgan was on their list. Just wanted to clear this up!

 

[thekarmabus]

.

I'm not sure how they picked that handful of cases, but that list is not at all comprehensive. This guy has been doing a good job documenting hundreds of people who have gone missing in state & national parks on youtube, most of whom are sadly never found: [video=youtube;-B5MVUEgWc0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B5MVUEgWc0[/video] I picked this video at random, but none of these people are listed on the nps website.

Jason Knapp http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?27517-SC-Jason-Knapp-20-Clemson-12-April-1998
Sharon Buis http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?244928-AK-Sharon-Buis-48-Juneau-23-May-2014
Matthew Greene http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-Matthew-Greene-39-Mammoth-Lakes-16-July-2013
Larry Conn
Kenny Veach http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?309873-NV-Kenneth-Veach-47-Las-Vegas-10-Nov-2014
Henriette Murr
Morgan Heimer http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?281773-AZ-Morgan-Heimer-22-Grand-Canyon-2-June-2015

Morgan heimer is on the gov site and the only one from the list above that actually went missing inside a national park and never found.
Our National Parks are safe and yes I have watched and read the theories out there of someone snatching up hikers. The point I was trying to make is that there are millions of visitors and hikers visiting NP every year and yes some may get lost... they are found though. Perhaps not always alive but they are found. The gov site is accurate in the list of people never found inside a NP.


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[ts51]

This is what I was wondering..are there animals in this park (I know nothing about this park) like coyotes, that, if they were in a weakened state come nightfall, or in a crevice, etc., could attack and carry them off to a den? It looks like a desert, are there large, or pack predators there?

Would wild cats be nesting in those caves?

 

[thekarmabus]

This is what I was wondering..are there animals in this park (I know nothing about this park) like coyotes, that, if they were in a weakened state come nightfall, or in a crevice, etc., could attack and carry them off to a den? It looks like a desert, are there large, or pack predators there?

There are wild animals out there. More likely to not attack them but do damage after they passed away. The thing is though you have animals you will always have hawks or vultures flying above to clean up. Rescue teams would notice and search those areas. Even if it were in a crevice the birds would be all over it.


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[ts51]

Thank you for this response..I learn something all the time on this site..and something to watch for myself when I'm even in a state forest!!

There are wild animals out there. More likely to not attack them but do damage after they passed away. The thing is though you have animals you will always have hawks or vultures flying above to clean up. Rescue teams would notice and search those areas. Even if it were in a crevice the birds would be all over it.


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[thekarmabus]

A very detailed report on search efforts
http://www.jttortoisetelegraph.com/...9/Couple-Missing-in-Joshua-Tree-National-Park


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