Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #2

[Normancita]

Will they be able to do toxicology or had too much time/arid conditions gone by?


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[yukoncornelius]

I'm having a hard time understanding why so many are favoring the mercy/suicide scenario. I can't recall any other mercy/suicides outside of those involving terminally ill elderly people. At a certain point, probability and statistics have to come in to play.

Murder/suicide is a more likely scenario IMO.

 

[LietKynes]

I'm having a hard time understanding why so many are favoring the mercy/suicide scenario. I can't recall any other mercy/suicides outside of those involving terminally ill elderly people. At a certain point, probability and statistics have to come in to play.

Murder/suicide is a more likely scenario IMO.

RSBM

Was it possible she was planning to break up with him... and he found out ?
One last time together. His family describes him as a seasoned hiker -- and they weren't that far from civilization.
Whatever.. what a sad outcome !!

An acquaintances' son's gf broke up with him about a year ago ; and he tried to kill himself by driving into traffic and into a pickup truck.
Both he and the person in the other vehicle survived. But his family says he is different now, and not in a good way.
He almost died and suffered multiple small strokes as well as needing physical therapy for balance and coordination.
Just musing here. Breakups can be catastrophic to young people.

:moo:

 

[Gone Girl]

I'm having a hard time understanding why so many are favoring the mercy/suicide scenario. I can't recall any other mercy/suicides outside of those involving terminally ill elderly people. At a certain point, probability and statistics have to come in to play.

Murder/suicide is a more likely scenario IMO.

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/may/11/news/mn-28897

I kept trying to find statistics but failed. All I found was this story about a similar scenario though different circumstances. Man killed his best friend while hiking and claimed it was mercy killing. So hard to say. Since in this case there’s no one alive to blame or arrest, I’d just as soon accept it as mercy killing/ suicide.

 

[Suglo]

I'm having a hard time understanding why so many are favoring the mercy/suicide scenario. I can't recall any other mercy/suicides outside of those involving terminally ill elderly people. At a certain point, probability and statistics have to come in to play.

Murder/suicide is a more likely scenario IMO.

It’s not every day that people get lost in the desert. This is an extraordinary case and a tragedy. I have yet to hear a single friend or loved one speak up and say they had a turbulent relationship even though many here are implying it. Even her family has broken their silence and said they don’t blame Joseph or his family. That is powerful. They would be the first to cry foul if they thought their daughter was murdered.

 

[whitelilac]

[FONT=&amp]SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Friends and relatives of a couple whose bodies were found in Joshua Tree National Park say they believe the two got lost while hiking in the sprawling desert park and struggled in the searing heat with little food or water before they died in a "sympathetic murder-suicide."
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]The Orange County Register reports there was evidence the pair had been battling the elements.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Nguyen's family said investigators told them that based on the circumstances and positioning of the bodies, they believed the two died in a "sympathetic murder-suicide."
[/FONT]
..[FONT=&amp]sheriff's spokeswoman Cindy Bachman said: "Knowing that they rationed food, had no water and were seeking shade certainly sheds a different light on the apparent dire circumstances."
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"I think they got lost and were suffering in 100-degree heat," Young said.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"They had a choice of a slow and painful death or a quick death," he said. "And they made the choice of a quick death."[/FONT]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/park-hikers-may-died-sympathetic-murder-suicide-182322270.html

 

[Seajay]

Were they girlfriend and boyfriend or not? I thought the family and early media were saying they were not, they had been together for a short time, but broke up and that they were exes.

Much of media now is saying they were girlfriend and boyfriend. The whole time I've been following this, they were just friends, now since the bodies have been found, they are this great love story who decided to die together rather than to wait for it. Which is it?

 

[2bees]

Were they girlfriend and boyfriend or not? I thought the family and early media were saying they were not, they had been together for a short time, but broke up and that they were exes.

Much of media now is saying they were girlfriend and boyfriend. The whole time I've been following this, they were just friends, now since the bodies have been found, they are this great love story who decided to die together rather than to wait for it. Which is it?

It’s always been that they were ex’s and now just friends. The media screws up info all the time. Someone says “did you hear about the couple lost in Joshua Tree” and next thing you know they’re in a romantic relationship.

I don’t think this is a romantic story AT ALL. It’s a sad sad story of two friends that went out for a good time, got themselves in trouble and felt there was no other way out. They had previously dated so yeah I’m sure it’s safe to say they had deep feelings/love for each other. Friends can love each other too.

This isn’t towards you... but in general I keep thinking about all the speculation and jeez I’d want to be put out of my friggin misery too (I hate intense heat and get horrible headaches just being in that kind of heat for an hour) and if they found a way out and able to take some comfort in each others arms then thank God for that. What an incredibly awful way to die.

 

[TruthIsStranger]

Because elderly, ill people are dying by the thousands each day and are much more common than two lost hikers with a gun, so of course you'd hear about them more often. Also, hiking with a gun isn't all that common, so usually there is no way to kill the other person AND yourself, so you die slowly. But it makes sense here, as tragic as it is. You're probably in great pain, not just hot and thirsty. Earlier in the thread, there were articles about the dehydration process.

 

[Roadette]

At this point their titles don't matter (friends, bf/gf, etc.). They were close enough for her to have committed to going away on a trip with him to celebrate her birthday. It's not like he kidnapped her.

That says something about how close they were at the time of their death.

I wish they would have used better wording in the first statement instead of murder-suicide. I too think it says SO MUCH that her family came out with their own statement saying they have no hard feelings. They're going to know more details than we do and they seem to understand how dire the situation was.

 

[Tulessa]

Started reading this story yesterday and could not stop. This has to be a nightmare for the families, regardless of the situation. Prayers for both.

 

[Infidell]

[FONT=&amp]SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Friends and relatives of a couple whose bodies were found in Joshua Tree National Park say they believe the two got lost while hiking in the sprawling desert park and struggled in the searing heat with little food or water before they died in a "sympathetic murder-suicide."
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]The Orange County Register reports there was evidence the pair had been battling the elements.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Nguyen's family said investigators told them that based on the circumstances and positioning of the bodies, they believed the two died in a "sympathetic murder-suicide."
[/FONT]
..[FONT=&amp]sheriff's spokeswoman Cindy Bachman said: "Knowing that they rationed food, had no water and were seeking shade certainly sheds a different light on the apparent dire circumstances."
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"I think they got lost and were suffering in 100-degree heat," Young said.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"They had a choice of a slow and painful death or a quick death," he said. "And they made the choice of a quick death."[/FONT]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/park-hikers-may-died-sympathetic-murder-suicide-182322270.html

A couple of points strike me as odd.

First, who carries a loaded firearm on a dayhike in Joshua Tree? Maybe the security guard thing is the answer, but it's troubling under the circumstances.

And the circumstances are, you're lost in the desert and you likely are aware there's a search going on. Why wouldn't you fire off the weapon to draw the searchers to you?

The only answer to that is, the security guard had just enough ammunition to take Rachel's life and his own. Or that perhaps he did fire off rounds, and kept just enough for the sympathetic murder-suicide angle. In that scenario, one would think there would have been reports of gunfire during the search. I've heard of nothing along those lines.

Which walks me back to the first question. Why did the hiker bring a loaded weapon into the desert on a day hike?

 

[Dixie811]

A LOT of people bring a firearm when hiking. I mean.. what? I’m shocked that people think that indicates anything. They were going out into the wilderness where they would have no cell phone service. Additionally, IME, when someone owns a gun and they don’t frequently have a chance to take it out of it’s safe, they will jump at the chance to bring it along hiking or camping where it may actually be needed.

We have no idea if it was ever fired during the time they were lost. It took this long to find two human bodies... looking for shell casings out there off-trail would be worse than needles in a haystack.

Would I personally bring a gun hiking? Probably not, even somewhere with no cell-service. But my husband absolutely would have at that age. Joseph was just a normal young man, IMO.

 

[2bees]

This link was posted in previous thread... his mom mentions there were bullet casings away them. It’s possible that they did pop off some shots and that they weren’t heard... that may have added to the feeling they wouldn’t be rescued.

http://www.kmir.com/story/36648617/...on-killed-friend-and-himself-to-end-suffering

Additionally, pretty sure this was also shared on previous thread as it’s been reported on several MSM outlets...

“Cindy Bachman, a spokeswoman for the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department, told KABC that detectives believe the couple may have perceived they had no way out.

"They have nothing to suggest that Joseph had any intent to harm Rachel -- just that they probably found themselves in a very dire situation," Bachman told the TV station.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...a-joshua-tree-missing-couple-found/index.html

 

[KaaBoom]

This link was posted in previous thread... his mom mentions there were bullet casings away them. It’s possible that they did pop off some shots and that they weren’t heard... that may have added to the feeling they wouldn’t be rescued.

I don't know about anyone else, but if I'm hiking and hear gunshots, the last thing I'm going to do is go and look where it's coming from. My goal is to stay as far away from people shooting as possible. So I don't think that firing a gun would be a good way of getting help. I doubt that many people would go to see where the shots are coming from. So I'm not surprised, that didn't help them.

 

[Seajay]

I don't know about anyone else, but if I'm hiking and hear gunshots, the last thing I'm going to do is go and look where it's coming from. My goal is to stay as far away from people shooting as possible. So I don't think that firing a gun would be a good way of getting help. I doubt that many people would go to see where the shots are coming from. So I'm not surprised, that didn't help them.

I hadn't thought about it but you are right. I've been camping my whole life. We've always taken a gun with us. And many times while camping I have heard gunshots, and never once did I think to go look to see what's going on. First of all, there is no way to till the direction the shots came from. Out in the wilderness, the sound surrounds you and echos. Secondly, I would assume Target practice when I heard gunshot. In the very least, out in the middle of nowhere, you don't want to approach someone you don't know who has a loaded gun. You have no idea what their intent is.

I'm not a hiker, never have been. I got a knee injury when I was 37 that left me with a torn meniscus and no cartilage so I can hardly walk now. So I have no idea if I would have taken a gun hiking. I take a gun on road trips though.

 

[Seajay]

The girlfriend/boyfriend vs exes could lead to motive. Whether the deaths were murder/suicide or mercy killing to escape an agonizing death. So it does matter. IMO. Our debate here has been whether her murdered her, then himself in unrequited love or whether they had a pact because of their dire situation. Their relationship would play heavily into which one it was.

 

[iscaremyself]

The girlfriend/boyfriend vs exes could lead to motive. Whether the deaths were murder/suicide or mercy killing to escape an agonizing death. So it does matter. IMO. Our debate here has been whether her murdered her, then himself in unrequited love or whether they had a pact because of their dire situation. Their relationship would play heavily into which one it was.

I'd like to know if she was shot more than once.
One of the articles said there was "bandaged wound(s)".

 

[2bees]

I'd like to know if she was shot more than once.
One of the articles said there was "bandaged wound(s)".

If she was shot more than once
A. Did she or he bandage it up and then he shot her again?
B. Wouldn’t LE find that suspicious enough to not determine this to be that they felt they had no other way out of a dire situation?


Regarding the bandaged sounds, it makes way more sense that they possibly tried to climb up to be seen, fell and got hurt or the like from just being out there.

 

[Seajay]

If she was shot more than once
A. Did she or he bandage it up and then he shot her again?
B. Wouldn’t LE find that suspicious enough to not determine this to be that they felt they had no other way out of a dire situation?


Regarding the bandaged sounds, it makes way more sense that they possibly tried to climb up to be seen, fell and got hurt or the like from just being out there.

When I read about the bandaged wounds, I figured one of them fell and got hurt on the hike. I don't know if that played into their inability to go any further though.