CA - Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #9

[Paladine]

Maybe MS was participating somehow while someone else was planking ?

When planking came up early on in this case we all viewed/discussed photos where two people were planking together, some on top of each other.

I recall that, one appeared to me as an 'owl', of sorts...I found this picture...of 'planking' on a balcony.

 

[katydid23]

ellabella this is my theory as well, there are only 3 people who know exactly what happened in that house that day and 2 are deceased. I really dont think it was intentional, but I think something happened other than planking, running and tripping, sliding down the bannister....something that the family has blamed her for......and more than being in the toilet/bathroom......you dont commit suicide for feeling guilty for that, nor do you kill someone for that......no there is more to the death of max and I feel if the truth came out about that then maybe we can understand the suicide more and also maybe understand why someone may want to kill her.

I think either she or her sister were chasing him and he was pushed, or he was being chased on his scooter.

I can see that scenario. But I do not think RN was the one chasing him. I think it is much more likely that the 13 yr old would be upstairs with him and chasing him. They even place themselves on different floors in the different bathrooms.

Also,the 13 yr old suffered some deep cuts from the broken glass and needed stitches. They said it happened when she was cleaning up the glass. I find that hard to believe. When would she clean up? Not while the poor child was lying unconscious. I think she was there immediately and was so shocked that she probably kneeled down next to him in the broken glass.

 

[katydid23]

I recall that, one appeared to me as an 'owl', of sorts...I found this picture...of 'planking' on a balcony.

Some here have made a good point about the planking theory though. How would he end up out as far as the chandelier and pull it down if he fell from a prone position on the balcony?

I agree that he would have just fallen straight down if he were planking. I think he needed to be running to be able to recreate the tragic outcome.

 

[curiousjo]

I don't want to get clubbed on her for what I'm going to say, but it has nothing to do with Rebecca. It's something I feel should be looked into when looking at this as a homicide.

I think the way Rebecca was tied and with being naked and now with something stuffed in her mouth has a lot of aspects in common with sexual bondage/BDSM and/or Shibari. I'm not sure anyone one wants to check this out cause sometimes the images are disturbing. But is is very typical in bondage/domination scenarios for the person to be bound hands and feet naked and be gagged. I still can't tell if she was hogtied or partially, someone mentioned she was again today or yesterday. But, if she was, this convinces me even more that t his should be looked into.

I hope I haven't offended anyone. I am not saying this was a sexual crime in that she was raped. I'm just saying the scenario sure looks like it is bondage to me. I hadn't though about this much until I say the more elaborate ropes on her wrists, wrapped around so many times and hearing them say her ankles were the same. And, with a rope end that can be pulled to tighten (I think that is what was said).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What was Dr Klein implying by his comment posted on July 15th in the Wall Street Journal article entitiled Girlfriend of Medicis CEO is found dead"
....."But Jonah never paid me and ceased to talk to me but as his wealth increased so did his satyriasis --- his excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire. Maybe this was his desire to remain forever young. But this illness may very well account for what happened at the Spreckles mansion as it did for the action at Dupont Estate in Deleware."

- According to Wikipedia "Dr Arnold Klein is considered the father of modern cosmetic dermatology and has been in the forefront of the latest treatments in this field. He developed the gold standard for minimally invasive injection techniques for physical enhancements such as Botox, Collagen and Restylane. " And of course, he is known for his friendship and work for super stars, ex Michael Jackson (and you have to wonder if MJs oldest son is AK son since they do look a lot alike and MJs daughters mom is AKs assistant Debbie ...)

One would think that Dr Klein and JS run in the same circles- professionally and socially. You have to wonder what he really knows about JS. Obviously, he has some anger directed at JS, but I think he knows more....Were JS/RN swingers, JS/AS into bondage.... Did someone show up to play on Tuesday midnight ?

Someone mentioned a chair tipped over in ? bedroom? (not sure) pictures. Was that chair checked for tape remnants, blood.

 

[revampz]

I didnt know that about the cuts on the 13 yr old...very interesting. Would they blame RN for something her 13 yr old sister may have done?? Remember the being in the bathroom was what was told to the police, no one knows except the 13 year old, the truth. Has it been officially confirmed that it was RN's sister in the house??? At the beginning there was no one else, then it was his sister, then it was 2 teens, and what happened to her? At first we were told it was his sister that called 911 and then she was removed very quickly from the home.

 

[scorekeeper]

ellabella this is my theory as well, there are only 3 people who know exactly what happened in that house that day and 2 are deceased. I really dont think it was intentional, but I think something happened other than planking, running and tripping, sliding down the bannister....something that the family has blamed her for......and more than being in the toilet/bathroom......you dont commit suicide for feeling guilty for that, nor do you kill someone for that......no there is more to the death of max and I feel if the truth came out about that then maybe we can understand the suicide more and also maybe understand why someone may want to kill her.

I think either she or her sister were chasing him and he was pushed, or he was being chased on his scooter.

Is RN's sister safe???????

 

[Paladine]

Some here have made a good point about the planking theory though. How would he end up out as far as the chandelier and pull it down if he fell from a prone position on the balcony?

I agree that he would have just fallen straight down if he were planking. I think he needed to be running to be able to recreate the tragic outcome.

Honestly, I don't think he was planking. I think something happened that caused him to go over the balcony and the 13 yr old was present. I think Rebecca wasn't. I think Rebecca was silenced to keep WHATEVER happened quiet. THAT'S what I think.

ETA: or...a fit of rage....after an accident...lower on my list.

 

[katydid23]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What was Dr Klein implying by his comment posted on July 15th in the Wall Street Journal article entitiled Girlfriend of Medicis CEO is found dead"
....."But Jonah never paid me and ceased to talk to me but as his wealth increased so did his satyriasis --- his excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire. Maybe this was his desire to remain forever young. But this illness may very well account for what happened at the Spreckles mansion as it did for the action at Dupont Estate in Deleware."

- According to Wikipedia "Dr Arnold Klein is considered the father of modern cosmetic dermatology and has been in the forefront of the latest treatments in this field. He developed the gold standard for minimally invasive injection techniques for physical enhancements such as Botox, Collagen and Restylane. " And of course, he is known for his friendship and work for super stars, ex Michael Jackson (and you have to wonder if MJs oldest son is AK son since they do look a lot alike and MJs daughters mom is AKs assistant Debbie ...)

One would think that Dr Klein and JS run in the same circles- professionally and socially. You have to wonder what he really knows about JS. Obviously, he has some anger directed at JS, but I think he knows more....Were JS/RN swingers, JS/AS into bondage.... Did someone show up to play on Tuesday midnight and RN got hurt?

I agree with your post. However after knowing Dr Klein from the Michael Jackson case, anything he says is suspect. Some people consider him culpable in Micheals death as he also precribed him propofil and dozens of other drugs illegally. In other words, he is a bit of a psycho. imoo

 

[MyBelle]

I may have missed it but I didn't hear LE state "no witnesses" to MS' fall. I did hear LE state locations for RN and her sister/niece when MS' fall happened. I think it's strongly possible that LE has omitted revealing others who were present probably due to her/him being a minor(s).

I agree, MS may have needed some forward motion in order to reach the chandelier. He may also have been able to reach it by the standing/timber suggestion I made just up-thread. I think there are a very small number of people who know exactly how this very tragic accident happened. [Just my gut feeling.]

And, I still do think it's a possibility that MS was participating somehow while someone else was planking.

These cases may be a long way from being sealed and officially closed.

MOO

LE made it quite clear that RN and her relative were the only other people in the house at the time of Max's fall and they were in other parts of the house. Her relative is a minor. LE cited RN as their source for this information. There would be no reason for RN to lie about who was there and where they were at that point in time unless she or her relative was responsible. The investigation into Max's fall did not begin until after her death so the only source after that for cops would be the relative and if she told them planking, then she witnessed his fall and is trying to cover it up with a story that the evidence does not support.

Ms. Bremner's "source" can only be RN's relative. Whatever she says, the evidence and Max's injuries do not support planking. The child's body was propelled across that stairwell by either himself or someone else.

JMO

 

[scorekeeper]

I recall that, one appeared to me as an 'owl', of sorts...I found this picture...of 'planking' on a balcony.

This may make more sense of him falling with his back hitting the light and the other/lower bannister and then falling face first onto the carpet/cement floor.....

instead of running, hitting the top stair bannister, flipping, hitting light and the lower bannister......that's a long way to propel a child; unless he was shot out of a cannon or slingshot.......

 

[Paladine]

I didnt know that about the cuts on the 13 yr old...very interesting. Would they blame RN for something her 13 yr old sister may have done?? Remember the being in the bathroom was what was told to the police, no one knows except the 13 year old, the truth. Has it been officially confirmed that it was RN's sister in the house??? At the beginning there was no one else, then it was his sister, then it was 2 teens, and what happened to her? At first we were told it was his sister that called 911 and then she was removed very quickly from the home.

NOT as far a I'm aware. I remember it was reported to be GS early on, before the PR team was hired...I think it was Jonahs child from Kimberly...now, the son, ES, is 13 the daughter, GS, is 14, I posted links on thread 2 or 3, I think...

I do not think Rebeccas sister was there. I HOPE the Family straightens this out....

 

[katydid23]

Honestly, I don't think he was planking. I think something happened that caused him to go over the balcony and the 13 yr old was present. I think Rebecca wasn't. I think Rebecca was silenced to keep WHATEVER happened quiet. THAT'S what I think.

ETA: or...a fit of rage....after an accident...lower on my list.

At this point I am torn between two scenarios. Either RN's niece was the one possibly involved in the accident, purely accidental, no malice, but a stupid action perhaps-- Chasing, roughousing, pushing etc.

OR

it is possible that the older siblings were the ones that were rough housing, planking, goofing around, teasing him, or something, anything that precipitated the accident. But they may have left the mansion just before Max fell. And JS worked to keep them out of the press and the LE reports.

 

[dasqm]

I'm not sure I'm willing to believe a word this Anne Bremner says. I wasn't sure who exactly she was, so googled for a bit and am a bit stunned...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012832729_bremner08m.html

Oh, please! It's a DUI for .... sake. If everyone who drank and drove were picked up we'd have an epidemic. That was then; however, she is beyond that point in time & is considered a respected legal analyst. No one is without fault.....even you! Listen to what she has to say & you might just learn something.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

I just found out about this case on CNN.com; http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/09/02/california.mansion.deaths/index.html?hpt=hp_bn5 Evidently people here have been talking about it a lot.

All I know is that the little boy fell down the steps and died in an "accident". Also, that she was found hanging naked with her hands tied behind her back and they're ruling her death a suicide. :waitasec:

I'd have to see the hand tying, but I think the only person I know of who could tie their own hands behind their back would be Harry Houdini. The police said they found no poisons in her blood, but her live in boyfriend founded a pharmaceutical company.

Several things set off my hinky meter here;

How many people actually die falling down the steps? I saw a Forensics Files or something similar where a cop stated that almost nobody dies from falling down the steps. It's a Hollywood myth.

Why would she strip naked to hang herself? It doesn't make sense.

It seems there is a lot more to this than I know and I'm too lazy to go back and read eight threads so if someone could summarize the case for me I'd be much obliged. TIA

Also check out this article Steely

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth

The tape residue & shirt in the mouth was never mentioned in Friday's PC. This News Channel 8 supposedly obtained the complete autopsy report after the PC. I also see now they are questioning some subgaleal hemorrhages.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

While I agree that might be Bremner's goal, it ain't gonna happen, imo. Nothing is similar to the OJ case. JS has not been charged with murder and LE says they have accounted for his location at TOD that has been ruled a suicide.

I don't see any Judge allowing a wrongful death case to proceed when it is a suicide and JS was nowhere near it plus there is no evidence he even spoke to her.

Been at a family reunion all day. Uggh...too much food and now I am trying to catch up.

I do believe you are correct and I don't know if that is Bremner's intentions or not but she isn't dealing with someone who is just going to rollover.

I don't know how Bremner can convince the court Jonah is responsible for Rebecca's death when he wasnt even on the property at the time. And suicide is a choice by the individual who made it.

I believe LE knows a lot more than they divulged so imo while I understand Rebecca's family being upset and wanting more answers .....pointing fingers is a very risky chance to take because if they keep it up then they will box themselves into having to back up those allegations and imo, they cant.

Neither Jonah or Dina are going to just sit here and take this for very long. Rebecca's family has to realize if they are incorrect in their speculations what they are doing is defaming and hurting someone who has already suffered an unimaginable tragedy of their own.

While the suicide was unusual I do believe the only proof anyone has points to suicide only. If Bremner files a civil suit then she has to have proof that either Jonah or Dina were responsible. That takes solid evidence .....not speculation. So I highly doubt one will ever be filed.

IMO

 

[jjenny]

In addition to planking, there is "owling" where someone would sit in a owl position on whatever surface. Someone owling could lose their balance and fall I suppose. I wonder how sure LE actually is that the child had some momentum going at the time he fell.

 

[Paladine]

LE made it quite clear that RN and her relative were the only other people in the house at the time of Max's fall and they were in other parts of the house. Her relative is a minor. LE cited RN as their source for this information. There would be no reason for RN to lie about who was there and where they were at that point in time unless she or her relative was responsible. The investigation into Max's fall did not begin until after her death so the only source after that for cops would be the relative and if she told them planking, then she witnessed his fall and is trying to cover it up with a story that the evidence does not support.

Ms. Bremner's "source" can only be RN's relative. Whatever she says, the evidence and Max's injuries do not support planking. The child's body was propelled across that stairwell by either himself or someone else.

JMO

They said 'her relative"? Where was that said and it sure seems to be evasive, imo....the boys next door saw GS playing outside w/max and a ball earlier that morning, according to a link I read posted here, earlier...would her boyfriends daughter be considered 'her relative'? I really need to hear from the Zahau's to believe this.

ETA: RN was the source???? And she's dead, ain't that convienant? Wow...I need to hear from the Zahau's, I hope we do.

 

[IWannaKnow]

ellabella this is my theory as well, there are only 3 people who know exactly what happened in that house that day and 2 are deceased. I really dont think it was intentional, but I think something happened other than planking, running and tripping, sliding down the bannister....something that the family has blamed her for......and more than being in the toilet/bathroom......you dont commit suicide for feeling guilty for that, nor do you kill someone for that......no there is more to the death of max and I feel if the truth came out about that then maybe we can understand the suicide more and also maybe understand why someone may want to kill her.

I think either she or her sister were chasing him and he was pushed, or he was being chased on his scooter.

It was mentioned many times that Ocean, the dog, was hers. Allegedly "Ocean" was the last word Max said. Rebecca boarded the dog but didn't go to the hospital, JS called for him on 7/16. LE mentioned several times that Ocean was there the day Max fell and was sitting on the landing when they arrived. They made a point of that. There was a red dog toy bone right under the edge of the bed with the red rope she was hung and tied with and would have lined up with the edge of the bed perfectly if the bed hadn't moved. Paint and a paint brush make me think of painting a picture....Plus, Max wasn't breathing when found (Rebecca was gagged and strangled) and he had a cervical spine fracture (Rebecca falls 9' off a balcony...).

"She saved him..." could him be Ocean?

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8749.jpg

 

[time]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What was Dr Klein implying by his comment posted on July 15th in the Wall Street Journal article entitiled Girlfriend of Medicis CEO is found dead"
....."But Jonah never paid me and ceased to talk to me but as his wealth increased so did his satyriasis --- his excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire. Maybe this was his desire to remain forever young. But this illness may very well account for what happened at the Spreckles mansion as it did for the action at Dupont Estate in Deleware."

- According to Wikipedia "Dr Arnold Klein is considered the father of modern cosmetic dermatology and has been in the forefront of the latest treatments in this field. He developed the gold standard for minimally invasive injection techniques for physical enhancements such as Botox, Collagen and Restylane. " And of course, he is known for his friendship and work for super stars, ex Michael Jackson (and you have to wonder if MJs oldest son is AK son since they do look a lot alike and MJs daughters mom is AKs assistant Debbie ...)

One would think that Dr Klein and JS run in the same circles- professionally and socially. You have to wonder what he really knows about JS. Obviously, he has some anger directed at JS, but I think he knows more....Were JS/RN swingers, JS/AS into bondage.... Did someone show up to play on Tuesday midnight ?

Someone mentioned a chair tipped over in ? bedroom? (not sure) pictures. Was that chair checked for tape remnants, blood.

I don't know much about Dr. Klein at all except he is well known, but who knows, maybe he does know a lot about those who run in his same circles ... or many of them. It is kind of a creepy message about JS and even to say an 'illness'.

I'm thinking at the least, if someone murdered Rebecca that they knew about these things. Not sure she would have though. Interesting about the chair. I am going to have to reread some things. It may also indicate domination/control, humiliation and probably pain (?)- those are common themes in BDSM except both partners are also typically willing. I'm still looking at this as being done to Rebecca against her will. I don't know if someone just did this for a reason or was actually into it? But, if this is the case, the knew about these things.

 

[jjenny]

It was mentioned many times that Ocean, the dog, was hers. Allegedly "Ocean" was the last word Max said. Rebecca boarded the dog but didn't go to the hospital, JS called for him on 7/16. LE mentioned several times that Ocean was there the day Max fell and was sitting on the landing when they arrived. They made a point of that. There was a red dog toy bone right under the edge of the bed with the red rope she was hung and tied with and would have lined up with the edge of the bed perfectly if the bed hadn't moved. Paint and a paint brush make me think of painting a picture....

If it were her dog, why did JS pick it up?