CA - Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #9

[katydid23]

It was a "stick figure" and you're criticizing the height? Goodness me, how much taxpayer money did you expect LE to spend on something that was simply intended to illustrate what happened in an accident?

LE's findings was based on the evidence and the injuries. Ms. Bremner's planking scenario doesn't fit LE's findings.

It cost NOTHING to lessen the height of the figure which is supposed to represent the small victim. The way they drew the animation the adult male figure was tall enough to fall easily over the top of the railing. But I would like to see how a small child would do the same thing?

 

[Quester]

New article on her hemorrhages. Even if AS dropped her on her head while cutting her down (which he doesn't say happened), she wouldn't have gotten those because but that time she would have been dead for hours, and Dr. Wecht says she would have gotten the injuries while she was still alive or minutes after her death.

"Even if (her) scalp hit bushes, that kind of impact would not produce subgaleal hemorrhage," Wecht said. "We're talking about contusions on the top of the head. So, even as the body is falling down – let's say there are branches – how do you get bruises on the top of the head as the body is falling vertically downward?"
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth

Wow! Another omission from the press conference?

"Contusions on the top of the head."


And, this was an interesting quote:

'When you put all of this together, it just is bothersome' Dr Wecht told KFMB-AM.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2033617/Jonah-Shacknais-lover-Rebecca-Zahau-tape-residue-legs-t-shirt-stuffed-mouth.html#ixzz1X1vrvGr2

 

[katydid23]

I have a theory about Max's death that would make Rebecca feel guilty, even if she weren;t... if that makes sense? but then I don't necessarily think Rebecca committed suicide so I'm not sure how that all fits together. I will say my feelings on Maxs death were that it might not have been...intentional.. it wans't accidental either and that the person pushing him might not have had the forethought to see what could happen.

I have thought of a similar scenario. 13 yr olds and 6 yr olds can get on each others nerves. What if they were goofing around or bickering or running and rough housing and an accidental push created a tragic accident?

When my son was 6 and my niece was 13 they used to play fight a lot. My son liked to take her things and run. He would take her little purse and run away giggling and she would get mad and chase him and wrestle it back.

That made me wonder if little Max was doing mischievous things like that and that is why he was running down that hall so fast. :rose:

 

[sdcali]

I just posted a link to a new article on this. Dr. Wecht indicates that she was still alive or minutes after death when those injuries would have occurred. He also doesn't think the injuries are explained by the hanging scenario.
"A renowned forensic pathologist said Sunday that injuries on the top of the head of Rebecca Zahau described in her autopsy are unexplained by the circumstances of her hanging death, which was officially ruled a suicide by the San Diego County Medical Examiner."
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth

I would like to see a computer generated description of RZ's fall over the balcony and drop to her death. I wonder if they did any kind of reenactment with a "dummy" of similar height and weight...etc.

I would also like to know how tall the balcony railing is. I am certain there is a minimum height set forth in the Building Code as there are for bannisters and stair railings.

 

[MyBelle]

Maybe MS was participating somehow while someone else was planking ?

When planking came up early on in this case we all viewed/discussed photos where two people were planking together, some on top of each other.

LE said there were no witnesses and only RN and her sister were in the house at the time. Is it possible they lied? Absolutely. But that doesn't change the evidence, which shows Max was propelled off that staircase and into the chandelier and opposite stair rail. If he didn't propel himself, then he was pushed or thrown. So the investigation Ms. Bremner might manage to reopen isn't Rebecca's death, it will be Max's. JMO

 

[time]

Even if several inches are added to account for the rope being taut when Rebecca was cut down, the end of the rope still seems too high to reach, IMO.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rzbalcony.jpg

I didn't post the pic because it would blow the margins.

How many inches were cut off/still around her neck though? I may have my facts or perspective wrong, but I was sure LE said it hung down 9 ft?

 

[katydid23]

LE said there were no witnesses and only RN and her sister were in the house at the time. Is it possible they lied? Absolutely. But that doesn't change the evidence, which shows Max was propelled off that staircase and into the chandelier and opposite stair rail. If he didn't propel himself, then he was pushed or thrown. So the investigation Ms. Bremner might manage to reopen isn't Rebecca's death, it will be Max's. JMO

I totally agree.

If Bremner is trying to change the scenario for Max's accident, and add the teen siblings and planking to the mix, then it seems that she is trying to change the focus from whatever made Max fly over the top of that railing.

If he was alone upstairs with RN's 13 yr old sister, then people are going to wonder what happened that created that deadly accident.

 

[IWannaKnow]

BBM
Can any of the posters with medical background weigh in on this question of hurling oneself off the balcony with such force that it pulled the bed away from the wall and yet that force didn't break her neck? I wonder how the autopsy findings support this fact as well considering they know how she went over the balcony.

SunniRN can chime in on this, but if the knot is not tied and placed correctly, the person strangles to death. Supposedly if it is less than a certain number of coils, it will not break the neck. The knot also has to be in a certain place. So the height is less important than the knot and the placement, from what I understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangman's_knot

 

[time]

I don't want to get clubbed on her for what I'm going to say, but it has nothing to do with Rebecca. It's something I feel should be looked into when looking at this as a homicide.

I think the way Rebecca was tied and with being naked and now with something stuffed in her mouth has a lot of aspects in common with sexual bondage/BDSM and/or Shibari. I'm not sure anyone one wants to check this out cause sometimes the images are disturbing. But is is very typical in bondage/domination scenarios for the person to be bound hands and feet naked and be gagged. I still can't tell if she was hogtied or partially, someone mentioned she was again today or yesterday. But, if she was, this convinces me even more that t his should be looked into.

I hope I haven't offended anyone. I am not saying this was a sexual crime in that she was raped. I'm just saying the scenario sure looks like it is bondage to me. I hadn't though about this much until I say the more elaborate ropes on her wrists, wrapped around so many times and hearing them say her ankles were the same. And, with a rope end that can be pulled to tighten (I think that is what was said).

 

[katydid23]

There are lots of things which do not fit the suicide scenario. But there are also things which do not fit the homicide scenario.

The thing is, I can see how someone committing suicide might want to try and make this look like a murder. And some of the things that make it look unlike a suicide could have been done that way, just to make it look homicidal. Maybe she wanted to make it look like a murder as a way to get back on those who pushed her to suicide.

If it was a homicide, then why not make it look MORE like a suicide than it did. Why leave the ropes around the ankles and the arms tied together after the hanging? I would have used a ladder to remove those ropes before I left the crime scene. And why not leave a believable suicide note?

 

[Pach]

thats the reason LE should have declared the cause of death as "undetermined" if only to be fair and intellectually honest about the evidence available. There must have been pressure to declare it as suicide since its the easier route, and remove the hanging sword over the usual possible suspects. Anyway, Rebecca's family has filed for re-investigation so we now wait for the next step from authorities.

There are lots of things which do not fit the suicide scenario. But there are also things which do not fit the homicide scenario.

The thing is, I can see how someone committing suicide might want to try and make this look like a murder. And some of the things that make it look unlike a suicide could have been done that way, just to make it look homicidal. Maybe she wanted to make it look like a murder as a way to get back on those who pushed her to suicide.

If it was a homicide, then why not make it look MORE like a suicide than it did. Why leave the ropes around the ankles and the arms tied together after the hanging? I would have used a ladder to remove those ropes before I left the crime scene. And why not leave a believable suicide note?

 

[Quester]

LE said there were no witnesses and only RN and her sister were in the house at the time. Is it possible they lied? Absolutely. But that doesn't change the evidence, which shows Max was propelled off that staircase and into the chandelier and opposite stair rail. If he didn't propel himself, then he was pushed or thrown. So the investigation Ms. Bremner might manage to reopen isn't Rebecca's death, it will be Max's. JMO

I may have missed it but I didn't hear LE state "no witnesses" to MS' fall. I did hear LE state locations for RN and her sister/niece when MS' fall happened. I think it's strongly possible that LE has omitted revealing others who were present probably due to her/him being a minor(s).

I agree, MS may have needed some forward motion in order to reach the chandelier. He may also have been able to reach it by the standing/timber suggestion I made just up-thread. I think there are a very small number of people who know exactly how this very tragic accident happened. [Just my gut feeling.]

And, I still do think it's a possibility that MS was participating somehow while someone else was planking.

These cases may be a long way from being sealed and officially closed.

MOO

 

[gemvt]

LE said there were no witnesses and only RN and her sister were in the house at the time. Is it possible they lied? Absolutely. But that doesn't change the evidence, which shows Max was propelled off that staircase and into the chandelier and opposite stair rail. If he didn't propel himself, then he was pushed or thrown. So the investigation Ms. Bremner might manage to reopen isn't Rebecca's death, it will be Max's. JMO

Precisely. There were no witnesses to Max's accident, so there is no way that anyone can be certain that he was planking, scootering, sliding down the bannister - no one saw what exactly happened. All LE could do was re-enact possibilities based on the injuries that were sustained.

I think that the rope looks to be "too short" in the shot taken after Rebecca had been cut down because her weight was no longer holding it down - cutting her down caused it to spring back.

The balcony is probably not of regulation height because this is a historical home. There likely were no regulations in place when it was built.

 

[sdcali]

In searching for building codes for outdoor balcony heights, I came across this article.

The height is set at 42 inches, but it is reported that many are not that high. I know in my experience, in purchasing a home in CA, when an inspection is done and defects that do not meet Code, they must be corrected --that may be only true if the property will be purchased with a mortgage.

Whether the Spreckels Mansion's bannister heights and balcony railing heights are to Code IMO is part of the equation in determining whether RZ could have propelled herself over the railing with her arms tied behind her back. We have her height and we have the width dimension of the "disturbance in the dust on top of the railing" so where on her body did the railing come to? The top of her thigh? Her hips? Her waist?

I would like the answers to these questions....



http://articles.latimes.com/2003/apr/29/local/me-balcony29

 

[MyBelle]

It cost NOTHING to lessen the height of the figure which is supposed to represent the small victim. The way they drew the animation the adult male figure was tall enough to fall easily over the top of the railing. But I would like to see how a small child would do the same thing?

No need to yell at me. I didn't prepare the video and LE wasn't obligated to prepare one at all. Their narrative included the mention that the railing on the stairs was only 20 inches high at the point they believe Max's momentum carried him over from the top floor. I don't believe LE is lying about the evidence or the boy's injuries. JMO

 

[katydid23]

In searching for building codes for outdoor balcony heights, I came across this article.

The height is set at 42 inches, but it is reported that many are not that high. I know in my experience, in purchasing a home in CA, when an inspection is done and defects that do not meet Code, they must be corrected --that may be only true if the property will be purchased with a mortgage.

Whether the Spreckels Mansion's bannister heights and balcony railing heights are to Code IMO is part of the equation in determining whether RZ could have propelled herself over the railing with her arms tied behind her back. We have her height and we have the width dimension of the "disturbance in the dust on top of the railing" so where on her body did the railing come to? The top of her thigh? Her hips? Her waist?

I would like the answers to these questions....



http://articles.latimes.com/2003/apr/29/local/me-balcony29

However, I think that if a home is on the 'historical whatchmacallit' list, then it does not need to be modified to meet current codes. The electricity and those types of safety concerns must be updated, but some codes like balconies and stairwells can be kept the same as when built.

 

[Paladine]

Any source except the Daily Mail? They are a true gossip rag, IMO...

They are also out of the grip of the media lockdown found in the US and Canada...IMO.

 

[katydid23]

No need to yell at me. I didn't prepare the video and LE wasn't obligated to prepare one at all. Their narrative included the mention that the railing on the stairs was only 20 inches high at the point they believe Max's momentum carried him over from the top floor. I don't believe LE is lying about the evidence or the boy's injuries. JMO

I did not mean to yell. I think I was just replying in kind. And I do not believe LE is lying either. I think somebody else might have lied to LE in the first place, and they are repeating what they were told.

 

[Paladine]

gotta read through, yet, just making sure this was posted:

Pathologist: Zahau’s head injuries unexplained by hanging scenario


Posted: Sep 03, 2011 12:33 AM EDT Updated: Sep 04, 2011 6:50 PM EDT

By David Gotfredson, Field Producer - email

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/153881...-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth?redirected=true

 

[revampz]

I have a theory about Max's death that would make Rebecca feel guilty, even if she weren;t... if that makes sense? but then I don't necessarily think Rebecca committed suicide so I'm not sure how that all fits together. I will say my feelings on Maxs death were that it might not have been...intentional.. it wans't accidental either and that the person pushing him might not have had the forethought to see what could happen.

ellabella this is my theory as well, there are only 3 people who know exactly what happened in that house that day and 2 are deceased. I really dont think it was intentional, but I think something happened other than planking, running and tripping, sliding down the bannister....something that the family has blamed her for......and more than being in the toilet/bathroom......you dont commit suicide for feeling guilty for that, nor do you kill someone for that......no there is more to the death of max and I feel if the truth came out about that then maybe we can understand the suicide more and also maybe understand why someone may want to kill her.

I think either she or her sister were chasing him and he was pushed, or he was being chased on his scooter.