CA - Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #9

[jjenny]

What if he was attempting to slide down the railing when he lost his balance and fell off? As I recall that was one of the rumors. There was another one, that he was trying to reach the ball caught in the chandelier.

 

[MyBelle]

If he was trying to lay out flat on the top of the balcony staircase, and he started to fall, he may have stretch out to try and hang on to the chandelier. Instead of breaking his fall, it crashed to the floor.

I am not sold on the planking, but I am not sold on the other explanation either. The animation they used was the size of a grown man, not a 6 yr old boy. And I do not see how he went over the top of the stair well with such force.

The evidence indicates he propelled over the railing at quite a speed. Gravity would have pulled Max straight down if he was trying to lay flat and no way he would have been able to reach for a chandelier.

 

[MyBelle]

What if he was attempting to slide down the railing when he lost his balance and fell off?

He would have fallen straight down from the force of gravity and not bounced off the opposite stair rail imo.

 

[jjenny]

The evidence indicates he propelled over the railing at quite a speed. Gravity would have pulled Max straight down if he was trying to lay flat and no way he would have been able to reach for a chandelier.

Frankly unless you model that on a computer I wouldn't be so fast to rule it out.

 

[jjenny]

New article on her hemorrhages. Even if AS dropped her on her head while cutting her down (which he doesn't say happened), she wouldn't have gotten those because but that time she would have been dead for hours, and Dr. Wecht says she would have gotten the injuries while she was still alive or minutes after her death.

"Even if (her) scalp hit bushes, that kind of impact would not produce subgaleal hemorrhage," Wecht said. "We're talking about contusions on the top of the head. So, even as the body is falling down – let's say there are branches – how do you get bruises on the top of the head as the body is falling vertically downward?"
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth

 

[katydid23]

She was dead for hours at that time. Would a fall of a dead body leave evidence of blunt force trauma to the head?

I am not sure. But if she fell hard on her head there might have been some evidence of that fall, even if it did not bleed the same way it would if she were alive.

But couldn't she have been swinging around when she went over the railing? She could have slammed into the wall or the railing at that point.

 

[Quester]

What if MS, for some strange reason, was standing up on the upper banister and fell, kind of like timber?

In this way, no running speed would be necessary to reach the chandelier. His head or outstretched arms might collide with it.


PS The idea of planking has got to be one of the most ridiculous and silly, childish things to do. How is it that people are entertained by this?

 

[askfornina]

i think the biggest question for me right now is: if TOD is 3am, is it possible that she was not in rigor when she was found at roughly 6-7am? as i understand it rigor sets in at about the 2 hour mark. can it be longer? what factors in to the time it takes? if she was hanging, why are her knees bent?

anyone have an answer for this? lol

 

[jjenny]

I am not sure. But if she fell hard on her head there might have been some evidence of that fall, even if it did not bleed the same way it would if she were alive.

But couldn't she have been swinging around when she went over the railing? She could have slammed into the wall or the railing at that point.

I just posted a link to a new article on this. Dr. Wecht indicates that she was still alive or minutes after death when those injuries would have occurred. He also doesn't think the injuries are explained by the hanging scenario.
"A renowned forensic pathologist said Sunday that injuries on the top of the head of Rebecca Zahau described in her autopsy are unexplained by the circumstances of her hanging death, which was officially ruled a suicide by the San Diego County Medical Examiner."
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth

 

[MyBelle]

Frankly unless you model that on a computer I wouldn't be so fast to rule it out.

LE did model the trajectory of Max's momentum and resulting fall and it doesn't remotely fit a planking scenario imo.

 

[katydid23]

I just posted a link to a new article on this. Dr. Wecht indicates that she was still alive or minutes after death when those injuries would have occurred. He also doesn't think the injuries are explained by the hanging scenario.
"A renowned forensic pathologist said Sunday that injuries on the top of the head of Rebecca Zahau described in her autopsy are unexplained by the circumstances of her hanging death, which was officially ruled a suicide by the San Diego County Medical Examiner."
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth

In my mind I can see her going over the railing and swinging around pretty hard and fast. So only minutes after her death she might have been swung head first into the wall or the underside of the railing.

I noticed that Dr. W falls short of saying it was NOT a suicide, and he even speculates that she may have tried to make it look like a murder herself. That is where I am leaning right now.

 

[katydid23]

LE did model the trajectory of Max's momentum and resulting fall and it doesn't remotely fit a planking scenario imo.

But they used a stick figure that was the size of an adult male, not the size of a 6 yr old. That makes me less than confident about their findings.

 

[Quester]

LE did model the trajectory of Max's momentum and resulting fall and it doesn't remotely fit a planking scenario imo.

Maybe MS was participating somehow while someone else was planking ?

When planking came up early on in this case we all viewed/discussed photos where two people were planking together, some on top of each other.

 

[time]

Her family would know if she were a boater. Frankly the woman appears to have thought of everything-secure rope to the bed, bind her feet, bind her hands, gag herself, as if she were a pro at this. Yet she has no history of depression or suicide attempts. The bets police could come up with to prove she was depressed is that she supposedly stopped exercising in January-even though prior to her death she was exercising regularly. So how did she know to do all these things?

I think they would know also or someone, nothing like that was claimed. I haven't fully considered the knots, but I think they are just too darn fussy for someone commiting suicide on the spur of the moment (more or less). I'm not saying incredibly difficult knotwise, but too complex/tedious, e.g., why so many turns around the wrists, she somehow knew she could do that in front, slip a hand out and reinsert it in the back, with a pull rope or whatever. When I watched the video I just thought good grief they would have been better off not showing the simulation.

I thought I read and posted before (have to verify) that even the naked suicide article claimed some high percentage, like 98%, of people who committed/completed suicide had previous mental health problems.

My mind keeps going back to my statistics days and thinking what would the odds she committed suicide if you put all these variable into a regression equation. I think next to nil.... .00000000000000001

 

[MyBelle]

I am not sure. But if she fell hard on her head there might have been some evidence of that fall, even if it did not bleed the same way it would if she were alive.

But couldn't she have been swinging around when she went over the railing? She could have slammed into the wall or the railing at that point.

imo, head injury is easily explained. She may -have hit her head on the railing, balcony or the house.

 

[katydid23]

What if he was attempting to slide down the railing when he lost his balance and fell off? As I recall that was one of the rumors. There was another one, that he was trying to reach the ball caught in the chandelier.

I just now watched the repeat of Jane Velez mitchell show. She said, as if it were factual, that Max was sliding headfirst down the bannister when he fell.

I cannot see how that happened. He would have to be at the very top for that to happen for him to land on the chandelier. And would he begin sliding on the very top when it is short and makes a quick curve? Maybe so, since he was only 6. IDK.

 

[ellabella]

I have a theory about Max's death that would make Rebecca feel guilty, even if she weren;t... if that makes sense? but then I don't necessarily think Rebecca committed suicide so I'm not sure how that all fits together. I will say my feelings on Maxs death were that it might not have been...intentional.. it wans't accidental either and that the person pushing him might not have had the forethought to see what could happen.

 

[MyBelle]

But they used a stick figure that was the size of an adult male, not the size of a 6 yr old. That makes me less than confident about their findings.

It was a "stick figure" and you're criticizing the height? Goodness me, how much taxpayer money did you expect LE to spend on something that was simply intended to illustrate what happened in an accident?

LE's findings was based on the evidence and the injuries. Ms. Bremner's planking scenario doesn't fit the evidence.

 

[jjenny]

It was a "stick figure" and you're criticizing the height? Goodness me, how much taxpayer money did you expect LE to spend on something that was simply intended to illustrate what happened in an accident?

LE's findings was based on the evidence and the injuries. Ms. Bremner's planking scenario doesn't fit LE's findings.

How much money does it take to make a figure intended to demonstrate how six year child sustained his injuries, to be the size of a six year old child? Is that much more expensive for reasons that escape me at the moment?

 

[katydid23]

I think they would know also or someone, nothing like that was claimed. I haven't fully considered the knots, but I think they are just too darn fussy for someone commiting suicide on the spur of the moment (more or less). I'm not saying incredibly difficult knotwise, but too complex/tedious, e.g., why so many turns around the wrists, she somehow knew she could do that in front, slip a hand out and reinsert it in the back, with a pull rope or whatever. When I watched the video I just thought good grief they would have been better off not showing the simulation.

I thought I read and posted before (have to verify) that even the naked suicide article claimed some high percentage, like 98%, of people who committed/completed suicide had previous mental health problems.

My mind keeps going back to my statistics days and thinking what would the odds she committed suicide if you put all these variable into a regression equation. I think next to nil.... .00000000000000001

But we do not know if she did or did not have any mental health issues. Her family would not necessarily know. People are good at hiding things.

She did have a recent shoplifting arrest. That may indicate some issues she was having. She was going through a divorce, changing her name, left her long time job, moved in with her boyfriend to care for his kids and his mansion. That is a tremendous amount of stress, especially when the boyfriend is a perfectionist with a bad temper.

I think it is possible that she had some ongoing stress problems and this tragic incident could have led to a total meltdown. If she was told, and rudely and coldly, that she was not allowed to come and see Maxie at the hospital, she was banned from doing so---what a devastating blow, imo.

She probably felt tremendous guilt and pain already, with Maxie going over that balcony while she was in the shower. Who wouldn't feel terrible? But instead of being comforted, now she was being blamed and banished.

I think that her suicide was planned just so, and perfectly arranged to keep people guessing. Maybe she wanted us to wonder if DS or JS or AS was the killer.