CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #11

[IWannaKnow]

No, I am not going by what LE said. I never heard them say she took a completely vertical nose dive but maybe I missed that. I hate to bother you but do you have a link to where they stated that.

In the autopsy Lucas said the injuries she received to her neck is consistent with her body being at an angle. Didn't she have more damage on one side than the other side of the neck?

IMO

The knot was behind her right ear ocean. That is going to cause different amounts of damage because the forces applied will be different in different areas. The ligature furrow was widest on the left side of her neck, the side opposite the knot.

 

[IWannaKnow]

BBM

They wouldn't hinder her from going over the railing if they were loosely bound. If they were slip knotted they would only tighten once she went over the railing and tighten further when she reached her drop.

I'm not talking about the rope around her neck, which would tighten when she went over. I'm talking about the rope around her wrists, tying her hands behind her back. You say they "wouldn't hinder her" but I am saying how did she get over the railing without the use of her hands? Or feet for that matter? And how did the rope tighten when she reached her drop? The rope was not affixed to anything. Are you presuming that she was hanging there from her neck, strangling to death, while actively tightening the rope around her hands?

 

[ehough22]

Could someone explain in more detail how she could have gone over angularly? I am having a hard time picturing it, with her hands and feet bound, knowing where her footprints are as well as only 11 inches of railing disturbed. I think I'm just unable to picture it. What does angular mean- that she didn't go straight down on her torso but rather she kind of turned and went down on her side? Or does it mean she somehow went over horizontally yet only disturbing 11 inches?

 

[CDS22]

Which rope do you mean "loose and slip-knotted"? We are talking about her using her hands to help her over the railing. Once she is over, I doubt very seriously she was trying to tighten the knots. Her hands were behind her back. How were they going to help her get over the railing, loose or tight?

If you tie knots a certain way (like a slip knot), you don't need to tighten them manually. The jump will tighten them.

 

[SunnieRN]

Please do start some new threads in the RZN forum, Sunnie!

It's really confounding that such a small area would be disturbed on the balcony railing. At her height with hands tied behind her back and few to no abrasions on her front, leaning over just doesn't seem possible. I would really like to see a re-enactment using a similar height railing and someone in a gymnastic harness.

The paint on the railing appears to be pealing somewhat and from my experience, pealing paint on metal surfaces, particularly wrought iron, can have very sharp edges. She really should have had some rust or paint chips on her front, to say nothing of abrasions and scratches.

When this thread is closed, eventually it scroll off of the 1st page of Crimes in the News.

I wonder if we could get a banner directing sleuths to the new RZN forum?

The banner is a GREAT idea!! Maybe you could ask a mod for one!! I also like how they have the little blurbs on the home page!! Smart, smart, smart!!:woohoo:

No, I am not going by what LE said. I never heard them say she took a completely vertical nose dive but maybe I missed that. I hate to bother you but do you have a link to where they stated that.

In the autopsy Lucas said the injuries she received to her neck is consistent with her body being at an angle. Didn't she have more damage on one side than the other side of the neck?

IMO

They said she leaned over and pushed herself over.

As for the damage to her neck, it is more indicitive of strangulation, than it is of hanging. Petechiae, broken bone and cartilage and facial congestion.

BBM


I'm not talking about the rope around her neck, which would tighten when she went over. I'm talking about the rope around her wrists, tying her hands behind her back. You say they "wouldn't hinder her" but I am saying how did she get over the railing without the use of her hands? Or feet for that matter? And how did the rope tighten when she reached her drop? The rope was not affixed to anything. Are you presuming that she was hanging there from her neck, strangling to death, while actively tightening the rope around her hands?

Thank you for explaining this so much better than I did. My 13 hour work night is starting to befuddle my ability to explain things.:crazy:

 

[sorrell skye]

If you tie knots a certain way (like a slip knot), you don't need to tighten them manually. The jump will tighten them.

The only knot that would have tightened after the fall over the railing is the noose knot, due to her body weight pulling on it.

The wrist & ankle bindings would not have tightened after the fall.

 

[Winnts]

Snipped, in case this article disappears:
Jennifer Jasionowski, who was friends with Rebecca for years before her death, said she was mourning her friend when Jonah Shacknai approached her at the funeral and struck-up a conversation.

"When we said we didn't think that she would have committed suicide, Jonah agreed with us and said 'Yeah, I wouldn't think that either. I guess you never know,'" Jasionowski told RadarOnline.com.


She asked him if Rebecca had shown any signs of depression and claims he told her "no."

Jasionowski told RadarOnline.com that Shacknai then asked her: "Do you know anyone that would want to hurt her?" She said she quickly told him: "No, I don't know anyone that would want to hurt Rebecca."

Jasionowski says she asked Shacknai if he knew of anyone that wanted to hurt him and he replied "no" and he told her they were unsure what had even happened with his 6-year-old son Max, who suffered a terrible accident while under Rebecca's care, and subsequently died just days later.

That doesn't make sense to me. Is he stating that Rebecca was refusing to say what happened, or that they didn't believe her? Why not ask the 13 year old. This is all so weird.

 

[jjenny]

That doesn't make sense to me. Is he stating that Rebecca was refusing to say what happened, or that they didn't believe her? Why not ask the 13 year old. This is all so weird.

RN was in the bathroom and 13 year old was in the shower as far as the story goes. So neither of them would have seen what had happened.

 

[IWannaKnow]

Snipped and BBM~

The bannister was at least 36" tall and Rebecca had her legs and arms bound. Don't see any way she could have gotten HERSELF over, unless she swan dove.
Now, if someone pushed or 'helped' her over, sure, I think that would be probable. It would be hard to maneuver someone in those circumstances.

If the rope was loose and slip-knotted, she could easily have slipped over the railing lightly. She wasn't necessarily tightly bound when she maneuvered, if that is in fact what she did. The knots would tighten as she jumped.
Remember, this was a woman described by her trainer and sisters as being athletic and in very good shape.

Which rope do you mean "loose and slip-knotted"? We are talking about her using her hands to help her over the railing. Once she is over, I doubt very seriously she was trying to tighten the knots. Her hands were behind her back. How were they going to help her get over the railing, loose or tight?

 

[SunnieRN]

BBM


I'm not talking about the rope around her neck, which would tighten when she went over. I'm talking about the rope around her wrists, tying her hands behind her back. You say they "wouldn't hinder her" but I am saying how did she get over the railing without the use of her hands? Or feet for that matter? And how did the rope tighten when she reached her drop? The rope was not affixed to anything. Are you presuming that she was hanging there from her neck, strangling to death, while actively tightening the rope around her hands?

Doesn't sound very likely, does it?

The only knot that would have tightened after the fall over the railing is the noose knot, due to her body weight pulling on it.

The wrist & ankle bindings would not have tightened after the fall.

And she had the ropes from her arms in her hands. Remember that? So, her arm bindings would have stayed the same level of tightness.

 

[IWannaKnow]

If a mod modifies your post, does that get noted? My last post is not how I left it, and should just be deleted instead of left in it's current state....it makes no sense. How did it get that way???

 

[SunnieRN]

That was strange. One minute it's there, the next it's gone. Computer glitz?? Strange!

 

[sdcali]

Could someone explain in more detail how she could have gone over angularly? I am having a hard time picturing it, with her hands and feet bound, knowing where her footprints are as well as only 11 inches of railing disturbed. I think I'm just unable to picture it. What does angular mean- that she didn't go straight down on her torso but rather she kind of turned and went down on her side? Or does it mean she somehow went over horizontally yet only disturbing 11 inches?

I agree. IMO, it seems there would have been more than an 11 inch disturbance in the dust if she went over at an angle by herself.

 

[deanna82437]

Just some questions that continue to gnaw away at me ..

Why was the dog taken to the boarding kennel? Who requested it be done?

Believe SunnieRN previously asked about the dinner with JS, AS and RZ the evening prior to her death .. where did they eat? What was the mood?

Why is all info regarding AS being kept so secretive? I understand about the minors, but he was the last to see RZ alive and should have a lot of valuable information.

I have many more, but it seems that filling in some of the missing information would do a lot to satisfy the public.

I have many more as I'm sure most of you do but just a few simple answers would do much to alleviate a lot of the discomfort the general public feels. Just wondering if any of them will ever be answered.

 

[Kealia]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and am trying to read all the posts, so I'm going to apologize in advance if this has already been discussed.

I think LE, in addition to the knotting demonstration, should have done re-enactments like the ones done in the Orellana-Salazar case http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/10/48hours/main540062.shtml. The detectives in this SoCal case, created a firehose dummy, consulted w/ biomechanical engineers and stuntmen, to determine the veracity of Salazar's statement that Orellana accidentally fell from the balcony. A re-enactment in RN's case could have at least told them if the scrapes, abrasions, and 4 scalp hematomas could have been caused by the balcony railing, plants, wall, etc.

Other thoughts:

RN quit her job in Dec. 2010 to spend more time w/ Shacknai family and to care for his children, so she had no income. Assume that JS took care of her financially, as a boyfriend would, if she was living w/ him and had no job. Could relationship have changed in Dec. to where she was more of a nanny, less of a girlfriend?

Sources said that JS "had every intention of proposing to Rebecca." I found this an odd statement to be released to the press. IMO, sounds like something you would say in response to implications that JS was ready to move on.
JMO

 

[CDS22]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and am trying to read all the posts, so I'm going to apologize in advance if this has already been discussed.

I think LE, in addition to the knotting demonstration, should have done re-enactments like the ones done in the Orellana-Salazar case http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/10/48hours/main540062.shtml. The detectives in this SoCal case, created a firehose dummy, consulted w/ biomechanical engineers and stuntmen, to determine the veracity of Salazar's statement that Orellana accidentally fell from the balcony. A re-enactment in RN's case could have at least told them if the scrapes, abrasions, and 4 scalp hematomas could have been caused by the balcony railing, plants, wall, etc.

Other thoughts:

RN quit her job in Dec. 2010 to spend more time w/ Shacknai family and to care for his children, so she had no income. Assume that JS took care of her financially, as a boyfriend would, if she was living w/ him and had no job. Could relationship have changed in Dec. to where she was more of a nanny, less of a girlfriend?

Sources said that JS "had every intention of proposing to Rebecca." I found this an odd statement to be released to the press. IMO, sounds like something you would say in response to implications that JS was ready to move on.
JMO

The children had mothers, and the two oldest are teenagers, so I doubt Rebecca was around the children in caretaker capacity as some would have you think. But that's just my two cents.

You make a very interesting point about the balcony re-enactment. If they tried it, wouldn't they tell us about it? And if they didn't try it, why not?

 

[jjenny]

The children had mothers, and the two oldest are teenagers, so I doubt Rebecca was around the children in caretaker capacity as some would have you think. But that's just my two cents.

You make a very interesting point about the balcony re-enactment. If they tried it, wouldn't they tell us about it? And if they didn't try it, why not?

They didn't try the balcony re-enactment. At first a story appeared LE was going to do a re-enactment and then it was reported they did not because they decided to rely on forensics instead. Considering they have phenomena such as head trauma which she MIGHT have sustained while falling, I am puzzled as to why they haven't actually tried trowing a dummy from a balcony to see what kind of injuries the dummy would sustain.

 

[MyBelle]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and am trying to read all the posts, so I'm going to apologize in advance if this has already been discussed.

I think LE, in addition to the knotting demonstration, should have done re-enactments like the ones done in the Orellana-Salazar case http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/10/48hours/main540062.shtml. The detectives in this SoCal case, created a firehose dummy, consulted w/ biomechanical engineers and stuntmen, to determine the veracity of Salazar's statement that Orellana accidentally fell from the balcony. A re-enactment in RN's case could have at least told them if the scrapes, abrasions, and 4 scalp hematomas could have been caused by the balcony railing, plants, wall, etc.

Other thoughts:

RN quit her job in Dec. 2010 to spend more time w/ Shacknai family and to care for his children, so she had no income. Assume that JS took care of her financially, as a boyfriend would, if she was living w/ him and had no job. Could relationship have changed in Dec. to where she was more of a nanny, less of a girlfriend?

Sources said that JS "had every intention of proposing to Rebecca." I found this an odd statement to be released to the press. IMO, sounds like something you would say in response to implications that JS was ready to move on.
JMO

There was no witness to RN's hanging so it would be impossible to know how to re-enact it.

Tragedies often change relationships. I doubt Max's fall improved RN's relationship with JS but it is possible it improved the relationship between Max's parents.

JMO

 

[jjenny]

There was no witness to RN's hanging so it would be impossible to know how to re-enact it.

Tragedies often change relationships. I doubt Max's fall improved RN's relationship with JS but it is possible it improved the relationship between Max's parents.

JMO

Impossible to re-enact it? Please. They could get a dummy of similar size with sensors (bind its hands and feet) and then position it where the foot prints are bend it over and drop it.

 

[justice be served]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here and am trying to read all the posts, so I'm going to apologize in advance if this has already been discussed.

I think LE, in addition to the knotting demonstration, should have done re-enactments like the ones done in the Orellana-Salazar case http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/10/48hours/main540062.shtml. The detectives in this SoCal case, created a firehose dummy, consulted w/ biomechanical engineers and stuntmen, to determine the veracity of Salazar's statement that Orellana accidentally fell from the balcony. A re-enactment in RN's case could have at least told them if the scrapes, abrasions, and 4 scalp hematomas could have been caused by the balcony railing, plants, wall, etc.

Other thoughts:

RN quit her job in Dec. 2010 to spend more time w/ Shacknai family and to care for his children, so she had no income. Assume that JS took care of her financially, as a boyfriend would, if she was living w/ him and had no job. Could relationship have changed in Dec. to where she was more of a nanny, less of a girlfriend?

Sources said that JS "had every intention of proposing to Rebecca." I found this an odd statement to be released to the press. IMO, sounds like something you would say in response to implications that JS was ready to move on.
JMO

BBM
I have heard the supposed 'proposing' brought up quite a bit. Does anyone have the link on that statement? Do we know it's true?