CA-Sandra Cantu Missing/Located from Tracy, #6

[scandi]

Maybe in his haste to find something to put her in, and if
the bag was used previously by him or a family member,
just maybe something was inside that belonged to him and
he never realized it!

Mmmmm Parker, You are a hello fine Sleuther! That is soooo possible. Your other post was stellar too. Where have you been!

 

[scandi]

There was mention of a red ribbon at some point but that
hasn't been mentioned recently for some reason.

Could be that if there was one, it was used to find the luggage
easier at the airport, OR, if it is something related to the case,
the police didn't want it out.... I don't know...

I thought the red ribbon post was by a poster here who was explaining how they could easily locate their bags while traveling. I could be wrong.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I am thinking that the location where the body was found,
the fact that she had her clothes on, and being put in a garment
type bag or what have you, speaks to the mindset of the perp.

Seeing that she was just not tossed naked to the side of a road, in the woods etc tells me the person DID indeed have an obsession with Sandra and maybe in his own sick mind had some feelings for the little girl also, as
gross as that sounds, felt guilt afterwards,and took the time to dress and put her in that bag out of some twisted kind of guilt.
Also, the place he chose , he knew she would be found sooner
than later, being that it is drained. He WANTED her found!
She knew him, she trusted him; AND he knew this!!
Guilit, guilt, guilt...but he couldn't stop himself!!!

Just my thoughts...

Yah, trying to get into the mind of the criminal and working it backwards. Someone did talk about it being unusual for the type of criminal that we are looking for to not throw Sandra out of their car. I look at some of these posters who's number of posts are in the thousands and figure they know what they are talking about. So if this criminal has deviated from the norm, what does that tell us about them?

I guess looking symbolically at the water as an element of mystery, unconsciousness, wanting to cleanse Sandra and themselves of the reality of this crime. When I look at how they found Kaylee, if I knew nothing else I would think that the way Caylee was buried would point to Casey as the individual responsible for her baby's death. The sticker seemed to be a very personal touch. The fact that Sondra's flip flops may have been on with her socks as she was in the video. It wouldn't be the easiest thing to do... its hard when I try to do it with my socks and flip flops. But we don't know if she was found EXACTLY as she was dressed when she was taken, the flip flops may have been placed on her feet in a clumsy way.

I could be thinking too much about something that isn't in any way relevant to solving this crime. The water could have been a matter of opportunity, it was available and the criminal was desperate to find somewhere. It could have been familiarity, they work at or are around the farm. It could of been a matter of m.o., this is not an isolated event and the criminal always involves water in their crimes. I think that I watch way to much television. :crazy:

 

[Nora Charles]

I don't know where it started, but it was never confirmed by LE as I recall.

I thought the red ribbon post was by a poster here who was explaining how they could easily locate their bags while traveling. I could be wrong.

 

[ilovemew]

So are we thinking that there was something inside the bag and LE just kinda fibbed about that. I don't want to say lie because they should keep certain things to themselves in order to make sure a conviction is upheld. Maybe someone at the scene or one of the many people who saw the bag is also a member of that church and they recognized it (the bag I mean).

 

[wfgodot]

Nicole Lee, 18, of Tracy, who once lived there, said she baby-sat Sandra for a couple of years, until she was 7.

The second-grader loved to play, Lee said, and was very smart. Lee said Sandra loved cookies.

She said the girl and her mother were active in the Clover Road Baptist Church. The slaying has shaken the community where everyone knew each other.
(http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_12090693?source=most_viewed)

HOWEVER, SF Gate/SF Chronicle, in a later report, says....

Sandra's family - who gave no public interviews Tuesday - does not attend Clover Road Baptist Church, neighbors said.
(http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/07/MN8016UFO2.DTL)

 

[daisy.faithfull]

It took 6 men to remove bag BUT it was soaked with water, dead weight and maybe weighted down with bricks or something..........body gases can release enough to help float when water was drained........

I'm not sure if I read it correctly, or where exactly I saw it here, but weight is weight be it living or not. Gases would play a role that I hadn't thought about. A couple of years ago I saw that the Brits were showing a body decay on tv, my first thought was eww, and I still think that, but I can see how it would be valuable to be more comfortable with the nuts and bolts of the whole thing.

 

[ilovemew]

Maybe when the kids were younger they went all the time but as the kids get older (past 7) it gets harder to get them up and going and they voice their objections. I know that happens in a lot of families.

 

[parker38]

Mmmmm Parker, You are a hello fine Sleuther! That is soooo possible. Your other post was stellar too. Where have you been!

lol well, thank you scandi!! I guess I've spent most of my time
lurking as you can see!! Never really thought I had much to add!!
I've been in this 'reading crime' mode since the Westerfield case
and got hooked!!!

 

[Atanua]

The fact that Sondra's flip flops may have been on with her socks as she was in the video. It wouldn't be the easiest thing to do... its hard when I try to do it with my socks and flip flops. But we don't know if she was found EXACTLY as she was dressed when she was taken, the flip flops may have been placed on her feet in a clumsy way.

Another thing I have been considering is that if she was fully dressed, then perhaps she wasn't taken by a pedophile. Maybe hit with a car by mistake?

I know, slim chance. I can hope though that it was something fast and not intentional and someone just panicked. I know some comments on various news sites were referring to a circus being in town, someone traveling with a circus would have suitcases. Although, a suitcase then leads me to think that someone needed to conceal her to transport, which brings me back to someone in the trailer park, and probably not an accident. I can talk myself in a circle, that's for sure.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

----
Could it be that they sealed the body bag that the suitcase was put into and the bag was to be unsealed by the ME?

I'm confused because I didn't really think that there were people discussing stuff. The refresh button is my friend!

 

[parker38]

I thought the red ribbon post was by a poster here who was explaining how they could easily locate their bags while traveling. I could be wrong.

You got me there! That could very well be. I might have misunderstood
the posters. If I get a chance, I just might check back on that! lol

 

[Nora Charles]

I wouldn't have thought so before today. Maybe I'm swayed by some of the other posts I've seen today. LOL (We do have some bright people on here!) Many posters have stated that LE had to know what was inside the luggage, so if that's true I "think" it would be a possibility they would hold back other information for reasons unknown to us. I think I'd believe most anything right now my head is spinning so much. :crazy: What do you think?

So are we thinking that there was something inside the bag and LE just kinda fibbed about that. I don't want to say lie because they should keep certain things to themselves in order to make sure a conviction is upheld. Maybe someone at the scene or one of the many people who saw the bag is also a member of that church and they recognized it (the bag I mean).

 

[Salem]

Hi Parker38 - I find your post interesting and I hope you don't mind if I add some additional thoughts. I'll post my thoughts, in green, in the text of your post.

I am thinking that the location where the body was found,
the fact that she had her clothes on, and being put in a garment
type bag or what have you, speaks to the mindset of the perp.

Seeing that she was just not tossed naked to the side of a road, in the woods etc tells me the person DID indeed have an obsession with Sandra and maybe in his own sick mind had some feelings for the little girl also, or maybe just feelings for himself as
gross as that sounds, felt guilt afterwards,and took the time to dress and put her in that bag out of some twisted kind of guilt. Maybe it was guilt mixed with the knowledge that if she was found, she should look decent because the perp has so much to lose. I'm not sure I'm making sense here, but my point is, his concern was not for Sandra, but for himself. How much more horrible would it be if she was found naked along side the road, then if she was found all neat and tidy, in a container, fully dressed, apparently even with her shoes on? I mean after all - he has a reputation to protect, he can't just discard her like some kind of monster, now can he?
Also, the place he chose , he knew she would be found sooner
than later, being that it is drained. He may have thought the case would sink in the mud. He may not have known that the bottom was not just goopy mud. He WANTED her found! I've seen a couple of posters say this and I'm not sure what I think about it, personally. From what LE said, it would be reasonable to assume the perp had some knowledge of the area. Which implies to me that the perp would also know that the basin is drained occasionally. If the perp did have such knowledge, then I would agree that he wanted her found. Unless the perp was thinking she would sink in the mud. Because the basin has been described as both a drainage basin and a sludge basin - I'm not sure what the perp might have thought. If it is indeed a sludge basin - he may have been thinking mud.
She knew him, she trusted him; AND he knew this!! I think she really did know him, I'm not so sure she really trusted him. There is a look/mannerism you can pick up when watching the video when Sandra looks towards whatever it is that grabs her attention, she moves her hair behind her ear and she has a look on her face, then she briefly looks towards her house, and to me, I think she is thinking, its okay my house is right there. Thats what I pick up out of that gesture she makes - ahhh okay, I can talk to him, I'm home, its okay. I, of course, could be totally wrong about this. Other posters seemed to think she was acting exactly the opposite - okay, nobody sees me, I can go.
Guilit, guilt, guilt...but he couldn't stop himself!!! I'm with you here 100%. I think he does feel guilt. Guilt for not restraining himself, guilt for risking everything. AND I think he is now scared that he might indeed lose everything.

Just my thoughts...

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a desperate move on the part of the perp real soon. Not sure what - a confession, moving out of town, maybe even a suicide.

What else is interesting to note is that we have 2 POI's with pretty solid reputations. They have been in their jobs/businesses for 20+ years and have well established roots in the community. The other 2 I'm not so sure about. One is a hot-head and the other we have no idea about, except he doesn't live in Tracy and is related to the hot-head. Wonder what his story is?.......

I hope you don't mind my thinking through my fingers here. I really appreciate your thoughts and the opportunity to explore my own thoughts in response.

Salem

 

[Atanua]

On a side note, I have to say my hats off to the FBI and PD in Tracy. I am not seeing any of the media craving/feeding going on, the PD and FBI have seemed very focused on solving the crime, and the integrity of each potential crime scene. Shows so much more respect for the victims then having everything fed to the media. It's annoying to those of us that want to figure out what happened, but that's more how it should be. Some in Florida and other places could take a lesson, IMO.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I realize Atanua already answered your question - and it sounds like she would definitely know. I did want to add something because I've been wondering about this also. It was posted somewhere that he settled on his current name around the time he married, so I was wondering if maybe he had kind of a "bad boy" past but turned over a new leaf around the time he got married. On the bio page that was linked earlier today it listed his baptism date as being the same as his wedding date. (I've never heard of that being on the same day before so that stood out.) Maybe while people were gathered he wanted to be baptized as a demonstration of a changed life. Just a possibility...also a possibility that the website got the baptism date wrong. lol

Anyone have any ideas about the aliases?

I was thinking along similar lines... my first thought was that his name sounds like it belongs to a roller derby gal or burlesque dancer. It has the ring of it being a "stage name".

I had a friend who was Baptist when I was very young. It was very strict... no personal expression at all. Then I know someone who is a Baptist minister and is also a performance artist. Exact opposites, but both Baptists.

 

[Nora Charles]

Thanks, wfgodot. Well, that clears everything up, doesn't it?:crazy: I'm getting so confused as this goes on. I just pray they get that that did this to Sandra.

Nicole Lee, 18, of Tracy, who once lived there, said she baby-sat Sandra for a couple of years, until she was 7.

The second-grader loved to play, Lee said, and was very smart. Lee said Sandra loved cookies.

She said the girl and her mother were active in the Clover Road Baptist Church. The slaying has shaken the community where everyone knew each other.
(http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_12090693?source=most_viewed)

HOWEVER, SF Gate/SF Chronicle, in a later report, says....

Sandra's family - who gave no public interviews Tuesday - does not attend Clover Road Baptist Church, neighbors said.
(http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/04/07/MN8016UFO2.DTL)

 

[Nora Charles]

Thanks, ilovemew. That would make sense as to two versions of where they go to church.

Maybe when the kids were younger they went all the time but as the kids get older (past 7) it gets harder to get them up and going and they voice their objections. I know that happens in a lot of families.

 

[Atanua]

I wouldn't have thought so before today. Maybe I'm swayed by some of the other posts I've seen today. LOL (We do have some bright people on here!) Many posters have stated that LE had to know what was inside the luggage, so if that's true I "think" it would be a possibility they would hold back other information for reasons unknown to us. I think I'd believe most anything right now my head is spinning so much. :crazy: What do you think?

I absolutely think they are holding back, and rightly so. And I think they absolutely DID know what was in the suitcase early that day. at the least they knew there was a body in the bag. I imagine the workers unzipped it a little and had an idea what was in it to dial 911. They absolutely treated it as a crime scene from minute 1. They are very focused on the integrity of the investigation IMO. I imagine there are several details, what was in the bag, what clothes did she have, was there a purse or a backpack ( it's no shadow, you can see it move NOT in sync with her! ) I firmly believe they are holding out on a lot of information.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Agreed, it's beyond ridiculous now. It's manic. I've stopped watching. Are ratings slipping? That's probably the only thing that will jerk the producers out of their KC mania.

Hate to beat a dead horse... don't want to look for the icon, but why dies she repeat that sum up of finding Caylee every single show?