Found Alive CA - Sherri Papini, 34, Redding, 2 November 2016 - #22

[RANCH]

Something occured to me re Michigan Man. I think we all have the feeling that the police released that information for a reason. I recall posters suggesting it was to possibly increase pressure on the husband (from others to the possibly cuckolded husband) to spill the beans on any info he may have been holding back. I think that theory is quite plausible.

But something else I've wondered is if LE is releasing that information because doing so alerts other parties to the fact that they have (or are close to getting) information on the actual party or parties to blame. IOW, could that bit of information have caused someone else (not MM) to blanch at the realization that if LE knows A, they might (or may soon) know B and C as well.

Like, "Crap, if they know about that then they''ve somehow gotten access to those deleted messages. What if they've seen my messages?!" Thus putting pressure on the actual guilty party?

JUST MY OPINION and speculation ONLY.

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I always have a hard time believing that LE knows who the bad guys are and they then try to scare or trick them into doing something that will "break the case" by using some kind of subterfuge.

I think that cops usually use more standard techniques. Like gathering evidence thru interviews, forensics,search warrants and such. JMO

 

[Steleheart]

What did they want her for? Three weeks and no sexual assault/trafficking/slavery.

I'm sorry. I missed it and meant to reply. It was a theory way back having to do with the trafficking angle, but kept her, not knowing what to do with her until the fight and the supposed gunshot.
Seems like a weak theory though in retrospect.
I'm stumped, LOL

 

[RANCH]

Druggies aren’t out jogging. No go.

I haven't seen any information that Sherri abused drugs.

 

[RANCH]

I'm sorry. I missed it and meant to reply. It was a theory way back having to do with the trafficking angle, but kept her, not knowing what to do with her until the fight and the supposed gunshot.
Seems like a weak theory though in retrospect.
I'm stumped, LOL

I'm stumped too. But I'm not ready to say that Sherri is not a victim.

 

[Traymar]

Right. The repeated injuries over time are what is significant.

There are people who injure themselves horrifically but over time like that? And the weight loss?

However, to play devil's advocate, here are some bizarre cases in which women horribly injured themselves or tie themselves up in ways people believe they could not have done on their own, and all of that was staged:

"Man held after woman found raped and tortured," read the headline, and there was his name, along with a quote from a police officer: "In 19 years of police work, this has to go down as one of the most brutal attacks I have ever seen."




Minutes before Gonzalez's arrest around 2 p.m. on Feb. 1, 2008, Tim Geiges placed a frantic 911 call. By the account he would give consistently in years to come, he'd just returned from work and found his wife, Tracy West, naked and bound in an upstairs bedroom of their Simi Valley home in the 1900 block of Penngrove Street.
"Somebody tied her up, and I just got home — oh my God…" He was whimpering. "I just untied her head just now. She's crying. I need somebody, please!"

He found West, 33, in the emergency room of Simi Valley Hospital and followed her across the street to Safe Harbor, a forensic facility where sexual assault victims are examined and interviewed. Her appearance suggested an attack of concentrated malice. Her face was swollen, her lip gashed, her hair torn out in chunks. A cord, found tied around her neck with a slipknot, had left an angry red line, and there were burns on her stomach and ring finger.
Later, Del Marto would remember how she looked away and pulled herself into a fetal position as she talked. It was the body language he'd seen in dozens of sexual assault cases.
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-accused-20110626-story.html
Jemma Beale has been described as a "very convincing liar" who injured herself with barbed wire to back up one of her claims.
Jemma Beale was branded a "very convincing liar" as she was sentenced for four counts of perjury and four counts of perverting the course of justice.
The 25-year-old from Bedfont in west London had claimed she was gang raped by nine male strangers and sexually assaulted by six men in four different encounters over a three-year period.
https://www.google.com/amp/news.sky...a-beale-jailed-for-false-rape-claims-11003341
Earlier this year, Harmon ran into a Denison, Texas, church and told the people that she had been kidnapped and raped by three masked black men. At the time she was wearing only a bra, T-shirt and underwear and was bloodied and looked battered—apparently to sell her story, which successfully incited racist backlash all across social media.
http://www.theroot.com/white-woman-who-lied-about-being-kidnapped-raped-by-3-1797302783

Wow. It is actually quite disheartening to realize the lengths to which some people feel they must go in order to protect an image of themselves or to preserve a relationship with the people they should feel safest with in the world. That they don't feel safe or secure enough to turn to those people and admit they screwed up, did a terrible thing, let them down, etc. is really heartbreaking.

I do believe that it is possible that SP (or anyone) could be desperate enough to resort to self harm even to this degree. I think it's statistically unlikely, but I do not know SP and cannot say whether I believe it likely or unlikely of her.

I do wonder whether LE will or would clear SP as they have cleared others (KP, MM). They have said they believe her, but have they said that she did not and/or could not have caused these injuries herself? Because I, too, believe she has suffered, that she is or was tortured, and that she has experienced profound pain. But did some other someone assault and bind her? That, I do not know.

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[TTF14]

Something occured to me re Michigan Man. I think we all have the feeling that the police released that information for a reason. I recall posters suggesting it was to possibly increase pressure on the husband (from others to the possibly cuckolded husband) to spill the beans on any info he may have been holding back. I think that theory is quite plausible.

But something else I've wondered is if LE is releasing that information because doing so alerts other parties to the fact that they have (or are close to getting) information on the actual party or parties to blame. IOW, could that bit of information have caused someone else (not MM) to blanch at the realization that if LE knows A, they might (or may soon) know B and C as well.

Like, "Crap, if they know about that then they''ve somehow gotten access to those deleted messages. What if they've seen my messages?!" Thus putting pressure on the actual guilty party?

JUST MY OPINION and speculation ONLY.

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BINGO. It is my opinion Michigan man was not the only man she was corresponding with. But he's not the one she met up with. For whatever reason, LE hasn't been able to identify another man, BUT they have some information that would identify him, which is why they have said they will be releasing more information. Getting this guy to call them before it happens....and maybe because he's married, he will do that before whatever identifying information they have gets all over the media.

 

[TTF14]

I'm sorry. I missed it and meant to reply. It was a theory way back having to do with the trafficking angle, but kept her, not knowing what to do with her until the fight and the supposed gunshot.
Seems like a weak theory though in retrospect.
I'm stumped, LOL

If she was a victim of trafficking they decided they didn't want, they would have just killed her and disposed of her.

Sex trafficking victims are not just swiped off the street in suburban neighborhoods like this, while being allowed to roll their earbuds up neatly around their phones and place them on the grass.

 

[mpnola]

Was it ever disclosed if Michigan Man was texting her once she went missing? Or did his contact stop at the same time she disappeared? Very curious about that.

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[TTF14]

Was it ever disclosed if Michigan Man was texting her once she went missing? Or did his contact stop at the same time she disappeared? Very curious about that.

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I don't believe so. But, I agree, that would be very interesting.

 

[Traymar]

I always have a hard time believing that LE knows who the bad guys are and they then try to scare or trick them into doing something that will "break the case" by using some kind of subterfuge.

I think that cops usually use more standard techniques. Like gathering evidence thru interviews, forensics,search warrants and such. JMO

Sorry, I probably didn't explain my thoughts very well. I didn't mean to imply that they know who the person is, but rather that they might possibly hope that bit of released information may cause the person to reveal themselves in some small detectable way.

What I have in mind is the type of tactic John Douglas mentions frequently in his books: that LE says or does something that will cause stress to the offender, and that over time such stress will cause him to make a mistake or otherwise show his hand. JMO, as always.

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[TTF14]

Sorry, I probably didn't explain my thoughts very well. I didn't mean to imply that they know who the person is, but rather that they might possibly hope that bit of released information may cause the person to reveal themselves in some small detectable way.

What I have in mind is the type of tactic John Douglas mentions frequently in his books: that LE says or does something that will cause stress to the offender, and that over time such stress will cause him to make a mistake or otherwise show his hand. JMO, as always.

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I agree. Like a married man who was corresponding with a married woman and doesn't want to end up on national news over it.

 

[Gardener1850]

I'm reading through the VI's posts and came across one I find very interesting in light of what we know now about the argument and gunshot SP heard prior to being released:

WS member apk4 asked:

I've been a lurker, but I have a thought. Should we also be looking out for any news stories of murders of Hispanic women in the time since Sherri returned? I wonder if maybe the woman that released her will be punished or killed.

And Lake16 answered:

Also, hello.

I think that is an excellent idea and not out of the realm of possibility. And perhaps it could be the other abductor instead. We just don't know.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ng-2-November-2016-20&p=13001320#post13001320

Lake16 seems to have implied that the other abductor, who did not release SP, may be a murder victim. This makes me wonder if Lake16 was aware of the story about the argument and the gunshot back then. Our VI also repeatedly asked us to look for similar crimes (including failed abductions) against women in certain towns: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ng-2-November-2016-20&p=12998902#post12998902

Are we allowed to sleuth murder cases (or cases of gunshot assaults that were not fatal) in the cities the VI posted? Just an idea of something that might be productive... :thinking:

 

[Traymar]

I agree. Like a married man who was corresponding with a married woman and doesn't want to end up on national news over it.

Exactly. Or someone whose job and reputation would be sorely damaged -- someone otherwise respected, admired, and trusted in his community.

Just my speculation only.

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[Tee7077]

You'd think that LE would have found texts messages or emails or Facebook messages about this though. They found the messages to the Michigan guy, so Sherri obviously wasn't doing much to hide the fact she was trying to meet up with people. If she met up with the wrong by guy and things went wrong, why haven't LE found an electronic paper trail to the guy.

There are several texting apps you can use that are untraceable

 

[Steleheart]

I'm stumped too. But I'm not ready to say that Sherri is not a victim.

Every time I think I'm on the fence about a case it's usually because I'm ignoring something.
LE is not farting around - they have a reason to think her story has credibility. LE always knows more than just the evidence - hunches, info tips, rumor.
If they had reason to not believe it they'd move on to something else.

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

Thanks for reopening the thread, Tricia. I hope you finally escaped the “attack of the killer yoghurt” and feel better.

Sorry this is so long, but I have lots of thoughts...:thinking:...and I’m just going to dump them all in one post.

At this point, the only evidence of a kidnapping is that Sherri disappeared and then reappeared injured, branded and claiming she was kidnapped and held by two women for no ransom and an apparently unknown reason.

When someone claims they are a victim of a crime, LE is obligated to believe them and proceed accordingly. I believe LE has worked very hard to find evidence to solve this case and bring the kidnappers to justice. Unfortunately, the victim has trouble remembering, the kidnappers have been elusive, there is no known motive, and no apparent reason they picked Sherri.

I believe that LE is smart enough to conduct a parallel investigation to determine whether Sherri has been truthful. So far, they haven’t come up with anything more than a few fairly minor discrepancies and a man in Michigan who wasn’t involved in the kidnapping. So they can’t prove that the kidnapping didn’t happen.

To paraphrase and quote the detective:

Despite the apparent inconsistencies, Jackson says he believes Papini was abducted.
“I was one of the interviewers initially and we are moving forward,” he says. “There is no information that would indicate that it is not true.

But again, there is no proof that she actually was kidnapped other than Sherri’s absence, her condition when found and her claim that two women took her and kept her for three weeks...and LE has to believe her. But, why was she kidnapped?

LE has ruled out sex trafficking which leaves them with many questions:

“Just on the facts that we know it doesn’t seem to be a sex trafficking or a sexual abduction in nature, and that is what we are trying to figure out: What was the purpose?” he says. “Why was she released? It is hard to keep somebody in captivity for 22 days. Why would somebody go to that length? Those are all types of questions we all have.”
http://people.com/crime/sherri-papini-dna-male-alleged-abduction/

These questions are very important and I wonder what Sherri’s answer to them is, if she knows. If I were sitting in Sherri’s living room I would ask her to at least hypothesize. I would also ask her if she has a theory about why so many people have a problem believing her account. If she has no ideas and is wondering that herself, I might share with her some of my research. (Links below)

There have been plenty of fake kidnappings. Being injured and claiming to be held by kidnappers is not in itself proof of kidnapping. In my research, I discovered that there are people who do hurt themselves severely and there are people who will pay for the experience of being kidnapped.

So even though I have no idea if Sherri is telling the truth or not (and I hope she is), there is no proof so far that she was kidnapped and there is no proof that she wasn’t. Even though there may be valid reasons to doubt her story, like LE I feel it’s only fair for me to believe her unless there is evidence that it’s a fabrication.

https://www.oddee.com/item_99021.aspx

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/anxi...derline-personality-disorder-hurt-themselves/

https://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/self-injury/self-harm-in-adults-self-injury-not-limited-to-teens/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Welcome-bizarre-world-extreme-kidnapping.html

 

[Traymar]

One more thing. I am a longtime runner. I've run through 4 pregnancies, 2 marriages, and several presidencies, haha. I have never ever ever laid my phone on the ground and curled my headphones on top of them during a run for any reason whatsoever. Not unless I was home and/or done for the time being with my run. I haven't done it to tie my shoes, to re-do my ponytail, to help someone carry something, to go the bathroom, to eat, drink, or take a Tylenol - not for any reason I can think of.

Instead, I either have an armband or waistband that holds my phone, or I would slide it into my shoe or sock, my waistband, a pocket, or my bra (screen facing away from the sweat in each case of course). I have never seen another runner put his or her phone on the ground either (unless they were sitting next to it, in which case yes).

And, although I sometimes carry my phone in my hand while running (short distances), I think most people don't. Usually you already have it secured somehow, although she might not have, of course.

As for the headphones, they would be dangling around my neck even if I had to unplug them to put my phone in my shoe. The only way I would take the headphones off and coil them up to lay them on top of my phone would be if I were through running for the day or if I were taking a significant break. It's just too much trouble to take them off and put them back on for a short break, especially if you have long hair (which I do).

Again, all of this is my opinion and experience only.

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[Gardener1850]

I recall reading that she was training to participate in a fundraiser type race.

"At the time of her disappearance, Sherri was training for the Casa Superhero Run in Redding, a 5-kilometer race to benefit abused and neglected children, with participants dressing up in superhero costumes. “Our whole family was going to dress up and run in it,” Keith told PEOPLE."


http://people.com/crime/five-things-to-know-about-sherri-papini-and-her-family/

I wonder what prompted her or inspired her to run in this particular race. It must have been something important for her to start running again to train for this race.

I wonder who else knew she was training for it and would be running alone that day.

Participating in an event for abused and neglected children seems like an honorable thing to do. JMO

Just quoting to note that the VI's post about SP's participation in the CASA race indicated SP had done this race for years:

Lake16:

I don't know much about it, but I do know she was preparing for the CASA run. Apparently it is an annual thing for her for a number of years. Her family was going to participate this year also, as were members of her extended family.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ng-2-November-2016-19&p=12996501#post12996501

In some previous threads we had some speculation SP might be a CASA volunteer and that perhaps someone who had their kids taken away by DCFS/CPS might have been upset with SP. The VI noted they were unaware if SP had any role in CASA other than running in the charity race yearly. What can we conclude about SP from her yearly participating in this race and her family joining her this year? Who knew she was training for the race again? Would anyone have a motive for preventing SP and her family from participating in the race?

 

[Stripehaven]

The only thing worse than living through a nightmare like this, would be to not be believed. To be ridiculed. So typical of our society to reduce violence against women to fabrication, and humiliation.

I don't think that's what we're doing here. And certainly all over Websleuths, many, many people are taking sexual violence cases very seriously. In this particular case, there are confusing discrepancies - so much so that the usual WS policy of being 100% victim-friendly has been waived. Since this new thread began, I am not seeing ridicule - but many here are just trying to make sense of an account that just doesn't quite make sense to them. Speaking for myself, I believe someone hurt Sherri but her account seems off to me in some ways. If she is in fact lying, I imagine she has a reason that is valid to her.

 

[RANCH]

I don't think that's what we're doing here. And certainly all over Websleuths, many, many people are taking sexual violence cases very seriously. In this particular case, there are confusing discrepancies - so much so that the usual WS policy of being 100% victim-friendly has been waived. Since this new thread began, I am not seeing ridicule - but many here are just trying to make sense of an account that just doesn't quite make sense to them. Speaking for myself, I believe someone hurt Sherri but her account seems off to me in some ways. If she is in fact lying, I imagine she has a reason that is valid to her.

I don't feel that Tricia is waiving the WS policy of being 100% victim friendly for this thread.

She's allowing members to post about discrepancies that the victim has made to LE that we know is fact via MSM.