Found Alive CA - Sherri Papini, 34, Redding, 2 November 2016 - #22

[Midge Montana]

RE: The male DNA
Maybe one of the captors was transgender?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Thanks for reopening the thread, Tricia. I hope you finally escaped the “attack of the killer yoghurt” and feel better.

Sorry this is so long, but I have lots of thoughts...:thinking:...and I’m just going to dump them all in one post.

<respectfully snipped, though insightful--thx!>


There have been plenty of fake kidnappings. Being injured and claiming to be held by kidnappers is not in itself proof of kidnapping. In my research, I discovered that there are people who do hurt themselves severely and there are people who will pay for the experience of being kidnapped.

So even though I have no idea if Sherri is telling the truth or not (and I hope she is), there is no proof so far that she was kidnapped and there is no proof that she wasn&#8217;t. Even though there may be valid reasons to doubt her story, like LE I feel it&#8217;s only fair for me to believe her unless there is evidence that it&#8217;s a fabrication.

https://www.oddee.com/item_99021.aspx

https://blogs.psychcentral.com/anxi...derline-personality-disorder-hurt-themselves/

https://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/self-injury/self-harm-in-adults-self-injury-not-limited-to-teens/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Welcome-bizarre-world-extreme-kidnapping.html

The internet is truly a source of never-ending education--thanks for that Daily Mail link. Never dreamed there was a job title known as 'professional abductor' and must confess, I'd like to take a peek at the winning resume for such a position. &#55357;&#56841;

That there is even a growing market for this company's fake abduction experience these past 10 years is the real mind-bender:

Inspired by the David Fincher movie 'The Game', Extreme Kidnapping offers clients of the deluxe top of the range experience a torture menu.

The list asks if you are happy to be slapped, water-boarded, stunned by an electric gun and even suspended from the ceiling, while kindly also enquiring if the paying customer suffers any allergies.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Welcome-bizarre-world-extreme-kidnapping.html

I wanna laugh, I wanna cry.

 

[111addict]

I'll alert this post and ask a mod. The blog post has hit MSM...

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Thank you. That is what I thought, but am not always clear on these things.

 

[Lilibet]

The internet is truly a source of never-ending education--thanks for that Daily Mail link. Never dreamed there was a job title known as 'professional abductor' and must confess, I'd like to take a peek at the winning resume for such a position. &#55357;&#56841;

That there is even a growing market for this company's fake abduction experience these past 10 years is the real mind-bender:



I wanna laugh, I wanna cry.

Yes, what a resume that would be! The company no longer provides kidnapping for private clients, but works with corporations offering &#8220;anti-kidnapping&#8221; and &#8220;kidnapping prevention&#8221; courses.

http://extremekidnapping.blogspot.com/

This sounds quite similar to the work Cameron Gamble of reverse ransom fame says he does.

http://www.redding.com/story/news/l...n-local-hostage-negotiators-methods/95044410/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-shady-hostage-negotiator-at-the-center-of-sherri-papinis-abduction

 

[111addict]

Could be a reason for putting all of the money down on the house. There are many legal loopholes protecting the equity in a home, should a homeowner be sued, have a judgement against them, or file bankruptcy. If one worried about $ being rescinded, etc, they would probably make efforts to protect it.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Lots of easier victims, lots of easier ways...

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...d-study-prosecutions-2015oct31-htmlstory.html

I haven't heard of a case where a suburban mom was kidnapped into sex trafficking. Perhaps it does happen occasionally, but statistically it's very unlikely.

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Not to mention, why would two low-level sex trafficking dealers be driving around in Sherri's neighborhood?

 

[DakotaMayi]

I didn't know about the husband expressing any kind of revulsion about her injuries. Weird. I also didn't know that something similar happened to a classmate? Could you elaborate?

Hi gitana,

I think this is what is being referred to:

"Sherri and Keith Papini's school friend Tera Smith vanished from same road 18 years ago."

 

[Steleheart]

Yes, what a resume that would be! The company no longer provides kidnapping for private clients, but works with corporations offering “anti-kidnapping” and “kidnapping prevention” courses.

http://extremekidnapping.blogspot.com/

This sounds quite similar to the work Cameron Gamble of reverse ransom fame says he does.

http://www.redding.com/story/news/l...n-local-hostage-negotiators-methods/95044410/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-shady-hostage-negotiator-at-the-center-of-sherri-papinis-abduction

It's been a year and now bells are going off.

Gamble is an anti kidnapping consultant as well. Hostage negotiator, ransom expert and what-have-you. Seems to me he had a bunker for teaching/simulating a hostage situation.

Creep factor very high.

 

[Steleheart]

Hi gitana,

I think this is what is being referred to:

"Sherri and Keith Papini's school friend Tera Smith vanished from same road 18 years ago."

Yes Tera Lynn Smith, when she was 16. Dissapeared while jogging and never found .
But from 1998 I don't see the "eerily similar" part.
http://nypost.com/2016/12/07/joggers-abduction-case-eerily-similar-to-classmates-disappearance/

JMO

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Sure, SP may have been mistaken about cutting her foot. But my question is, why would LE choose to release that information, when they know that people will seize it as a sign that SP invented or embellished her story? They chose to release that one piece of information - that SP said she cut her foot and yet the photos showed no cut. Why choose to release that information, if not to cast doubt on the story?

And why would they release the information about the Michigan man and yet refuse to say whether the relationship was romantic or not, knowing the sort of speculation that that would cause? If the text messages they found showed no evidence of a romantic relationship, why wouldn't they say so to the public?

Good post.

I can only speak for myself, here, but I'm not one to explore if she perhaps had foot pain like shin splints that caused her to say she'd cut her foot. A cut foot involves a skin puncturing that results in bleeding. Either there was evidence of a cut or there wasn't. If we try to make excuses for why she said there was a cut when a cut was not found, the best that can produce, even with pages of hypothetical spin, is the conclusion that she is perhaps somewhat histrionic. Not helping her case, in other words.

I think LE is still vitally interested in solving this case no matter how it pans out, especially given the degree of time and money and public trust it has entailed. Seems to me that's why they've said what they've said, when they've said it. JMO, IMO.

 

[Lilibet]

It's been a year and now bells are going off.

Gamble is an anti kidnapping consultant as well. Hostage negotiator, ransom expert and what-have-you. Seems to me he had a bunker for teaching/simulating a hostage situation.

Creep factor very high.

Yes, very creepy.

He also made a promo video of a simulated kidnapping using a long haired blonde.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-shady-hostage-negotiator-at-the-center-of-sherri-papinis-abduction

He was offering training as of last April. One event sounded as if it might be a simulated kidnapping, calling it “the ultimate experience in world travel.”

https://www.camerongamble.com/keynote/

If nothing else, he was an opportunist. JMO

 

[Lilibet]

After the latest information released by LE, I have to wonder how Sherri and her family feel. They can&#8217;t be happy with it because of the subtle doubt it casts on her story, so I wonder if she&#8217;s still cooperating with LE.

 

[manormuskeg]

I am pretty certain LE gave her a tox screen. I wonder what they found?

I thought it was said no drugs were found? Or am I misremembering? Anyone remember if that was ever released?

I don't remember hearing anything about drugs either way. Any announcement would have to have come from the family. The police and/or the hospital wouldn't release tox screen info on a victim. Besides, any drugs that may have been in her system could have been forced on her.

Switching gears, KP did sound odd on the 911 call but I assumed he was either talking to or texting someone else simultaneously. It came across as that sort of distraction. He did make a big deal about the amount of hair caught in the ear buds, though. That always seemed like a "proof of life" set up to me, but I'll be damned if it makes anything clearer.

 

[natsound]

After the latest information released by LE, I have to wonder how Sherri and her family feel. They can&#8217;t be happy with it because of the subtle doubt it casts on her story, so I wonder if she&#8217;s still cooperating with LE.

It's truth though. If SP and her family are angry at the truth, hopefully they're giving careful thought to their options: they can stonewall LE and risk a case with no resolution, or publicly refute statements from LE and give their own account of what happened. I'd be happy to hear what they have to say.

KP seemed hopeful with the release of the new details.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Now that we can hear his 911 call I would like to hear what the folks who do statement analysis think of this.

:seeya: I have already checked out one of the statement analysis that was done on KP's 9-1-1 call because "S.A." one of my favorite subjects. However, we are not allowed to link the site here at WS.

I have not had time to do my own analysis :floorlaugh: ... LOL

But there were some things that definitely raised my radar in the 9-1-1 call ... when I get more time, I will post some of my own opinions.


Below is the link to the 9-1-1 call as well as a transcript of the call for reference.

Link: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/25/sherri-papini-abduction-911-audio-sketches-released/


:moo:

 

[RANCH]

Trauma, PTSD, and Memory Distortion

Our current drives, biases, stereotypes, and expectations can all affect that inferential process, fundamentally distorting what we ‘remember.’ While it might be easy to accept that our memories for mundane experiences can be distorted in such a way, people have long clung to the notion that traumatic memories are different, that they are protected from any kind of memory distortion.

In fact, converging evidence demonstrates that experiences of trauma, whether a single event (e.g., a sexual assault) or a sustained stressful experience that might involve multiple trauma types (e.g., experiences at war) are also vulnerable to memory distortion. In fact, traumatic memory distortion appears to follow a particular pattern: people tend to remember experiencing even more trauma than they actually did. This usually translates into greater severity of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) symptoms over time, as the remembered trauma “grows.” (For research articles documenting this, see the references cited in this post.)

BBM

Interesting article on how trauma can distort a persons memory. Perhaps this can explain Sherri's false memory of her foot being cut.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beastly-behavior/201605/trauma-ptsd-and-memory-distortion

 

[bwill24]

One more thing. I am a longtime runner. I've run through 4 pregnancies, 2 marriages, and several presidencies, haha. I have never ever ever laid my phone on the ground and curled my headphones on top of them during a run for any reason whatsoever. Not unless I was home and/or done for the time being with my run. I haven't done it to tie my shoes, to re-do my ponytail, to help someone carry something, to go the bathroom, to eat, drink, or take a Tylenol - not for any reason I can think of.

Instead, I either have an armband or waistband that holds my phone, or I would slide it into my shoe or sock, my waistband, a pocket, or my bra (screen facing away from the sweat in each case of course). I have never seen another runner put his or her phone on the ground either (unless they were sitting next to it, in which case yes).

And, although I sometimes carry my phone in my hand while running (short distances), I think most people don't. Usually you already have it secured somehow, although she might not have, of course.

As for the headphones, they would be dangling around my neck even if I had to unplug them to put my phone in my shoe. The only way I would take the headphones off and coil them up to lay them on top of my phone would be if I were through running for the day or if I were taking a significant break. It's just too much trouble to take them off and put them back on for a short break, especially if you have long hair (which I do).

Again, all of this is my opinion and experience only.

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I'm also a runner and agree it would be strange, in most cases. I did, actually, do it recently while running. I always run with my phone in my hand, for a few different reasons. Mostly to watch the timer as I training but also because it helps me not to clench my fists/back. Maybe doesn't make sense but it works for me. Anyway, I was running recently and two sweet older women were pushing their bikes up a hill off of the trail. I could see them struggling so I sat my phone and headphones down (safely but not necessarily neatly or coiled up) and helped them push their bikes up.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article180824671.html

"In a December 2003 incident report filed with the Shasta County Sheriff&#8217;s Office, Papini&#8217;s mother, Loretta Graeff, alleged her daughter had hurt herself and blamed the injuries on her. The report is only two sentences long. It doesn&#8217;t say whether the department found evidence that Papini &#8211; then 21 years old &#8211; had in fact harmed herself.

The call by Loretta Graeff was one of several made to law enforcement by members of Papini&#8217;s family between 2000 and 2003. In 2000, her father, Richard Graeff, alleged his daughter burglarized his residence. Three years later, he alleged she made unauthorized withdrawals from his checking account. In 2000, her sister, Sheila Koester, alleged her back door had been kicked in and she believed Papini was the suspect. The reports provide no details about arrests. Detectives did not respond to questions about whether Papini had ever been charged with a crime."

Prior reports suggest SP has hurt herself in the past and blamed it on someone else.
Does this lend more credence to a theory that SP harmed herself while she was missing?
Maybe just enough mental instability to stage something?

:seeya:

BBM: Yes, yes and yes ... these prior reports just cannot be ignored because it paints a very different picture of SP than how she was originally portrayed.

:thinking: It reminds me of the little boy who cried wolf !

:moo:

 

[Lilibet]

:seeya: I have already checked out one of the statement analysis that was done on KP's 9-1-1 call because "S.A." one of my favorite subjects. However, we are not allowed to link the site here at WS.

I have not had time to do my own analysis :floorlaugh: ... LOL

But there were some things that definitely raised my radar in the 9-1-1 call ... when I get more time, I will post some of my own opinions.


Below is the link to the 9-1-1 call as well as a transcript of the call for reference.

Link: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/25/sherri-papini-abduction-911-audio-sketches-released/


:moo:

Some oddities regarding the 911 call and transcript IMO:

Does the average 911 call start with how the caller discovered the situation they’re calling about or does the caller cut to the chase and say “My wife is missing” and then fill in the details? If I were the dispatcher I’d be tapping my foot and saying to myself “Get to the point dude.” He sounds so chipper at the beginning.

I’m interested that Keith twice said “the end of his driveway” when referring to where the find-my-phone app showed it was and where he was while calling 911, and then corrected himself to say that he was at the corner where the phone was found. I’ve lived in the rurals and there was a big difference between the end of our driveway and an intersection a half mile away. It makes me wonder why he said that twice.

I’m also interested that he took a picture of the phone, but then picked it up. Yet he stayed at the location of the phone when he called 911. Why pick up the phone if he thinks his wife has been abducted and is calling LE from its location? He could be messing up evidence. Did his photo clearly show that he found it at that intersection or could it have been found at the end of his driveway as indicated?

Also, we know the earbuds cord was coiled neatly, but he says that the phone on the ground indicates that “something happened to her.” He focuses on her strands of hair like the headphones got “ripped off, like they grabbed...” But we know that the cord was neatly coiled and it wasn’t a chunk of hair pulled out. It seems odd that his first thought was that someone harmed her and not that Sherri put her phone down carefully for some reason and forgot to pick it up. It just seems like a huge leap IMO.

He also starts to say “she’s got a whole bunch of missed...” after saying she texted him. I assume he was about to say “calls” and it would be interesting to know who had called and when the missed calls started. Were they all from the same person?

Also, he hesitates about Sherri’s eye color...says “Uh, like a...bluish...blue.” Perhaps he is distracted, but her eyes are clearly blue, so what’s with the “bluish”? My eyes are very blue and there’s no “ish” about it! Of course, some men like my husband have a touch of difficulty distinguishing shades of blue-green, but mine knows my eyes are blue. I’d be saying “What did you mean ‘bluish’ after all these years?!”

These are just things that I found odd, but don’t necessarily indicate anything deceptive. He may just be odd.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/25/sherri-papini-abduction-911-audio-sketches-released/

 

[gitana1]

So you're saying that in normal circumstances you wouldn't place your phone on the ground and curl your headphones on top.

Makes sense to me.

What doesn't make sense is that in the circumstances of a roadside abduction, her phone would've been laid down on the side of the road instead of flung.

KP was intent on LE believing that her phone indicated it was snatched from her head and that he didn't touch it before taking a photo of it. Maybe he was lying.

It is clear he wasnt involved in kidnapping SP. I don't think he knew where she was. But he seemed intent on painting a picture (although he slipped and expressed anger during the call), and I think he may have had an idea of what may have happened and wanted to protect himself and his family from the implications of that perfect family busting image.

IMO it feels like KP felt she had run off with some man. Or tried to fake a kidnapping out of anger at him or for some other reason. I think that's why he used the Find my iPhone app instead of calling her. He was trying to catch her.

I think it's possible he snatched up her phone and rifled through it immediately when he found it and then set it back down carefully and told LE that he took a picture before he had done so, because he was hiding his anger and suspiciousness. I mean a frantic husband might grab up the phone but a frantic husband would've already called and texted it by then.

I have a feeling the phone was not put on the ground like that by SP.

So true...but the branding is what keep leading me back to trafficking. Maybe these chumps decided they were going to attempt a ransom. For all we know, maybe they got one.

LE seemed pretty certain this is not connected to sex trafficking though. Even an "attempt".

I know, that was a weak theory.

But those ear buds - people keep wondering why so neat.

KP said his road is one mile long and SP was using the 2 mile round trip to train for an upcoming 5K run. This round trip would be about 10 - 15 min? (I'm not a runner.)
Is it logical when she got to the mailboxes she stopped to tie / adjust her shoes? Kneeling down putting the phone down momentarily I can see why it might be neat. Being so preoccupied she maybe didn't notice her attackers approaching. Perhaps they were watching, waiting for her.

Her phone wasn't found by the mailboxes. It was found on the side of a busy road.

Of course there are easier victims. I agree.

But women have been kidnapped off the streets before. It is pretty rare but it does happen.

It rarely happens because as you said, there are easier ways to get victims. And those victims, runaways, homeless transients, drug addicts, etc, don't have people searching for them nor have media reports of their absence.

But there are opportunity kidnappings---where someone sees someone they 'want' and have the perfect opportunity to take them.

It is rare, but it does happen.

It happens a lot. But two things happen with such women: They are murdered and dumped. They are sexually assaulted and kept prisoner or eventually let go/escape.
She was not murdered nor sexually assaulted.

Here's some links to the classmate story. I'll try to find a transcript of the husband's interview later.

http://people.com/crime/sherri-papini-missing-tera-smith-1998-disappearance-redding/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ithout-trace-parents-tell-think-happened.html

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I read about the case. I had no idea SP went to school with her! I guess I glossed past that. Weird.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article117738063.html

*I was filled with so much relief and revulsion at once.*

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Odd.

Not true about PTSD.

"Some of the avoidance symptoms include difficulty remembering the traumatic event and avoiding reminders of the experience, such as places, people and objects."

https://www.psychguides.com/guides/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-symptoms-causes-and-effects/

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There are many psychologists who still believe trauma causes memory blocks. But no actual studies show that. Here is a list of the actual studies:

Studies of over than 10,000 trauma victims found none that repressed or recovered memories of trauma. (Pope HG Jr, Oliva PS, Hudson JI. Repressed memories. The scientific status of research on repressed memories. In: FaigmanDL, Kaye DH, Saks MJ, Sanders J, eds. Science in the law: social and behavioral science issues. St. Paul, MN: West Group, 2002, pp 487-526). Similarly, some studies of thousands of abused children found no evidence at all for so-called repressed or recovered memories. Coupled with laboratory studies and other naturalistic investigations, most prominent researchers in the field agree with Harvard University's Richard McNally and consider the notion of repressed memory to be a pernicious bit of psychiatric folklore. (McNallyRJ. The science and folklore of traumatic amnesia. Clinical Psychology: Science and Practice 11:29-33, 2004).
http://schoolpsychology.blogspot.com/2007/03/there-is-no-such-thing-as-repressed.html?m=1

Here's an explanation as to how trauma can cause distortions in memory but not loss of it:

In fact, converging evidence demonstrates that experiences of trauma, whether a single event (e.g., a sexual assault) or a sustained stressful experience that might involve multiple trauma types (e.g., experiences at war) are also vulnerable to memory distortion. In fact, traumatic memory distortion appears to follow a particular pattern: people tend to remember experiencing even more trauma than they actually did. This usually translates into greater severity of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) symptoms over time, as the remembered trauma &#8220;grows.&#8221; (For research articles documenting this, see the references cited in this post.)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ps.../201605/trauma-ptsd-and-memory-distortion?amp

This is one of the studies and explains how some psychs have adhered to the "folklore" of traumatic amnesia:

Some clinical theorists believe that certain experiences are so overwhelmingly traumatic that many victims dissociate their memory for the experience (Cleaves, Smith, Butler, & Spiegel, this issue). Unfortunately, clinicians who endorse this hypothesis often exhibit confusion about the very studies they cite in support of it. For example, they often misinterpret everyday forget-fulness that develops after a trauma with an inability to remember the trauma itself; they confuse organic amnesia with traumatic amnesia; they confuse psychogenic amnesia (massive non-organic retrograde amnesia coupled with loss of personal identity) with (alleged) inability to remember a traumatic event; and they confuse not thinking about something (e.g., sexual abuse) for a long period of time with an inability to remember it (i.e., amnesia). The purpose of this commentary is to dispel some of this confusion.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1093/clipsy.bph056/abstract

One thing we haven't talked about however is head trauma. If she was battered all over her head, well that indeed causes memory loss. LE has intimated that she is too emotionally fragile to remember or talk about it. But what about the concept that she had a head injury? Why haven't they gone there if she was so battered? That would explain a lot.