Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #19 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[daisy.faithfull]

The "neatly folded clothes" ... What "if" Antolin and Sierra had met before...what "if" they had planned on meeting up that day. Wasn't Sierra the last person out of the house that morning? Teenage girls are known to change into other clothes and put on make up once they get to school if they have very strict parents who won't allow them wear certain things. What "if" after her mother left she changed out of the clothes her mother last saw her in and folded those clothes neatly so they wouldn't wrinkle and she could change back into before going home? I think it's very possible that they both knew each other and had planned to meet up that day but after she got into that car something horribly went wrong. Maybe they argued and she threaten to tell his wife and he flipped out and thats when he threw her purse and phone? Or maybe they were near the shed and got into an argument and he threw her stuff. Or ...maybe they had argued on a previous occasion and she threaten to tell his wife and he pretended to make up with her and planned to meet up with her with the sole intention of getting rid of her.

I dunno... There are so many pictures of her with make-up on, but I guess that she could have wanted to change her clothes, or maybe she had the clothes because she was going to spend the night at a friends? Is that a possibility? I could do that even though I had strict parents as long as the family was cleared.

 

[Bellazz]

Morgan Hill and San Martin are small towns and pretty much everybody knows each other there. My husband and all of his family are from MH & SM, some still live there. What I thought was odd was that on FB my husband's nieces and their friends were posting the Help Find Sierra posters and many of them went on the searches. Then when Antolin was arrested everybody suddenly went silent which I thought was very odd. Not one word was posted about Antolin or Sierra after that. My gut instinct was that they knew Antolin. So I told my husband about how strange that was and that I think his nieces might know him and he thought it was very possible that they did. Then a few days ago one of my husband's cousins calls and they start talking about the case and it turns out that the nieces and the cousins daughter all know Antolin's wife but that they all think that Antolin is guilty. Guess they are all too chicken to tell Francine what they really think although some of their friends didn't care and laid into her for bad mouthing Sierra which Francine in turn deleted then from her FB. As I said, MH is small...everybody knows everybody so sooner or later someone who knows Antolin and if they know first hand if Antolin and Sierra knew each other or if they knew she was in his car are eventually going to tell what they know. I just hope they speak up soon so the Lamar family can get some resolution!

 

[SmoothOperator]

Morgan Hill and San Martin are small towns and pretty much everybody knows each other there. My husband and all of his family are from MH & SM, some still live there. What I thought was odd was that on FB my husband's nieces and their friends were posting the Help Find Sierra posters and many of them went on the searches. Then when Antolin was arrested everybody suddenly went silent which I thought was very odd. Not one word was posted about Antolin or Sierra after that. My gut instinct was that they knew Antolin. So I told my husband about how strange that was and that I think his nieces might know him and he thought it was very possible that they did. Then a few days ago one of my husband's cousins calls and they start talking about the case and it turns out that the nieces and the cousins daughter all know Antolin's wife but that they all think that Antolin is guilty. Guess they are all too chicken to tell Francine what they really think although some of their friends didn't care and laid into her for bad mouthing Sierra which Francine in turn deleted then from her FB. As I said, MH is small...everybody knows everybody so sooner or later someone who knows Antolin and if they know first hand if Antolin and Sierra knew each other or if they knew she was in his car are eventually going to tell what they know. I just hope they speak up soon so the Lamar family can get some resolution!

Thank you for this info, bellazz .. this says alot to me that not only do many locals obviously feel that LE has got the right man.. but also in looking at as an easier way of Sierra getting in his car willingly.. if you'll recall LE after their having learned that AGTs DNA was found on her clothes it was at that point that LE started making statements of it being very possible that Sierra had willingly gotten in the car and that after that point she was held against her will.. look back thru media and any will see that LE were making these statements therefore i feel its a possibility that maybe Sierra had mutual friends or acquaintances with AGT and this could have been possibly used to help lure her willingly into the car.. he only needed the ruse of their having mutual friends to work very temporarily.. just long enough to get her in his car.. just some thoughts.. thanks for sharing bellazz.. and please let us know if you hear anymore local talk

 

[Bellazz]

Yes I will post if I hear anything more. I constantly check all the FB's to see if anyone is talking but so far nothing, the only chatter I have been seeing is on the Antolin FB pages. From what I'm told my husband's nieces and cousins only know Francine, none of them know anything about Antolin and if they do they aren't saying anything.

 

[krkrjx]

Even if Sierra got into that car willingly, once she wanted to leave and he did not let her leave, it is kidnapping. She would have known she was in trouble at least by the time he tossed her phone. If Sierra died while being held against her will it is murder no matter how she died.

It sounds as though LE has found some proof that Sierra is deceased given the DA charged AGT with murder. Is it possible that she has been found and LE kept that quiet? When the most recent search was organized LE stressed that searchers should look for all things, not just a body. They are no doubt wanting all evidence that can be found so would probably allow searches to continue as long as searchers are available and willing to go out.

I have considered all the things that LE kept quiet about or made incomplete statements about or had "no comment at this time" about. It seems unlikely that they would have found her body and kept that quiet, but in this case just about anything is possible. It seemed as though LE had nothing at all to go on and then they get crime lab results back and this guy is arrested and charged with murder! I would expect the crime lab results to lead to a positive ID of the perp and prove Sierra had been in his vehicle, but what could LE have that shows she is deceased? Probably deceased, or likely deceased, yes. But a murder charge sounds definite to me--not just probably or likely.

JMO.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Just because the phone was found 1st. Do we really know that was discarded first? Iirc no one knew Sierra was missing for at leat 7 hours.

So far as I know, LE has made no statement as to when the cell phone was dumped. However, that information should have been relatively easy to figure out by looking at the record of her phone's pings.

It's more wait-and-see.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Looking for scrap metal? In an old Jetta? Did his wife or mother work?

I would be surprised if his wife is working. Not because I think she's lazy or anything like that but just that she's 19 years old, they have a toddler and she's pregnant.

I just can't imagine a legal job that she would qualify for that would even cover the cost of daycare for one child, let alone the prospective second one.

She's so young and so in trouble. I am so sorry for her, even though her public behaviour has been obnoxious. Underneath all that bluster must have been a lot of fear.

 

[Ven]

The murder had already taken place when the clothes were neatly folded and placed in the bag, IMO.
His anxiety level must have calmed down considerably for him to do that.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Some members of his family said he was into picking up scrap metal. But that doesn't mean he actually did that. It could be something he told them he did, maybe to explain why he was gone sometimes or why he sometimes had cash so they would not question where he got it...who knows. I do believe his family thought he was doing the scrap metal thing even if he wasn't really. Either way, I do not believe he was out looking for scrap that fateful morning in March. I think he went specifically after Sierra. Perhaps he had tried to grab her before that day but was unsuccessful for whatever reason.

BBM

I've thought all along that whoever abducted Sierra had probably made several attempts that fizzled when there were farm workers in the fields nearby or other visible witnesses.

Sierra didn't realise there were multiple attempts because all that happened (from her point of view) was that a car drove by her. And in fact, seeing the same car/driver several times may have made him seem like a normal part of the neighbourhood.

While her tweets seem to indicate she may have been harassed by someone in a car, I don't think it's likely to have been AGT (assuming AGT is the guilty party, which seems likely to me). Unfortunately, it's not at all uncommon for female pedestrians to be verbally harassed from vehicles.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Morgan Hill and San Martin are small towns and pretty much everybody knows each other there. My husband and all of his family are from MH & SM, some still live there. What I thought was odd was that on FB my husband's nieces and their friends were posting the Help Find Sierra posters and many of them went on the searches. Then when Antolin was arrested everybody suddenly went silent which I thought was very odd. Not one word was posted about Antolin or Sierra after that. My gut instinct was that they knew Antolin. So I told my husband about how strange that was and that I think his nieces might know him and he thought it was very possible that they did. Then a few days ago one of my husband's cousins calls and they start talking about the case and it turns out that the nieces and the cousins daughter all know Antolin's wife but that they all think that Antolin is guilty. Guess they are all too chicken to tell Francine what they really think although some of their friends didn't care and laid into her for bad mouthing Sierra which Francine in turn deleted then from her FB. As I said, MH is small...everybody knows everybody so sooner or later someone who knows Antolin and if they know first hand if Antolin and Sierra knew each other or if they knew she was in his car are eventually going to tell what they know. I just hope they speak up soon so the Lamar family can get some resolution!

BBM

Frankly, if I knew FS (AGT's wife), I would have not the faintest idea of what I could say to her. "Gee, I'm sorry your husband is a rapist and murderer" just doesn't sound right.

Even adults can have problems with simply telling someone bereaved by a death in the family "I'm sorry and my thoughts are with you."

Although friends of AGT or FS may have information to share about any possible intersection with Sierra, I doubt they have anything to share about where Sierra's body is hidden. I could easily be wrong but my sense is that AGT was keeping a part of his life carefully secret.

I think a lot of the time AGT wanted to be the good son, husband and father. But there were times, probably during times of high emotional stress, that another part of him pushed to the surface. I think he dealt with it by keeping it secret and not even thinking (much) about it when he wasn't actively on the prowl.

 

[Ven]

Has LE looked into pinging where the suspect's phone was for the weeks before the abduction?

You'd presume that in his planning he would have planned out a place to assault her and put her body.
And would have had to drive around scoping out the area? Any out of the way places he went?

 

[DOUBTFUL]

I got the impression somewhere that Francine's mother was the source of
Daycare for the little one while she worked ?
Could be mistaken.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Has LE looked into pinging where the suspect's phone was for the weeks before the abduction?

You'd presume that in his planning he would have planned out a place to assault her and put her body.
And would have had to drive around scoping out the area? Any out of the way places he went?

Even if he did not plan it out, I wonder if it could give them an idea of places he regularly goes.

I keep hoping that info from his cell will lead them to where Sierra is. It was sometime before that led to Tori being found. But if had been planning this he might have also planned to not let that lead LE to his location. He also could have planned where to take her after the abduction, clean up the evidence, and hide Sierra. All of that would make it even harder to find Sierra.

On the other hand, it doesn't sound like he did a very good job cleaning his car, and the placement of the bag doesn't seem too planned, or if it was, it was dumb one.

 

[ozazure]

Has LE looked into pinging where the suspect's phone was for the weeks before the abduction?

You'd presume that in his planning he would have planned out a place to assault her and put her body.
And would have had to drive around scoping out the area? Any out of the way places he went?

That's an excellent point, he may well have visited places in advance, deciding where to go once he got her. And I assume if he was smart enough to turn off his phone on the actual day, that period of radio silence might stick out like a sore thumb. Maybe he was extra smart and turned off his phone every time he was out scoping, maybe not likely given the bag, but maybe the bag was on purpose, who knows.

There has actually been no mention of his phone in the media, so hopefully they have a ton of info from that. Maybe that's what is directing the searches, maybe he visited many spots and it's just a matter of which one. I've got to assume he didn't have location data for that day given the searches have been all over. How concentrated have they been since? I wonder when they got their hand on his phone. Assuming even that he has one!! Or the same one now.

Could they also have pings suggesting he stalked her? How far back are non-call related pings kept I wonder.

Someone very early on after his arrest suggested that his phone may have been "spied" on by technicians in the trailer next door if he used wifi. Wouldn't it be great if they managed to find something incriminating on his phone before he felt he was being watched? A photo would be pretty direct evidence.

Let's hope his phone, if there is one, has some compelling data.

Now whether Sierra knew him or not - ime 15yos and 21yos didn't really hang out all that much. That 6 years is a lot at that age. I dunno, I just don't see her being so naive to think that an acquaintance who is a 21yo married father driving up alongside her and offering a lift is kosher. Jessie Cate, a teenager here in Australia, got into her sister's exbf's car for a lift to avoid taking the bus in the rain and was murdered by him. I imagine Sierra would require a similar kind of relationship to trust at a minimum she wasn't getting into an awkward situation, getting on the wrong side of his wife etc.

Sierra's family and AGT's family both say they didn't know each other.

 

[LBrennanVW]

Sierra LaMar Case: What Is a Special Circumstances Charge?
http:///viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981374855

Sierra LaMar Case: What Do the Experts Think?
http:///viewArticle.action?articleId=281474981372375

 

[yodle]

I was the one who brought up intercepting his phone data in the trailer park.

As for 'pings' - are these something that are recorded? In all the other cases I've heard of where people got caught because of their phones, it was because they stupidly made a call to someone saying, 'Oh, I'm here...' when they were actually miles away and the call went through a different cell tower. I know you can FIND a phone from the pings - how is that done? I don't know that it can be done retroactively.

However, if it can, like I also said earlier, it would be very interesting to track both of them for a while and see how many times they were in close proximity. How many days were there between the famous "Lucky" tweet and the day she disappeared? Maybe this wasn't the first time she'd spoken to him, so she did get into the car willingly. Maybe he'd driven by and teased her a few times and she wasn't afraid of him.

Because I would think that tasering a person on the street at 7:30 in the morning would be pretty risky business too.

 

[Fashionista_Gal]

That's an excellent point, he may well have visited places in advance, deciding where to go once he got her. And I assume if he was smart enough to turn off his phone on the actual day, that period of radio silence might stick out like a sore thumb. Maybe he was extra smart and turned off his phone every time he was out scoping, maybe not likely given the bag, but maybe the bag was on purpose, who knows.

There has actually been no mention of his phone in the media, so hopefully they have a ton of info from that. Maybe that's what is directing the searches, maybe he visited many spots and it's just a matter of which one. I've got to assume he didn't have location data for that day given the searches have been all over. How concentrated have they been since? I wonder when they got their hand on his phone. Assuming even that he has one!! Or the same one now.

Could they also have pings suggesting he stalked her? How far back are non-call related pings kept I wonder.

Someone very early on after his arrest suggested that his phone may have been "spied" on by technicians in the trailer next door if he used wifi. Wouldn't it be great if they managed to find something incriminating on his phone before he felt he was being watched? A photo would be pretty direct evidence.

Let's hope his phone, if there is one, has some compelling data.

Now whether Sierra knew him or not - ime 15yos and 21yos didn't really hang out all that much. That 6 years is a lot at that age. I dunno, I just don't see her being so naive to think that an acquaintance who is a 21yo married father driving up alongside her and offering a lift is kosher. Jessie Cate, a teenager here in Australia, got into her sister's exbf's car for a lift to avoid taking the bus in the rain and was murdered by him. I imagine Sierra would require a similar kind of relationship to trust at a minimum she wasn't getting into an awkward situation, getting on the wrong side of his wife etc.

Sierra's family and AGT's family both say they didn't know each other.

Wouldn't it be so interesting if they have pings of him in the area that would go along with her tweets complaining that she kept seeing some car outside her house?

And I agree about them not knowing each other. If someone drove up next to me and said, "oh, hey, I'm friends with so-and-so, can I give you a lift?" Even as a teen, I would not get into that car.

Now let's say that they met briefly at a party or something, she may not have known he was married. If he was a creep and was trying to pick up girls, he probably wouldn't mention that he was with someone and had a child and another on the way. But, again, I agree with you, I think they would have had to at least spent a long time talking or would have had to have met more than once AT LEAST for her to be comfortable getting into his car. Sierra did not live in a busy little neighborhood. There aren't a ton of houses on her street and they seem spread out based on the maps I've seen. I wonder how much traffic was usually on her street. If not much, then I would be even more weirded out that some guy just so happened to be driving on my street as I was leaving for the bus that early in the morning. I guess it would depend on how trusting and naive Sierra was, which we don't really know. If she did get in the car willingly, I think it turned sour almost immediately.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Lt. Dan Rodriguez – another member of the dive team – said divers were determine to find the teenager’s body if it was dumped in the reservoir.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/divers-check-out-reservoir-sonar-scan-hits-search-/nPLbN/

Wishing lots of luck LE's way in finding Sierra today.

 

[yodle]

That has got to be the creepiest job in the world. God bless those guys.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Lt. Dan Rodriguez – another member of the dive team – said divers were determine to find the teenager’s body if it was dumped in the reservoir.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/divers-check-out-reservoir-sonar-scan-hits-search-/nPLbN/

Wishing lots of luck LE's way in finding Sierra today.

They certainly are persistent a UVAS! Merky water, feeling with hands, yes Yodle, you are right! God bless them for being persistant!

I noticed the article stated:

The waters of the reservoir have been the focus of the search since the mother of suspect Antolin Garcia-Torres told investigators her son was there the day after LaMar’s abduction on March 16th.

This older article from the same news source states:

The sheriff's department maintained it has not focused on Uvas Reservoir just because the suspect's mother said her son told her he was at Uvas around the time of sierra's disappearance

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/another-water-search-uvas-reservoir-turns-empty/nPFL2/

Take the reporting for what it's worth, but IMO they have reason to believe she is there.